mysterious oil loss....

[wobbly ollie]

Can anyone offer any suggestions on the following..?.

 

Having recently bought our first canal boat we undertook our maiden cruise this weekend moving to her new marina mooring on the K&A. The 3 cylinder Barrus Shire had been serviced prior to sale and the clean oil was well up the stick when i carried out the basic checks before we set off. (Up until this weekend we'd only run the engine occasionally to charge the batteries)

 

Despite the mist and winter temperatures we thoroughly enjoyed our 5 hour voyage, 6 locks and 4 swing bridges...Shortly after arriving we checked everything over however on lifting the engine hatch we discovered that bilge area below the engine was awash with engine oil 15mm deep. I re dipped and the level was now only just showing on the tip of the stick. Fortunately we have an oil pressure warning alarm and this I assume would have activated had we cruised much longer and lost more oil? So fingers crossed that we have no engine damage.

 

I have now cleaned out the engine bay/bilge and inspected with a torch and mirror to see if there were any obvious signs of oil escaping including checking the filter just to make sure this was fully screwed home. Nothing obvious so prior to calling out a local marine engineer I was planning on cleaning up the engine casing , re filling with oil and running the engine up for 20-30 minutes and then checking again with torch and mirror.

 

In the meantime I'd be grateful if anyone has any suggestions based on the above?

[cuthound]

Did they fully tighten the oil filter when servicing the engine?

 

Other possibilities are:

 

1. the rubber seal on the oil filter missing, or incorrectly fitted.

 

2. Does the engine have a stirrup pump fitted to drain the sump? If so there should be an isolating tap between the sump and the pump. If this has been left in the "on" position the crankcase pressure could have forced the oil out through the pump.

 

3. If the engine doesn't have a pump, is the sump plug leaking?

 

 

Check all of the above, then top up with oil, run the engine and look for leaks.

 

Edited for spillung and again for grandma.

Edited December 19, 2016 by cuthound

[mross]

Put some white kitchen paper under the engine if it's gloomy there, to help you see the location of the first drips. Or absorbent pads. I think it's unlikely that the drain plug was touched as most people would suck the oil out or use the stirrup pump.

[Paul C]

There's plenty of places oil can leak from an engine. It would help if it can be observed while running, and also if its difficult to locate, then cleaning the engine beforehand then running it would make it much easier to spot.

[wobbly ollie]

Thanks guys. Yes it does have a stirrup pump so I'll check that first. Surely no mechanic would repkace an oil filter without the rubber o ring...? Its definitely a new filter so i might check that before i refill with oil...

[BruceinSanity]

Thanks guys. Yes it does have a stirrup pump so I'll check that first. Surely no mechanic would repkace an oil filter without the rubber o ring...? Its definitely a new filter so i might check that before i refill with oil...

I've known a fitter working for a reputable recovery service do not quite that, but fail to notice that the old ring was still stuck to the filter housing.

Edited December 19, 2016 by BruceinSanity

[Cheshire cat]

Wot he said.! I have made the same mistake.

 

If the filter mounting is in a low position on the engine it is all to easy to take the filter off and the seal not come with it. In my case it was resting on the "finger" that the oil filter screws on to. The new filter goes on easily enough but old seal will prevent the new filter from screwing up fully to the block.

[dmr]

Do sort this out urgently and never rely on the oil pressure warning alarm to save the day. You might not hear it immediately if you are revving the engine hard etc and it is not a low oil level warning, its a NO pressure warning. You might have only a few seconds to avoid severe engine damage.

 

As said, clean everything up then run the engine and have a good look with a torch. Was the dipstick firmly in position??? Its too late to check now of course!

 

................Dave

[mross]

Check also the pipework to/from the oil cooler in case some clot has stood on it!

[Tony Brooks]

The seal on the filter should be oiled before fitting, if this is not done the the final tightening can stretch the seal so with engine vibration the seal loosens the filter.

 

Take special note of what Cuhound & bruin said - Yes it does happen more than you may think.

[wobbly ollie]

Based on suggestions i think I'll start with checking the oil filter. Do i need to completely pump out what oils left bearing in mind that the present measure is just on the very tip of the dipstick?

[Chewbacka]

So long as you top up with the same oil as is in there it will be ok and there is no need to pump out the rest.

[bizzard]

The sump pump may have a hydraulic type hose connecting it to the sump which is worth checking for splits and leaking. Some set ups don't have a tap on the sump pump connection but an Allan socket headed bung screwed into the pumps outlet spout instead, if so make sure its been put back. If it uses one, a thread will be seen up the spout.

 

Also check the engine breather is clear and not bunged up. If it is bunged up with sludge and blocked, oil can be blown out under pressure from various places like the dipstick tube, rear main bearing, front crankshaft pulley seal; filler cap. I'm not certain where the breather is on that engine though, but it'll have one.

Edited December 19, 2016 by bizzard

[wobbly ollie]

Yes Bizzard there is a allen bung screw. Ill obviously check thats its tight.

Naive question re the oil....I will of course use the recomended weight/ viscosity but does it need to be a specific marine brand or can i use a regular motor vehicle brand or is there a difference with marine oil...?

[David Mack]

Naive question re the oil....I will of course use the recomended weight/ viscosity but does it need to be a specific marine brand or can i use a regular motor vehicle brand or is there a difference with marine oil...?

 

There is no such thing as 'marine oil', although the prices charged by some marine outlets might lead you to think so.

 

Your engine manual should tell you what grade of oil to use, but if you don't have one, post the engine model number here, and someone will be able to tell you.

[bizzard]

The breather could be located by following a flexible tube which is usually attached to the engines air intake manifold or air filter container. The other end of the tube should lead to the breather. It may breath from a filter on the valve cover which would also be connected to the air intake manifold in some way. Modern engines consume their own crank case fumes in this way.

 

 

Sent from my super hi-tec state of the art empty sardine tin wireless device.

Edited December 19, 2016 by bizzard

[The Bagdad Boatman (waits)]

One method of fitting oil filters is to remove the whole fitting then fit the filter and replace the fitting. Done that got the tee shirt after loosing a gallon of oil via a poorly fitted filter. On a 2.5 BMC

[Flyboy]

Yes Bizzard there is a allen bung screw. Ill obviously check thats its tight.

Naive question re the oil....I will of course use the recomended weight/ viscosity but does it need to be a specific marine brand or can i use a regular motor vehicle brand or is there a difference with marine oil...?

15/40 API CD

[Tony Brooks]

One method of fitting oil filters is to remove the whole fitting then fit the filter and replace the fitting. Done that got the tee shirt after loosing a gallon of oil via a poorly fitted filter. On a 2.5 BMC

 

hardly required with a spin on filter. Once you follow the rules about making sure the old seal is off, oiling the new seal, and tightening correctly you woudl stand more chance of creating leaks where the housing bolts onto the block. I any case I bet the filter screws horizontally directly onto the side of eh block so no fitting to take off..

[Arthur Brown]

Any engine oil is better that none! Read the instructions for your engine for the maker's suggestions but running with no oil will kill the engine in seconds. Any oil is better, any oil for diesel engines is better again, OK the right amount of the right oil is best. Not every supplier will be open or have stock or supplies over the Christmas period.

 

Clean the engine, then dust with talc! This shows up leaks quickly as the white talc turns golden/black oil colour quickly.

[Chewbacka]

As the engine lost oil after an oil change the leak is probably associated with that work, so check those things first before breathers etc.

 

1) Oil extract point - with a pump as you have there may be a butterfly type tap between the pump and the sump drain point - make sure it is off. If there is no valve then there may be a 'bung' that screws into the end of the pump outlet.

 

2) Oil filter - Assuming this is the spin on type then this can have 2 sealing rings instead of one. It may have no sealing ring. It needs to be screwed on until it is hand tight, but it does need to be tight with a single sealing ring.

 

3) Dip stick not replaced or not pushed fully home - oil will blow out of the filler hole.

 

4) If you have used a heavier grade of oil than specified it may have increased the system pressure which could then cause weak hoses to fail etc.

Edited December 20, 2016 by Chewbacka

[dor]

My money is on the oil filter not fitting correctly. I've changed hundreds, but the last time I did one I nearly left the little O-ring off the central spigot. Also it is often recommended that they should be fitted "hand tight + 1/4 turn". Hand tight for some people will be a lot less than for others.

After changing the filter and running the engine for a bit, the next thing I always do is check under the oil filter for leaks.

 

It is surprising how much oil can be lost if the dipstick is left out. But then it is usually sprayed all over that side of the engine and bilge (you know how I know that...).

[Tony Brooks]

I do not think that all oil filters use an O ring around the centre spigot. As far as I know all fuel filters do. Happy to be proven wrong though. I would have someone to add an unneeded O ring because of something they read here and do some damage. If in doubt RTFM.

[Flyboy]

I agree with Tony. I have never seen a spin on oil filter with two O rings, only on fuel types. The OP has a Barrus (Yanmar) engine which definitely has a spin on oil filter with only ONE O ring & fits directly on the side of the block.

Here is a picture of a used genuine Yanmar filter. It has a single O ring and no provision of seating any other O ring.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 20, 2016 by Flyboy

[dor]

Sorry you are of course right, the O-ring is on the standard fuel filter, plus the Vetus has another fuel filter on the side of the engine which is the one I nearly left off; that is more of a rubber washer than an O-ring. But the oil filter can still easily be left a bit loose and leak.

Edited December 20, 2016 by dor