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WETWAB's not Winding Holes


Horace42

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The current CRT list of winding holes can't be completed in a meaningful way because a number of places wide and deep enough for a full-length boat to turn cannot be included because they do not officially belong to CRT - which defeats the usefulness of the list.

 

Alternatively, I think we need a list of places with length - Wide Enough To Wind A Boat - (WETWAB's) which need not be 'proper' winding holes - but room enough - eg. entrances to boatyards or marinas (maybe ignoring 'No Turning' signs or seeking permission first ) to supplement the list of official CRT winding holes.

 

 

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The current CRT list of winding holes can't be completed in a meaningful way because a number of places wide and deep enough for a full-length boat to turn cannot be included because they do not officially belong to CRT - which defeats the usefulness of the list.

 

Alternatively, I think we need a list of places with length - Wide Enough To Wind A Boat - (WETWAB's) which need not be 'proper' winding holes - but room enough - eg. entrances to boatyards or marinas (maybe ignoring 'No Turning' signs or seeking permission first ) to supplement the list of official CRT winding holes.

 

I doubt any single list could be completely meaningful because of differing boat lengths. For me and others with boats of a similar length it could be argued such a 'list' already exists in the form of a MOTIWOB (map of the inland waterways of Britain).

 

JP

Edited by Captain Pegg
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Whilst I think this is a great idea in theory I think there might be too many variables for it to work properly unless it could be updated by users.

 

For instance as we are quite deep draughted we have found a few spots over the years that look plenty wide enough yet we soon find ourselves wedged on the bottom. Mind you to be fair we've had that at "official" winding holes too!

 

If someone wanted to start a wiki with a list we could then add notes about length/depth etc it could be a useful resource.

 

Gareth

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Where I moor, a C&RT offside online, the canal widens for a bit and it is plenty wide enough to turn a boat. I've moved up a bit now from the widest bit, but it was not uncommon to see the marks of a fender rubbed down the side of the boat. What really gets me is that there is a winding hole a couple of hundred yards away, not to mention a C&RT sign saying "no turning on moorings - winding hole 200m".

 

Not to mention the lumps knocked out of the concrete wash wall.

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It would only if you can guage the maximum length boat that can turn in a WETWAB. You need a lot of boats of differing lengths and drafts to try it before you can say whether a particular boat can use it or not.

 

There is a "proper" winding hole right by our boat club but the next one is a mile away. We were told that a boat that is 50' or under can turn in a particular spot just past the moorings to save going a mile down the cut to turn. It does not even look like a winding hole - just put your nose in immediately past the willow tree we were told and yes, at 50' we can turn there easily. Recently we have turned Python (50') there too. It is not so easy with such a deep drafted boat but we will keep turning Python there and it WILL get easier for all boats 50' or under :)

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So that we may add any which we know about, could you please tell us where we can find this official list?

 

I found this page,

https://canalrivertrust.org.uk/news-and-views/blogs/boating-team/mapping-boating-facilities-and-winding-holes

 

which links to this document

https://canalrivertrust.org.uk/media/original/30246-winding-holes-surveyed-as-at-12-oct-2016.pdf

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eg. entrances to boatyards or marinas (maybe ignoring 'No Turning' signs or seeking permission first ) to supplement the list of official CRT winding holes.

 

 

 

I generally ignore such signs when I am confident I can turn without touching their banks.

 

I've been yelled at once or twice, but frankly I feel what happens in the water is none of their business.

  • Greenie 1
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I generally ignore such signs when I am confident I can turn without touching their banks.

 

I've been yelled at once or twice, but frankly I feel what happens in the water is none of their business.

sometimes it's convenient to play deaf, or in my case just to be deaf (partially). cheers.gif

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So that we may add any which we know about, could you please tell us where we can find this official list?

 

So that we may add any which we know about, could you please tell us where we can find this official list?

I am afraid I can't find it, it came to me by email (since deleted) via a CRT newsletter, and I replied, but the places I listed were not on the revised list. Anyway thanks to Richard West #7, he has found a direct link.

 

Thanks for that - great help. in my search I found an old IWA link to a survey they carried out. I don't know the outcome.of that one. I will try to find out.

 

 

Thanks. So did I, eventually. It is not ultra-informative.

...and certainly not complete...

 

Thanks. So did I, eventually. It is not ultra-informative.

...and certainly not complete...

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Where I moor, a C&RT offside online, the canal widens for a bit and it is plenty wide enough to turn a boat. I've moved up a bit now from the widest bit, but it was not uncommon to see the marks of a fender rubbed down the side of the boat. What really gets me is that there is a winding hole a couple of hundred yards away, not to mention a C&RT sign saying "no turning on moorings - winding hole 200m".

 

Not to mention the lumps knocked out of the concrete wash wall.

There must be a proviso that turning must be done safely and without trespass or damage to other boats and property.

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sometimes it's convenient to play deaf, or in my case just to be deaf (partially). i sympathise cheers.gif

I sympathise being partially deaf in the speech range myself, I rely more and more on visual means of communication (sub titles on TV essential) - but I can hear people shout and can guess what they are saying when they wave their fists at me for ignoring their private unofficial 'No Turning' signs.

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I sympathise being partially deaf in the speech range myself, I rely more and more on visual means of communication (sub titles on TV essential) - but I can hear people shout and can guess what they are saying when they wave their fists at me for ignoring their private unofficial 'No Turning' signs.

"Half past three, mate" is the correct answer in these circumstances, is it not?

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Its a good idea but I think you need to accept its always going to be incomplete, since there is such a wide variety of boat lengths and drafts out there, so that any turning space database for a (say) 70' boat has less relevance to a 57' boat, or a 55' boat, etc etc. The only way it would be complete is if you could somehow survey the entire cross sectional profile of the canals, which would be a mammoth task. So, you'd need to set some kind of constraints such as only for full length boats. But then you'd dilute its usefulness to, say 57' boaters etc etc.

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h

eir ny

 

 

 

I generally ignore such signs when I am confident I can turn without touching their banks.

 

I've been yelled at once or twice, but frankly I feel what happens in the water is none of their business.

 

 

 

I generally ignore such signs when I am confident I can turn without touching their banks.

 

I've been yelled at once or twice, but frankly I feel what happens in the water is none of their business.

That is how I feel. I would ignore them if critical to turn round, but to avoid any hassle I usually go to an official winding hole.

However, according to CRT when I checked with them, they said 'No Turning' signs, in order to have authority on CRT waters, must be identified by the official CRT logo, or worded as such.

Which to me means they can be ignored - provided it is safe to turn without trespass or damage to other boats and property.

I have no objection to signs that say 'private-keep out' or 'private property' or 'no landing', or even a rope or chain, to mark the boundaries of their property.- so apart from banning entry or access to their private property, the owner has no right to prevent you from turning your boat in CRT water if there is room and if it is it is safe to do so.

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Surely there is no authority in a "no turning" sign anyway, since they can't prevent smaller boats which could remain in the confines of the CRT water to turn. Really, the sign should say "no trespassing" or "no damaging the bank trying to turn", or something like that. Or maybe (for example) "no turning for over 55 ft boats" or something like that. And that the border needs to be clearly marked, which is impractical/impossible in many circumstances.

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It would only if you can guage the maximum length boat that can turn in a WETWAB. You need a lot of boats of differing lengths and drafts to try it before you can say whether a particular boat can use it or not.

 

There is a "proper" winding hole right by our boat club but the next one is a mile away. We were told that a boat that is 50' or under can turn in a particular spot just past the moorings to save going a mile down the cut to turn. It does not even look like a winding hole - just put your nose in immediately past the willow tree we were told and yes, at 50' we can turn there easily. Recently we have turned Python (50') there too. It is not so easy with such a deep drafted boat but we will keep turning Python there and it WILL get easier for all boats 50' or under smile.png

I assume the contributors to the WETWAB list, borrowing your example, would vouch from personal experience, as you have, such as "my boat is 50ft long with deep draught and I turned safely, but it was shallow at '*********' and a deeper draft or longer boat might have difficulty.

Other boaters using it could confirm or deny and update the list.

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Its a good idea but I think you need to accept its always going to be incomplete, since there is such a wide variety of boat lengths and drafts out there, so that any turning space database for a (say) 70' boat has less relevance to a 57' boat, or a 55' boat, etc etc. The only way it would be complete is if you could somehow survey the entire cross sectional profile of the canals, which would be a mammoth task. So, you'd need to set some kind of constraints such as only for full length boats. But then you'd dilute its usefulness to, say 57' boaters etc etc.

And it will be completely irrelevant to some who can just turn anywhere they want biggrin.png

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Surely there is no authority in a "no turning" sign anyway, since they can't prevent smaller boats which could remain in the confines of the CRT water to turn. Really, the sign should say "no trespassing" or "no damaging the bank trying to turn", or something like that. Or maybe (for example) "no turning for over 55 ft boats" or something like that. And that the border needs to be clearly marked, which is impractical/impossible in many circumstances.

It would be a problem to mark the boundary of the entrance to a boatyard or marina or boat club, some use a rope or chain.

But without a visible barrier where would the line between CRT waters and the marina be drawn officially. For instance, could a boat enter the marina a short distance without trespass because that bit is essential to make the WETWAB viable.

I suppose it depends on who is responsible for maintenance of the canal bank and dredging. I some cases the marina entrance cuts through the towpath with a bridge over but is the water under the bridge CRT's .

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It would be a problem to mark the boundary of the entrance to a boatyard or marina or boat club, some use a rope or chain.

But without a visible barrier where would the line between CRT waters and the marina be drawn officially. For instance, could a boat enter the marina a short distance without trespass because that bit is essential to make the WETWAB viable.

I suppose it depends on who is responsible for maintenance of the canal bank and dredging. I some cases the marina entrance cuts through the towpath with a bridge over but is the water under the bridge CRT's .

 

 

Yes. ALL the water belongs to CRT (on canal marinas that is). Including all the water inside filling the marina.

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It would be a problem to mark the boundary of the entrance to a boatyard or marina or boat club, some use a rope or chain.

 

I'm not sure if you meant "it wouldn't be a problem" but you've typed "it would be a problem" and I agree. It wouldn't be a problem if the boundary was a straight line and there was suitable bank to attach a chain, float, rope etc to it but its too much of an assumption to make.

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Yes. ALL the water belongs to CRT (on canal marinas that is). Including all the water inside filling the marina.

That's interesting, but what then does the marina own or lease that they think they can ban entry to licenced boats

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