Air in freshwater system

[blackrose]

Every time I turn on my bathroom sink taps they spurt and splash as pockets of air come out, the kitchen sink taps less so. The problem started a couple of months ago and seems to be getting worse. I'm going to check the accumulator pressure this weekend and the connections around the pump. There's plenty of water in the tank and I'm pretty sure I've got no leaks as the pump never cycles on its own, so where's the air coming from?

[valrene9600]

Watching this thread. Ran out of water and only problem i have now is air in hot taps.

Come on everyone help us both.

How do you bleed a hot water feed.

Edited November 11, 2016 by valrene9600

[NMEA]

If you have a leak on the tank side of the pump it will not cycle, it will pull air in though. But I would not only expect all taps to splutter but the leak would be quite noticable.

[blackrose]

If you have a leak on the tank side of the pump it will not cycle, it will pull air in though. But I would not only expect all taps to splutter but the leak would be quite noticable.

In that case I suppose the pump strainer could be leaking. Seems the most likely culprit on the tank side of the pump. I've got the entire pump assembly screwed onto a piece of ply sitting on a piece of foam underlay inside a square washing up bowl after my last (Sureflow) pump leaked all over the place. The bowl has a water level indicator sensor at the bottom and the alarm hasn't gone off, but I will check it all tomorrow.

 

Watching this thread. Ran out of water and only problem i have now is air in hot taps.

Come on everyone help us both.

How do you bleed a hot water feed.

Mine would normally just bleed if I ran the hot tap long enough.

Edited November 11, 2016 by blackrose

[cereal tiller]

Watching this thread. Ran out of water and only problem i have now is air in hot taps.

Come on everyone help us both.

How do you bleed a hot water feed.

Is your Calorifier vertical or horizontal?

 

Vertical should self purge,are you heating the water with an immersion element?

 

CT

[mross]

I had the same problem. The pressure pump was leaking and sucking in air. When off it was leaking water. Pump was under the bed and the leak had gone unnoticed. I fitted a new pump as spares to fix it cost as much as a new pump.

Edited November 11, 2016 by mross

[ditchcrawler]

In that case I suppose the pump strainer could be leaking. Seems the most likely culprit on the tank side of the pump.

They do tend to do that sometimes being only plastic

Also if the bladder in the accumulator has gone the air that was in it will have entered the system

[blackrose]

Also if the bladder in the accumulator has gone the air that was in it will have entered the system

The accumulator still seems to be working ok. If the air in it had leaked into the system I think it would be flushed out pretty quick. My problem has been happening for a while.

[ditchcrawler]

The accumulator still seems to be working ok. If the air in it had leaked into the system I think it would be flushed out pretty quick. My problem has been happening for a while.

That's one ticked off then

[valrene9600]

Is your Calorifier vertical or horizontal?

 

Vertical should self purge,are you heating the water with an immersion element?

 

CT

Horizontal. Just lately using immersion as on a electric hook up for a while. Trouble is ran out of water and all taps released air after tank re filled except the hot. Not completely air locked but enough to be a nuisance when showering.

In that case I suppose the pump strainer could be leaking. Seems the most likely culprit on the tank side of the pump. I've got the entire pump assembly screwed onto a piece of ply sitting on a piece of foam underlay inside a square washing up bowl after my last (Sureflow) pump leaked all over the place. The bowl has a water level indicator sensor at the bottom and the alarm hasn't gone off, but I will check it all tomorrow.

 

Mine would normally just bleed if I ran the hot tap long enough.

Tried running for long time.....no luck, now looking for other solutions.

[blackrose]

Horizontal. Just lately using immersion as on a electric hook up for a while. Trouble is ran out of water and all taps released air after tank re filled except the hot. Not completely air locked but enough to be a nuisance when showering.

Tried running for long time.....no luck, now looking for other solutions.

I'm not really sure how you can bleed a horizontal calorifier if there's no bleed valve on top?

[Flyboy]

I'm not really sure how you can bleed a horizontal calorifier if there's no bleed valve on top?

If the cold water inlet is at the top you should be able to bleed the air out if you tee a bleed point in there.

[cereal tiller]

Horizontal. Just lately using immersion as on a electric hook up for a while. Trouble is ran out of water and all taps released air after tank re filled except the hot. Not completely air locked but enough to be a nuisance when showering.

Tried running for long time.....no luck, now looking for other solutions.

You could try reducing the temperature on the immersion heater,they are usually just a BI-metallic switch and can get a bit lazy like Kettle ones do with age

 

Turn the Temp. down a bit and see if the problem goes

 

CT

[blackrose]

If you have a leak on the tank side of the pump it will not cycle, it will pull air in though. But I would not only expect all taps to splutter but the leak would be quite noticable.

 

I can't figure my problem out. I can see air in the strainer but no sign of any leak in the strainer or anywhere prior to the pump...

Edited November 12, 2016 by blackrose

[mross]

Is the lid/cover/bowl screwed up tightly on the filter? You seem to have a one-way leak! Air is sucked in but water does not leak out. you will have to follow the pipe all the way back to the tank looking for a loose connection. Can you check under the floor to see if there is water there?

Edited November 12, 2016 by mross

[ditchcrawler]

 

I can't figure my problem out. I can see air in the strainer but no sign of any leak in the strainer or anywhere prior to the pump...

Look for small cracks in the screw on lid possibly around the thread area.

[cereal tiller]

Every time I turn on my bathroom sink taps they spurt and splash as pockets of air come out, the kitchen sink taps less so. The problem started a couple of months ago and seems to be getting worse. I'm going to check the accumulator pressure this weekend and the connections around the pump. There's plenty of water in the tank and I'm pretty sure I've got no leaks as the pump never cycles on its own, so where's the air coming from?

Those Pumps have a Diaphragm/gasket than can allow air in when the pump is running,but not let water out when the pump is static

 

Often simply removing the cover and smearing the Gasket faces with Vaseline will solve the problem

 

CT

[ditchcrawler]

Those Pumps have a Diaphragm/gasket than can allow air in when the pump is running,but not let water out when the pump is static

 

Often simply removing the cover and smearing the Gasket faces with Vaseline will solve the problem

 

CT

I have never opened one of those pumps and then got it to work successfully afterwards,

 

But another thought, if the pump is pulling a vacuum it could drag air in just like a diesel system, so make sure the tank outlet valve hasn't been knocked half shut.

[blackrose]

Thanks for your replies.

 

The strainer still looks brand new. I bought it with the pump about 4 or 5 years ago (Jabsco Par Max 3). The strainer is about 2/3 full of water and 1/3 full of air. I can't see any cracks in the lid. Is that lid supposed to unscrew? If so it must be on bloody tightly!

 

 

Thinking about it, the air must have got in there when I drained and repainted the water tank last summer - sorry I forgot to mention that earlier! . But I would have expected the pump to clear any small pockets of trapped air on the tank side of the pump which it obviously isn't doing. Also I don't understand how a few bits of trapped air can cause my taps to spurt with air/water every time I open them? There seems to be more air coming out of the taps than can possibly be trapped on the tank side of the pump - although I obviously can't see what's in the entire line, just the strainer.

Edited November 12, 2016 by blackrose

[blackrose]

 

But another thought, if the pump is pulling a vacuum it could drag air in just like a diesel system, so make sure the tank outlet valve hasn't been knocked half shut.

 

I'm pretty sure it's not pulling a vacuum. I have a vertical clear pipe water level gauge prior to the pump (with a small bleed valve on top to prevent any air being drawn into the pump), so by opening the valve when the pump isn't running I can get an instant view of the water level in the tank. The water level goes down over the days/weeks as it should.

Edited November 12, 2016 by blackrose

[mross]

It can't be trapped air because that would work its way through the system quickly. I've run my tank to empty (deliberately) and any air was purged within ten minutes. I'm sure you are drawing air in continuously. This level gauge you have, does the level go up and down when top valve is closed?

[valrene9600]

Thanks for your replies.

 

The strainer still looks brand new. I bought it with the pump about 4 or 5 years ago (Jabsco Par Max 3). The strainer is about 2/3 full of water and 1/3 full of air. I can't see any cracks in the lid. Is that lid supposed to unscrew? If so it must be on bloody tightly!

 

 

Thinking about it, the air must have got in there when I drained and repainted the water tank last summer - sorry I forgot to mention that earlier! . But I would have expected the pump to clear any small pockets of trapped air on the tank side of the pump which it obviously isn't doing. Also I don't understand how a few bits of trapped air can cause my taps to spurt with air/water every time I open them? There seems to be more air coming out of the taps than can possibly be trapped on the tank side of the pump - although I obviously can't see what's in the entire line, just the strainer.

Same filter i have. The top does unscrew to allow access go wire mesh that catches the muck.

Suggest you take it apart and givve it all a good clean.

Wipe some vaseline around the thread of the lid makes it easy to remove next time.

[ditchcrawler]

Same filter i have. The top does unscrew to allow access go wire mesh that catches the muck.

Suggest you take it apart and givve it all a good clean.

Wipe some vaseline around the thread of the lid makes it easy to remove next time.

It might even be full of crap and restricting flow causing it to suck air in.

[blackrose]

It can't be trapped air because that would work its way through the system quickly. I've run my tank to empty (deliberately) and any air was purged within ten minutes. I'm sure you are drawing air in continuously. This level gauge you have, does the level go up and down when top valve is closed?

 

Yes. The level goes down as the pump tries to draw the water from the gauge pipe but the vacuum in the top prevents the pipe from emptying. Then when the pump stops cycling the level jumps back up. I just open the bleed valve at the top of the pipe if I want to see the true level in the tank, but I only ever do this when the pump isn't cycling.

Same filter i have. The top does unscrew to allow access go wire mesh that catches the muck.

Suggest you take it apart and givve it all a good clean.

Wipe some vaseline around the thread of the lid makes it easy to remove next time.

 

Ok thanks, I'll do that now.

It might even be full of crap and restricting flow causing it to suck air in.

 

Could be.

[mross]

 

Yes. The level goes down as the pump tries to draw the water from the gauge pipe but the vacuum in the top prevents the pipe from emptying. Then when the pump stops cycling the level jumps back up. I just open the bleed valve at the top of the pipe if I want to see the true level in the tank, but I only ever do this when the pump isn't cycling.

So the level gauge is not the source of the air leak. In fact, the air leak must be after the level gauge. If it were before the gauge, the gauge would fill with air. This supports the suggestions that the pump or filter is sucking in air. And it means you won't need to check all the pipework before the level gauge.

 

Edited to remove the 'or' between level and gauge.

Edited November 12, 2016 by mross