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Timx

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I strongly suspect that will be cheaper than buying a cheap ammeter, getting that installed plus buying a 500A shunt for it, I believe they tend to come with 100A shunts.

You suspect wrong.

 

I don't get this fixation with the BMV. They cost around £120. A 500A digital ammeter with shunt costs around £13. They each require the same effort to fit. They will give equally useful information when coupled with a Smartgauge.

 

OP has already informed us that he's been quoted £120 to fit a gauge plus batteries, so that doesn't change. It seems to me that he could use the £100 towards something far more useful.

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Are you saying that I am lying because that is how I interpret your last line?

Some would interpret it as suggesting that you are mistaken. I don't know enough about the subject to say if you are or not, but there is no shame in being mistaken.

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Some would interpret it as suggesting that you are mistaken. I don't know enough about the subject to say if you are or not, but there is no shame in being mistaken.

 

 

True. There IS however, shame in escalating things by suggesting the other party is accusing one of lying, when what they actually did was suggest one made a mistake. A childish tactic in my opinion.

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You can interpret my post how you like as you seem to have special status with some who run this site.

 

By posting your disagreements to advice you ARE recommending. You are recommending that other advice is wrong and yours is correct - in short you are recommending the OP purchases a Victron or similar and at his present state of knowledge it will do all that he needs. That is your point of view, it is not mine and not others.

 

I note that you are making not making full quotes - presumably to suit your agenda.

 

I am saying that to advocate a Victron or similar ON ITS OWN to someone who believed that when a solar controller said it was in float meant fully charged batteries is irresponsible or worse.

 

I also note that you decline to answer my question that implies that in the hands of a typical canal boater a Smartguage will eventually end up more accurate at indicating when to stop charging than the Victron and similar.

 

With reference to your last sentence I know a lot of boaters who use Victrons and the like very successfully. I have also taught a fair number of boaters how to use them and they use them very successfully and their batteries seem to be lasting quite nicely.

 

I have posted my thoughts, it is you who have turned them into recommendations. However it does seem as if you feel that anyone who believe any other than the way you do is wrong. Now from a lifetime of experience I have learnt to keep an open mind. It appears that no one may post unless those posts are in agreement with yours.

 

As for the OP being able to master a Victron or similar I think you do him a disservice and misjudge him. He may well need some guidance to start with but I get the impression that he is very capable and able.

 

As for having special status I am not aware of any such status. I am just another member who has to obey the rules as any other member does.

Some would interpret it as suggesting that you are mistaken. I don't know enough about the subject to say if you are or not, but there is no shame in being mistaken.

 

That is why I asked the question. I am quite happy to be mistaken :)

You suspect wrong.

 

I don't get this fixation with the BMV. They cost around £120. A 500A digital ammeter with shunt costs around £13. They each require the same effort to fit. They will give equally useful information when coupled with a Smartgauge.

 

OP has already informed us that he's been quoted £120 to fit a gauge plus batteries, so that doesn't change. It seems to me that he could use the £100 towards something far more useful.

 

It all depends on what the boatyard said to the OP. If it was install the batteries and a Victron with the unit being at extra cost then yes. If the unit was included in the price then no.

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It all depends on what the boatyard said to the OP. If it was install the batteries and a Victron with the unit being at extra cost then yes. If the unit was included in the price then no.

Well OP stated that the yard would fit the monitor and batteries for an extra £120. I have always understood the meaning of 'extra' to be 'in addition'. Perhaps you are aware of a different meaning.
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Some would interpret it as suggesting that you are mistaken. I don't know enough about the subject to say if you are or not, but there is no shame in being mistaken.

 

However I suggest that there is some shame in repeating the same mistake over and over again despite having it pointed out by multiple people, to the extent that you disrupt a thread with multiple random points and the subsequent attempts by others to clear up misinformation.

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Well OP stated that the yard would fit the monitor and batteries for an extra £120. I have always understood the meaning of 'extra' to be 'in addition'. Perhaps you are aware of a different meaning.

 

 

Now it is interesting that the prices for the batteries are there and the yard apparently said "and they could fit them for me along with the victor on monitor for an extra £120"

 

Now it could be I am wrong or I could be right as I posted earlier today. Only way of know is wait for the OP

 

I also note the OP says "I want to replace with like for like" Thus I assume AGMs

 

He said he can get me new AGM,s 220ah as to replace ones I already have, but he said they would be around £400 each,but agreed I could probably get them cheaper on line ,and they could fit them for me along with the victor on monitor for an extra £120 . So I know(I think there getting knackered with age (8 years) and have a plan,I will get them sorted in about three weeks,so sort of happy.Next question, I want to replace with like for like, I see these batteries for around £400 and on e bay there are some for £280, a significant difference, any advice please and recommendations of particular ones I can source.?.Thanks again your advice has really start to get my head round it.(Hopefully)

 

Edited by Geo
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Now we all acknowledge that the Smartguage can be up to 10% out when charging but even if the OP used one to know when to stop charging he would still be 90% fully charged. Can you absolutely guarantee the Victron and similar will only ever be less than 10% out with charge percentage IN THE HANDS OF A TYPICAL BOATER?

 

 

 

And let's be clear, yes the maximum error a smartgauge can have is 10% (well, actually a bit more in my experience) but that is mid-charge. Having owned a Smartgauge for 5 years now and been a keen observer of it in relation to other parameters such as current and AH deficit, I have never known it to be more than 2 or 3% out as full charge is approached. When the Smartgauge reads 100% the actual SoC will be 100% bearing in mind that is not a defined state. In other words, when the SG reads 100% the tail current will be in the range 0 to 4%, which is the same range of the various AH gauge manufacturer's default settings of 100%. So the 2 or 3% error may or may not exist depending on one's chosen definition of 100%.

 

Can one improve "accuracy" of getting to 100% SoC? Well an ammeter gives more information but it relies on the user making a good decision of what 100% SoC is in terms of tail current (or more precisely, when it is no longer worth charging any more). There is no right answer to that.

 

So, whilst a user might benefit from knowing the tail current too, a Smartgauge is a massive step up from nothing and for many people is an entirely adequate way to manage their batteries.

Edited by nicknorman
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Hi, Thanks again to for all answers, I will get a smartguage.

The engineer who looked at the batteries said,'' I will go and chat to the manager first'', and came back and said I needed new batteries as he had already identified that the first battery was knackered by looking at it being ballooned.

I wanted a couple of weeks mooring over xmas ,and then I could get it all sorted. Everything seemed ok,and it gives me 3 weeks to decide what I am getting, so I could do with reccomendations on which batteries, I do see open cell being recommended, but if AGM can work I would rather have them as its easier to a non practicle brain without experience.

Never owned a car or motorbike, never had grease or oil anywhere near me till did the service, which was good to do, and don't mind learning, but I know my limited capabilities

As the smart gauge is either call in at a couple of marinas ,or order it on line.I am too far away from from whillton marina, where they stock it, bcause there is stoppages .

So I need an address to order it to, and too far away from home. So when I spoke to the manager ,he told me new batteries, AGM's as I have currently, will be around £400. He can get me a victron meter for about £120. Which he recommended as the best.

However he will fit what ever I want. We never discussed his price on fitting the batteries, or fitting the meter. I appear to have given the wrong impression on here,I apologise,[ possibly leaving out a comma]

I do want, as maintenance free as possible, the batteries have lasted 8 years, which is reasonable, so I thought get like for like, and with a monitor,its happy days. [ I wish]

SO I will order my own batteries[whatever they will be] and smart gauge to the marina, and ask them to fit them.I already have a smartbank, wonder why they never got both.

That's probably best I can do. If I go down this route, any recommendations on AGMS and why there is such a fluctuation in price?

I respect all views, even if they differ, and thank you.

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Yes, it looks like AGMs will be your best bet from reading your post. I'll let others recommend which are best.

 

Cactus are the cheapest around for a SmartGauge. Let them know you already have a SmartBank when you order.

http://www.cactusnav.com/merlin-smartguage-battery-monitor-p-11874.html

 

Crossed with Mr OSS ;)

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Fantastic link thanks again. I will contact them tomorrow .I will look at current make of batteries in the morning, I should know sorry.

 

No problem and if you can see a model/part no for the batteries it could help

Edited by Geo
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I shall, thanks again, it makes a difference, being a bit more confident of knowing what I don't know lol,if that makes sense.[but slowly learning]

 

I think you are learning fast and well in a totally strange and new environment, having to sort things you have never done before. I think you are doing very well.

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I shall, thanks again, it makes a difference, being a bit more confident of knowing what I don't know lol,if that makes sense.[but slowly learning]

 

 

There is a LOT to get to know. Don't feel you're being slow getting to grips with batteries, you're not.

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As a non technical type of person can i simply add my experience .

I find all the " science "'fascinating & i do enjoy that it generates such keen debates on the forum .

I may well be the most similar boater to the OP in this thread in that im no scientist and my brain is very busy with other difficult studies just now so the time & effort needed to get my head around such difficult ideas is simply not available to me ... for the time being .

In the meantime my boats batteries must also be maintained like anyone elses . Without being able to dedicate the time to the learning required my attitude is one of KISS

Keep It Simple Stupid!

As so many more knowledgeable folk than me have recommended, I have a smartgauge . If you can wire a plug , you can fit a smartgauge - it really is that easy . From there my mentality is that if i want my battery capicity as to be full as possible then i think it wise to use as little as possible . Like i say - keep it simple .

Tim , if your batts are being depleted , then along with the smartgauge ( & perhaps other bits n bobs later ) , perhaps consider what you can do to lower your power consumption.

You've mentioned that you're running a fridge . For me , thats a hungry bit of equipment , switch it off even temporarily and you take pressure off the batteries .

As soon as you can manage to i would recommend you fit solar panels . In summer my boat basically runs off the sun as theres a surplus of power ( on my boat at least ) . The fridge runs all summer , l& the beer is cold .

I find , even at this time of year that solar is very worthwhile and as has been noted above , u can charge to 95 -100% using the smartgauge as guide and on bright sunny winter days the solar will contribute to topping up the last bit .

You cannot RELY on it like in summer but for me it still contributes .

 

This is what I DO on MY BOAT - its not a suggestion that its the answer to all boats for all people . But to me keeping things as simple as possible , as maintence free as possible but as beneficial as possible is the way forward .

 

Fit a smartgauge

 

fit new batts ,

 

seriously look at your power consumption - is there room for using less ?

 

Ensure that lighting uses LED bulbs

 

fit solar as soon as you can manage to do so - again consider DIY - it really is very simple . The money save on boatyard folk can be spent on the boat itself .

 

As i say , im a simpleton ( sometimes I think thats not a bad thing) so my thoughts aren t technically minded but I believe that it forces me , for now at least , to just keep things simple . Ofhers here can & will give very good advice to you as they have done for me , regarding the " science & technology " . Take heed of thier advice and your issues will get solved

 

cheers

Edited by chubby
  • Greenie 1
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As soon as you can manage to i would recommend you fit solar panels . In summer my boat basically runs off the sun as theres a surplus of power ( on my boat at least ) . The fridge runs all summer , l& the beer is cold .

 

How much solar do you have Chubby?

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Great post, Chubby :)

 

And of course the SmartGauge was designed specifically for folk such as you; someone who doesn't at present want to be concerned with volts and amps but who just wants a simple 'fuel gauge' for the batteries.

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Great post, Chubby smile.png

 

And of course the SmartGauge was designed specifically for folk such as you; someone who doesn't at present want to be concerned with volts and amps but who just wants a simple 'fuel gauge' for the batteries.

 

 

Bear in mind even the SmartGauge still contains a massive 'Gotcha' for the uneducated user if thought of in this way.

 

With the fuel gauge on my van, I know I need to get more as it approaches ZERO. With the SmartGauge, one needs to recharge the batts when the SmartGauge falls to 50%. If a user treats a SmartGauge truly like a fuel gauge and only recharges when approaching 0%, dead batteries again will be the rapid result.

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The above is very true - The 50% rule and i ought to have mentioned it in my post .

 

Jak

My boat has 400 W of panels , a 40 A Tracer Mppt controller . I cannot remember how its wired tho . I fitted it in March 14 and havent touched it since . 4 x 110 Ah batts

The only 240 v appilances are a small hoover and a twin tub washer which run off a Victron 2.5 kw inverter .& the odd blast from a hand held blender

 

12 Tv ...... in a cupboard where it belongs cos nuffin but shite on , and no computer except for my Iphone , charged via the cigarette lighter socket .

.

Just me on the boat , living a simple life

Edited by chubby
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Bear in mind even the SmartGauge still contains a massive 'Gotcha' for the uneducated user if thought of in this way.

 

With the fuel gauge on my van, I know I need to get more as it approaches ZERO. With the SmartGauge, one needs to recharge the batts when the SmartGauge falls to 50%. If a user treats a SmartGauge truly like a fuel gauge and only recharges when approaching 0%, dead batteries again will be the rapid result.

Yes indeed, it needs to be borne in mind that with bog-standard leisure batteries you should never allow the tank to become less than half full. It's a simple enough rule to follow though.

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