Tiller Sweep

[1agos]

When cruising I like to change position often as with a trad stern I soon get a cricked neck standing sideways in the hatch area. My preferred position is outside of the rear doors with the tiller under my arm and gently leaning in to or off the tiller to keep a straight course - I always use this position in the rain with doors and hatch closed to keep the missus cosy.

 

I've heard of the risk to doing this ( could sweep you into the cut if the rudder hit an underwater obstruction) but in reality has this ever happened to you or have you ever witnessed it happening to anyone else ..not just hearsay.

 

In thirty five years of boating I've never witnessed it or had it happen to me. Or know anyone it has happened to.

 

 

Andy

[Top cat]

I hit a bike mid channel approaching Chester a few years ago, it lifted the rudder out of the lower cup and forced the tiller up about 4". It didnt come up straight but went a bit to one side. I wasn't standing beside the tiller I don't know whether or not it would have chucked me off.

After that I make a point of not standing beside the tiller and I will not permit passengers to stand there either.

 

Top Cat

[alias]

 

In thirty five years of boating I've never witnessed it or had it happen to me. Or know anyone it has happened to.

 

 

 

Going through Woodseaves cutting many years ago on a hire boat the rudder was yanked across with such force that it jammed against a step on the edge of the counter. Fortunately I was out of the arc of the tiller. It took a passing good samaritan to yank on the tiller hard enough to get it released so that we could go on our way.

[Athy]

About four years ago, North of Cropredy, a lady hireboater was knocked off the boat by a swinging tiller and killed. So, yes, it does happen.

[Chertsey]

Yes, it has absolutely happened to me, at least three times. The tiller has moved so violently I've had to let go of it. Far more likely when reversing in my experience. Like Top Cat, I always stand on the step and make sure that any fellow travellers are on the gunnel well forward of the stern - and that they're on the towpath side too (bridges). This isn't just in case I hit an obstruction, but for the far more likely scenario of having to steer round a sharpish bend. Having a sensible place to stand, and using it, means that you can have a decent length tiller which makes steering easier. When I see people standing on the counter, steering with their hand half way up the tiller, or with a short tiller, it not only looks potentially dangerous, but unnecessarily hard work too. Standing in the middle on the step you can change hands and stance as often as you like, you can face to either side or dead ahead with the tiller behind your back. What's not to like?

[Neil2]

Yes - I saw it happen in Braunston locks earlier this year, the boat got thrown back against the bottom gates and the tiller whacked the helmsman off the deck. His mate grabbed him just before he went in, he was dead lucky. One guy I met admitted that he managed to literally sweep his girlfriend off her feet - and into the cut - with an emergency manoever. There's been conjecture that the poor fellow who lost his life in Harecastle tunnel may have come to grief the same way as he was sitting on a "tractor" seat at the time.

 

But 90% of the steerers of trad boats I come across either steer from the stern deck, or worse still, by standing on the gunnel. Personally I find this almost impossible, as far as I'm concerned there's only one way to pilot a trad narrowboat and that's from within the hatch. You actually have at least three different positions you can adopt, and you have something to lean on as well.

[Athy]

 

 

90% of the steerers of trad boats I come across either steer from the stern deck, or worse still, by standing on the gunnel.

In what way is standing on the gunwale "worse still"? You are outside the arc of the tiller, and as long as you're holding on with your other hand you should be fine, though of course you have to be mindful of approaching trees, bridges, swans and other menaces.

[Chertsey]

And you can haul yourself up and sit on the cabintop (although I have yet to master working the controls with my feet and I do have to get down for any but the gentlest bends).

[1agos]

I guess I've been lucky this far.. I will have to reappraise my risk assessment.

[Chertsey]

In what way is standing on the gunwale "worse still"? You are outside the arc of the tiller, and as long as you're holding on with your other hand you should be fine, though of course you have to be mindful of approaching trees, bridges, swans and other menaces.

If you're standing on one gunnel, how do you get the tiller hard over to the other side, unless you have exceptionally long (6-7'?) arms?

 

Also, the gunnel is ok for standing on if you've a hand free for the handrail, but if you're steering, you're not really very well anchored. I can't picture one hand on the tiller and one on the handrail without being a contortionist. Or facing backwards, maybe... I would imagine that swinging the tiller towards the side you're standing would tend to throw you away from a secure position too.

 

I can't imagine why anyone would want to do this. I've done it a couple of times when I've been teaching someone else to steer (don't laugh) and it's all but impossible.

Edited October 18, 2016 by Chertsey

[Athy]

No, I don't do it (or not that I've noticed), I was simply making a case for its not being "worse still" than standing within the tiller's arc (which, in my less experienced boating days, I DID do - holding the tiller over which the back rope was coiled!)

[OldGoat]

I / we sit on the cabin roof and steer from there.

I fitted two folding carriage steps inside the rear door to make it easier to get on the roof.

[Neil2]

If you're standing on one gunnel, how do you get the tiller hard over to the other side, unless you have exceptionally long (6-7'?) arms?

 

Also, the gunnel is ok for standing on if you've a hand free for the handrail, but if you're steering, you're not really very well anchored. I can't picture one hand on the tiller and one on the handrail without being a contortionist. Or facing backwards, maybe... I would imagine that swinging the tiller towards the side you're standing would tend to throw you away from a secure position too.

 

I can't imagine why anyone would want to do this. I've done it a couple of times when I've been teaching someone else to steer (don't laugh) and it's all but impossible.

 

The gunnels of most modern narrowboats are a mere 4" wide, not a suitable platform to steer a narrowboat from. Also how to you operate the throttle control from there, especially if you are hanging on to the side rail with your other hand?

 

The great thing about trads is you can easily steer and have full control of the throttle/gears simultaneously. Cruisers, and some semi trads are not quite as user friendly.

[1agos]

I do sit on the hatch slide from time to time but I soon get a numb bum. I have been meaning to make a cushioned piece to attach to the gunnel and slide but not got around to it yet. We do have an extra wide hatch so we can both get in front of the tillers arc.

[Athy]

I do sit on the hatch slide from time to time but I soon get a numb bum. I have been meaning to make a cushioned piece to attach to the gunnel and slide but not got around to it yet. We do have an extra wide hatch so we can both get in front of the tillers arc.

Mrs. Athy made just such a piece for Trojan some while ago, she sometimes perches on it 'pon the side of the hatch 'ole,and she has reported no numbness, so yes, make one - or even buy one.

[Chertsey]

Mrs. Athy made just such a piece for Trojan some while ago, she sometimes perches on it 'pon the side of the hatch 'ole,and she has reported no numbness, so yes, make one - or even buy one.

I found that a large hardback copy of the collected journalism of George Orwell admirably served this purpose on Warrior, being exactly the same height as the upstand for the slide.

[Sea Dog]

So, to pop back to the original question, what's the mechanism for the tiller to be pushed over with sufficient force to clear it's own arc when the boat is travelling forwards? When reversing or slamming backwards into a lock gate I can, of course, see.

[Chertsey]

So, to pop back to the original question, what's the mechanism for the tiller to be pushed over with sufficient force to clear it's own arc when the boat is travelling forwards? When reversing or slamming backwards into a lock gate I can, of course, see.

Steering round a sharp bend?

 

Conveivably, the foreward, balancing part of the rudder hitting something.

[Athy]

I found that a large hardback copy of the collected journalism of George Orwell admirably served this purpose on Warrior, being exactly the same height as the upstand for the slide.

1.984 inches?

Edited October 18, 2016 by Athy

[adam1uk]

But 90% of the steerers of trad boats I come across either steer from the stern deck, or worse still, by standing on the gunnel. Personally I find this almost impossible, as far as I'm concerned there's only one way to pilot a trad narrowboat and that's from within the hatch. You actually have at least three different positions you can adopt, and you have something to lean on as well.

 

Most people seem to think the counter is the place to stand. It makes me cringe every time I see it -- and even more so if they're trying to do a turn and are actually getting in their own way

 

If I was king, I'd have every counter painted with yellow cross hatches and 'no standing' signs -- until people had got the message.

 

Even more inexplicable is owners of semi-trads standing out there. They've got a whole deck to stand on, but apparently prefer to be in the wrong place.

[Neil2]

 

Most people seem to think the counter is the place to stand. It makes me cringe every time I see it -- and even more so if they're trying to do a turn and are actually getting in their own way

 

If I was king, I'd have every counter painted with yellow cross hatches and 'no standing' signs -- until people had got the message.

 

Even more inexplicable is owners of semi-trads standing out there. They've got a whole deck to stand on, but apparently prefer to be in the wrong place.

 

I think it's a fair bet that most people's first experience of steering a narrowboat will be a cruiser, most hire boats being of that configuration. So it is sort of instinctive to want to stand "on deck" rather than within the confines of the hatch. I have also heard people say they can't get used to steering with the tiller "behind them". I would advise any trad owner to persist, standing in the hatch really is a much better way for all sorts of reasons, it doesn't take too long to get used to it.

 

Some trads are more sympathetic than others to the "cruiser" method of steering it depends on the size of the stern deck.

 

I too have a home made seat with short legs on one side so that it's almost level when placed on the cambered roof. I don't use it much since someone told me sitting is the new smoking...

[Top cat]

So, to pop back to the original question, what's the mechanism for the tiller to be pushed over with sufficient force to clear it's own arc when the boat is travelling forwards? When reversing or slamming backwards into a lock gate I can, of course, see.

When I ran over the bike we were going forwards. You hit an object that rolls under the boat and hits one side of the rudder harder than the other.

 

Top Cat

[David Mack]

 

I have also heard people say they can't get used to steering with the tiller "behind them". I would advise any trad owner to persist, standing in the hatch really is a much better way for all sorts of reasons, it doesn't take too long to get used to it.

Not helped by the very high tillers some modern boats have to allow them to be higher than the high cabin. I do see some boaters looking very awkward with their steering arm twisted up behind their back.

[furnessvale]

When I ran over the bike we were going forwards. You hit an object that rolls under the boat and hits one side of the rudder harder than the other.

 

Top Cat

Or as previously mentioned, it hooks on the balance plate of the rudder.

 

George ex nb Alton retired

Not helped by the very high tillers some modern boats have to allow them to be higher than the high cabin. I do see some boaters looking very awkward with their steering arm twisted up behind their back.

The best way is to stand sideways to the tiller inside the hatches. You can then turn round as required to use the other hand from time to time.

 

The sad thing is, many so called "trad" sterns do not even have a steering step inside the hatches but drop straight inside to steps down. This only reinforces the novices' idea that standing out on the counter is correct.

 

George ex nb Alton retired

[AndyV]

I have seen a lady get thrown quite violently from the back of a trad narrowboat whilst reversing. Luckily there was someone else with her (actually standing on the other side of the tiller so it could easily have been him thrown off instead) to make sure that she didn't get run over by her own boat.

I didn't see it but a friend of mine got hit in the ribs very painfully by the tiller, though did manage to not fall in.

 

I think the worst "fad" ever to happen in narrowboating has been the plainly stupid seats on poles beside the tiller. These things are dangerous. Most of the ones I see seem far too low to steer from anyway.. perfect for getting smacked in a painful place if the rudder hits something though.