Oh Dear... (Deep Cuttings Junction)

[Captain Pegg]

 

[Sea Dog]

Oh dear indeed! Is that real, only the words look to be superimposed?

[Bunny]

Heard of walking on water but never cycling on it . Have CRT heard about boats or are they hoping to phase them out ....... would make the waterways a lot neater don't you know, no need to mend those pesky locks or dredge the canals.I wonder who cycled over there to put the signs up? Bunny.

[Captain Pegg]

It's definitely real and it looks far less intrusive from above than from towpath level if you can believe that.

[pete harrison]

I have never heard this location called 'Deep Cuttings Junction' before

[Rob-M]

It was done in readiness for the Tory Conference, been like it a few weeks now. I was going to see if I could wipe then out when winding Scorpio but thought better of it.

[dmr]

This is not quite as bad as it looks.

Cart don't own much of the towpath (or at least the adjacent walls) in Brum so this was one of the few places they could promote themselves. It required planning permission which was only granted for 30 days so as Rob.M says, it looks like it just for the Tory Conference. I suspect CaRT would probably like to extend this to a long term thing but know that something a bit more discrete/tasteful would be better.

 

.............Dave

Edited October 14, 2016 by dmr

[Captain Pegg]

I have never heard this location called 'Deep Cuttings Junction' before

That's cos you've never boated through Brum with me. ?

 

Is it Old Turn Junction then? I know it's not Farmer's Bridge Junction.

 

I believe the plaque on the side of the bridge I took the photo from says 'Deep Cuttings Junction Bridge' and it isn't new. CanalPlan has it that Deep Cuttings Junction is the junction between the Main Line and the Newhall Branch; and Old Turn Junction is the junction between the Main Line and the Oozells Street loop. Not that I am saying they are correct.

 

They are really the same place since it has all been remodeled over the years and has there ever been consistency in names?

 

JP

Edited October 14, 2016 by Captain Pegg

[pete harrison]

If it is on a plaque and written on the Internet it must be right, right !

 

I lived at Sherborne Street Wharf / Gas Street Basin for six years (1979 - 1985) and passed through here several times a week whilst working as a boatman, and I have not heard of Deep Cuttings Junction until this evening.

 

I must confess that I thought Old Turn was the bend in the canal that runs from the Oozels Street Loop towpath bridge towards Broad Street, so capturing a couple of junctions - but I am neither a canal historian or canal enthusiast so others will know much much more than me

[Captain Pegg]

If it is on a plaque and written on the Internet it must be right, right !

 

I lived at Sherborne Street Wharf / Gas Street Basin for six years (1979 - 1985) and passed through here several times a week whilst working as a boatman, and I have not heard of Deep Cuttings Junction until this evening.

 

I must confess that I thought Old Turn was the bend in the canal that runs from the Oozels Street Loop towpath bridge towards Broad Street, so capturing a couple of junctions - but I am neither a canal historian or canal enthusiast so others will know much much more than me

Well obviously not - as I alluded to - but if you want to know the name of a place where do you look?

 

I'll wait for Laurence Hogg to come and tell us. ?

 

JP

Edited October 14, 2016 by Captain Pegg

[Captain Pegg]

It was done in readiness for the Tory Conference, been like it a few weeks now. I was going to see if I could wipe then out when winding Scorpio but thought better of it.

This is not quite as bad as it looks.

Cart don't own much of the towpath (or at least the adjacent walls) in Brum so this was one of the few places they could promote themselves. It required planning permission which was only granted for 30 days so as Rob.M says, it looks like it just for the Tory Conference. I suspect CaRT would probably like to extend this to a long term thing but know that something a bit more discrete/tasteful would be better.

 

.............Dave

Cheers Gents,

 

If CRT were using it as an opportunity to lobby then good on them. Nice to know it's temporary although I was starting to think up ways it's removal could feature in return for bonus points on next years BCN Challenge. That could have been fun.

 

JP

[nbfiresprite]

Heard of walking on water but never cycling on it . Have CRT heard about boats or are they hoping to phase them out ....... would make the waterways a lot neater don't you know, no need to mend those pesky locks or dredge the canals.I wonder who cycled over there to put the signs up? Bunny.

We have these things in Ely in the summer. Maybe this is the future for C&RT.

 

[Lady Muck]

We have these things in Ely in the summer. Maybe this is the future for C&RT.

 

There was one of those things dumped unceremoniously in the bin sheds next to my mooring.

[Cheshire cat]

As DMR says it was done for the benefit of the Tories and was very localised. Every available post had a sign of some sort on it and the towpaths/ footpaths had C&RT messages about sharing the space etc painted on them. Go 400 metres in any direction from the junction and there was nothing but the usual Graffiti.

Oh and I also saw a Cart employee in a barge litter picking from the canal the day before the conference started but only from Gas Street down to the Bone and Fiddle.

[john6767]

I have never heard this location called 'Deep Cuttings Junction' before

I think that technically Deep Cuttings Junction is correct for where the B&F goes off the New Main Line (where the "roundabout" is) and Old turn is where the Oozells St Loop goes off, a few feet away. But it is usually all called Old Turn. Standing by for someone to come along as tell me that is not true!

[Captain Pegg]

As DMR says it was done for the benefit of the Tories and was very localised. Every available post had a sign of some sort on it and the towpaths/ footpaths had C&RT messages about sharing the space etc painted on them. Go 400 metres in any direction from the junction and there was nothing but the usual Graffiti.

Oh and I also saw a Cart employee in a barge litter picking from the canal the day before the conference started but only from Gas Street down to the Bone and Fiddle.

 

They can leave everything well alone outside of the section from Holliday St wharf to St Vincent street bridge thanks. The urban decay is how it naturally is and it will be worse if the gentrification spreads.

 

As for the graffiti that's all part of the scenery. Just found that Tojo the Dwarf has their (?) own thread on here. Anyone know who or what the Hula Hoop Two Kings are?

 

JP

[john6767]

As DMR says it was done for the benefit of the Tories and was very localised. Every available post had a sign of some sort on it and the towpaths/ footpaths had C&RT messages about sharing the space etc painted on them. Go 400 metres in any direction from the junction and there was nothing but the usual Graffiti.

Oh and I also saw a Cart employee in a barge litter picking from the canal the day before the conference started but only from Gas Street down to the Bone and Fiddle.

 

No doubt that some of the signage was due to the event at the IIC to attract publicity, but in terms of rubbish collection, the boat leaves Icknield Port Loop at 8am each morning to collect rubish from the water in central Birmingham. We almost wiped them out at the start of the BCN Challenge one year as we turned off the Main Line on to the loop.

[Captain Pegg]

I think that technically Deep Cuttings Junction is correct for where the B&F goes off the New Main Line (where the "roundabout" is) and Old turn is where the Oozells St Loop goes off, a few feet away. But it is usually all called Old Turn. Standing by for someone to come along as tell me that is not true!

That's essentially what I said but Mr Harrison suggests otherwise. The technicality being that the Main Line and the B&F never meet. The Newhall branch runs from Deep Cuttings Junction (new official name of the place cos we've both been there and we said so ?) to Cambrian Wharf and joins the B&F at Farmers Bridge Jn above Farmers Bridge No 1 lock. I do have a strong suspicion you actually know that.

 

JP

Edited October 14, 2016 by Captain Pegg

[Ray T]

This 1888-1913 map does not show any name!

 

 

[Captain Pegg]

This 1888-1913 map does not show any name!

 

Oozells St Wharf.JPG

We'll call it TJWNN from now on then. Mind you the canals themselves have no names on that map. It does show the Newhall branch going - unsurprisingly - to Newhall Street and the old wharf where the ATV building was that's currently being redeveloped. Also it shows the line of the railway between Suffolk Street and Holliday Street Tunnels that is now covered over by the Holiday Inn car park.

 

JP

[Captain Pegg]

The plaque on the bridge at the junction is new and actually reads-

 

DEEP CUTTING JUNCTION

BIRMINGHAM & FAZELEY CANAL

BCN

 

So it doesn't even technically have the correct canal!

 

 

Another plaque further along the wall reads;-

 

OLD TURN JUNCTION (1869)

This junction was formed when

James Brindley's contour canal

of 1769 was joined by Thomas

Telford's New Main Line in 1827

 

JP

Edited October 15, 2016 by Captain Pegg

[john6767]

That's essentially what I said but Mr Harrison suggests otherwise. The technicality being that the Main Line and the B&F never meet. The Newhall branch runs from Deep Cuttings Junction (new official name of the place cos we've both been there and we said so ?) to Cambrian Wharf and joins the B&F at Farmers Bridge Jn above Farmers Bridge No 1 lock. I do have a strong suspicion you actually know that.

 

JP

You are right about B&F I had forgotten that. So that aside are the two junction names correct?

The plaque on the bridge at the junction is new and actually reads-

 

DEEP CUTTING JUNCTION

BIRMINGHAM & FAZELEY CANAL

BCN

 

So it doesn't even technically have the correct canal!

 

 

Another plaque further along the wall reads;-

 

OLD TURN JUNCTION (1869)

This junction was formed when

James Brindley's contour canal

of 1769 was joined by Thomas

Telford's New Main Line in 1827

 

JP

So again other than the B&F bit that ties in that Deep Cuttings is where it goes of to Farmers Bridge and Old Turn really is where the loop joins

 

I wonder if this spot gets the record for the closest two canal junctions?

Edited October 15, 2016 by john6767

[1st ade]

I wonder if this spot gets the record for the closest two canal junctions?

 

Cue heated debate about how close two junctions can get before they become one four-way junction...

[Captain Pegg]

You are right about B&F I had forgotten that. So that aside are the two junction names correct? So again other than the B&F bit that ties in that Deep Cuttings is where it goes of to Farmers Bridge and Old Turn really is where the loop joins

 

I wonder if this spot gets the record for the closest two canal junctions?

I agree with you and it seems that C&RT think so as well (and they must have got the idea from somewhere). I think the question is probably whether the term Deep Cuttings Junction has any real history. I recall Laurence Hogg saying once that the name deep cuttings refers to the section from the junction to Broad Street tunnel.

 

I guess the closest junction thing comes down to a fairly dubious distinction between Deep Cuttings/Old Turn being two junctions and Rotton Park Junction (where the Icknield Port and Soho Loops join the main line) being a single crossroads (or should that be crosscanals?). Maybe folks will come up with others.

 

JP

 

ETA - beaten to the last bit by 1st Ade who decided not to labour the point!

Edited October 15, 2016 by Captain Pegg

[Rob-M]

This old thread http://www.canalworld.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=80999 called it both Old Turn and Deep Cutting but nobody appeared to question the names.