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Heard on the cut


Ray T

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Do what ladies have always done, puts their heads to one side, flash their eyes and smile sweetly. i.e. use their feminine charms at any passing bloke. smile.png

Fair point, I've done that on occasion. Well, if shouting 'Oi! Can you lean on this a minute!' counts as feminine wiles.

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You don't think it was perhaps his sense of humour, delivered with an expert dryness which went right over your head then? wink.png

He may have said it tongue-in-cheek, and in fairness he wouldn't be far off at a stop lock. However I did hear a very posh female voice on a shiny boat say "why can't we just open all the gates and go straight up" as their boat approached the bottom lock at Hurleston.

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The alpha male captain at the helm and his little woman doing all the running. I am usually on the bank talking to her - and pushing the gates that are too heavy for her - and my general impression is that she is either frightened of him or just no longer has the will to deal with him.

This is certainly the case for some people. Not all, because there's many reasons why someone might prefer to do a particular kind of job, but I have met couples where the husband has forbidden the wife to do any steering at all.

 

On the other side of the coin, I can think of several female steerers who are significantly more competent than the majority of boaters, for example Jules on Towcester. And I bet anyone who told Alice Lapworth to get off the tiller and do the locks instead would get short shrift indeed....

Edited by FadeToScarlet
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The alpha male captain at the helm and his little woman doing all the running. I am usually on the bank talking to her - and pushing the gates that are too heavy for her - and my general impression is that she is either frightened of him or just no longer has the will to deal with him. locks

I steer the boat these days because the residual effects of a stroke (mainly balance issues) make me a risk operating the locks.

 

My wife is actually a better steerer than me, at least through locks (she doesn't like 'manoeuvres' - winding, turning at junctions etc) but we have to manage with me.

 

She is 5'1" and lightly built but has no problem with gates - even Buckby - I suppose it's 40 years experience.

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Ladies and gentlemen are free to choose whatever task they wish, and do not have to justify their actions.

 

I suggest that it could be wrong to 'assume' the male is a domineering bully, as it is to assume the lady is a shrinking violet.

 

Why do we have to judge everyone?

 

My wife and I do 50/50 with locks. It is a source of amusement to us, that when I'm on the boat we get the '"see who's doing the heavy work" comments, and when she's on the boat we get the "ooh a lady steerer, not bad, you must have done that before" type comments.

 

It is what it is. No need to judge or score points.

 

Rog

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I dunno, I suspect it's often - although of course not always - at least part of the case, and I don't think it's sexist to remark on it.

 

Yes, often the woman 'doesn't want to steer' - but you have to ask why that is.

 

As it happens, I nearly always ask why this is whenever I meet a woman working the lock while the bloke steers the boat.

 

I ask because we all make assumptions and I like to test these assumptions. In the case of a woman 'doing the work while the bloke stands at the tiller' the reason given should you enquire, is, nine times out of ten, that she hates steering the boat into a lock and would far rather 'he' did it. When asked why this is, she will usually say it's because she is worried about hitting the gates and 'he' is better at judging the length of the boat so while she steers along the cut just fine, she want's 'him' to steer into locks.

 

Somehow blokes never seem to have this fear of whacking the far gates. I think it is the boaty equivalent of parking the car. Blokes seem to be hard-wired with better spacial judgement than girls as a generalisation. I have asked this question of females working the locks dozens or possibly hundreds of times and the theme I describe nearly always results.

 

Blokes have better spacial judgement, wimmin are better communicators broadly speaking. In my personal experience. Flame away!

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I was once that woman, and it took a long time, a lot of willpower, actually going out and getting training and practice on another boat, and an obsessive love of boats, for me to get over it. I've also spoken to very many other women at locks who say things like 'he doesn't trust me not to scratch his pride and joy', 'he's better at it than me' (well of course he is if he's had all the practice), 'I wouldn't dare', etc etc.

 

I am that woman now! Both of us being newbies, and wanting to 'learn the right way' we recently did a helmsman 2 day course together. Hubby got shut into the boat by the instructor, while the instructor tutored me. Instructor explained that hubby was zapping my confidence, which was a revelation to hubby as he thought he was being 'supportive'!

 

To learn we need to make our own mistakes, and we don't need a running commentary on what we should be doing. Witnessed this happening recently, the man openly cursing the woman to strangers on the towpath on how incompetent the woman at the helm was.

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I learnt by scraping my boat, misjudging stopping distances but I didn't have another to criticise..Little sis refused to handle tiller at all despite fact I was not bothered about scratches..she simply had to do all the running around.

When the guy who fitted her out helped me move boat he just left me to learn having instructed first and that was the best way. He'd sit in front and every so often his head would appear to wave some direction..what I got wrong I sorted.

When daughter "had a go" she misjudged significantly on one occasion but didn't pass any comment apart from telling her sometimes one just had to let boat do its stuff and carry on afterwards and I gave her back tiller immediately post event.

Loud or prolonged criticism destroys confidences and then you feel on trial with every mistake noted....if thats how it is no wonder women won't have a go.

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Since the advent of the Great Helmsman (Millian/Marxist) I have a great deal of empathy for the 'girlies' whom have no confidence. Not I hasten to add because I am constantly undermined but it just seems far easier to let someone else give the orders and take responsibility for our activities. It also seems to me in my new found tranquility that boating is very much a male activity and 'girlies' very often go along out of loyalty and for wont of a quiet life. As is well known I am a reluctant boater and I am in some ways of more use than I would be consantly expressing preferences.

Edited by PaddingtonBear
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Worth a repeat here, I think.......

 

When taking "Flamingo" and "Sickle" out together, we don't have any choice about being a steerer, other than who steers which.

 

On a trip out, I was leading with "Flamingo" as Cath followed with "Sickle", (it's generally easier in that order, as "Sickle" is potentially much faster, and, if leading, hard not to leave "Flamingo" behind).

 

Cath had more than one person call across to her "I see he has got you doing all the hard work making you steer the old working boat". When she explains I'm also steering an old working boat, built the same year, by the same builder, that happens to be 30 feet longer, they just look suitably confused!

 

People make a lot of assumptions. With only one boat we have on multiple occasions in the past been in a situation where one of us has had a recent injury, where steering is still fully possible, whereas working gates and paddles on a flight of locks would not be - if Cath is working the locks exclusively it has on occasions been because I could not, (and vice versa, of course).

 

Oh and it matters not whether Cath is steering or working the paddles - either way people still say to her "I see he has got the easy job, and is making you do all the work".

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You don't think it was perhaps his sense of humour, delivered with an expert dryness which went right over your head then? wink.png

I thought the same. I've often loudly proclaimed at a lock that we should just open both ends.

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As it happens, I nearly always ask why this is whenever I meet a woman working the lock while the bloke steers the boat.

 

I ask because we all make assumptions and I like to test these assumptions. In the case of a woman 'doing the work while the bloke stands at the tiller' the reason given should you enquire, is, nine times out of ten, that she hates steering the boat into a lock and would far rather 'he' did it. When asked why this is, she will usually say it's because she is worried about hitting the gates and 'he' is better at judging the length of the boat so while she steers along the cut just fine, she want's 'him' to steer into locks.

 

Somehow blokes never seem to have this fear of whacking the far gates. I think it is the boaty equivalent of parking the car. Blokes seem to be hard-wired with better spacial judgement than girls as a generalisation. I have asked this question of females working the locks dozens or possibly hundreds of times and the theme I describe nearly always results.

 

Blokes have better spacial judgement, wimmin are better communicators broadly speaking. In my personal experience. Flame away!

Possibly but people will believe what they're told to believe. It's funny how when a man clonks the lock entrance it's down to the wind, the bywash, something in their eye, etc. etc. but when a woman does the same, it's down to poor spatial awareness.

 

I find it eternally surprising just how many women 'don't like steering' but a man saying that would be a rarity.

 

We play out the gender roles which have been drummed into us since birth.

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Possibly but people will believe what they're told to believe. It's funny how when a man clonks the lock entrance it's down to the wind, the bywash, something in their eye, etc. etc. but when a woman does the same, it's down to poor spatial awareness.

 

I find it eternally surprising just how many women 'don't like steering' but a man saying that would be a rarity.

 

We play out the gender roles which have been drummed into us since birth.

 

 

Possibly, but women in general (with exceptions obviously) seem to repeatedly express to me that they can't judge the length of the boat and they fear bouncing the bow on the gates at the end. Not bumping the gates on the way IN. The stress this induces in women is something blokes never seem to experience, or never express anyway.

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But I take your point about learned gender roles.


Given this stress exists, and it spoils the pleasure of steering a boat into a lock for a proportion of women, explaining it as a 'learned gender role' doesn't make a woman experiencing it feel any better about steering a boat into a lock.

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I am that woman now! Both of us being newbies, and wanting to 'learn the right way' we recently did a helmsman 2 day course together. Hubby got shut into the boat by the instructor, while the instructor tutored me. Instructor explained that hubby was zapping my confidence, which was a revelation to hubby as he thought he was being 'supportive'!

 

To learn we need to make our own mistakes, and we don't need a running commentary on what we should be doing. Witnessed this happening recently, the man openly cursing the woman to strangers on the towpath on how incompetent the woman at the helm was.

That is exactly it. Often with no conscious ill-intention, in fact many men would fiercely deny that they were sapping their companion's confidence. But because of all sorts of social and cultural issues - and, pace MtB, assumptions about innate skills and abilities - it is all to easily done.

 

I found that my spatial awareness regarding steering into locks got better and better the more I did it, strangely :-)

 

It's all too easy to give up when things go wrong once or twice, and having someone more confident and keen to take over makes it likely to stay that way.

But I take your point about learned gender roles.

Given this stress exists, and it spoils the pleasure of steering a boat into a lock for a proportion of women, explaining it as a 'learned gender role' doesn't make a woman experiencing it feel any better about steering a boat into a lock.

No, but practising until she (I) can do it competently does.

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My wife decieded on day one it was easier to steer than to work the locks On our first trip ever we encountered ice thick enough to make going away from a straight line difficult so while I had got off at a bridge to work to locks she was having great difficulty turning into the lock mouth Yes many bumps and mistakes were made but I could do nothing to help and did not critisies at all those difficulties and having to sort them out on her own means that now after 16 yrs she can tackle most locks as good as anyone her specialality being the bywashes at the tails of the Llangollen locks which I struggle with because like some women I rarley have a go at doing it

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It's all too easy to give up when things go wrong once or twice, and having someone more confident and keen to take over makes it likely to stay that way.

 

Speaking as a male, the same often applies, in reverse, with things like cooking and child care.

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Possibly, but women in general (with exceptions obviously) seem to repeatedly express to me that they can't judge the length of the boat and they fear bouncing the bow on the gates at the end. Not bumping the gates on the way IN. The stress this induces in women is something blokes never seem to experience, or never express anyway.

I have often wondered if it is because (certainly in my day, maybe not so much now), boys played with toy cars and the girls with dolls.

 

Thus by the time they had grown up, boys understood how to park a car, having done it many times from an overhead viewpoint, hence the better spacial awareness.

 

The girls, having talked to their dolls many times over the years, had developed better communication skills and empathy with others?

 

Edited for an autowrong induced error.

Edited by cuthound
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SWMBO was a great friend of Roma Eastwood, the wife of Arthur Eastwood the boat builder in Owston Ferry. When Arthur built a boat (Seth Ellis Stevenson) for his own use in 1992 we did the paint job and a bit of the inerior fit out for them.

 

Our reward was the loan of the very new boat for a week, so we took her from West Stockwith to Boston and the navigable drains and back.

 

On arrival back into Stockwith Basin we put the boat to bed and went home. Soon the phone rang, it was Arthur...

'You're back then..I had a phone call from an old chap at Stockwith who saw you...he said 'your boat's just come back in off t'Trent...and there were a WOMAN steering!'.

 

He must have thought it was 'mens' work. In fact she's always loved steering whereas I like to potter about and do things, so perfect for us.

 

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Was going to say the same. Becky does the locks for us because she doesn't want to steer.

Ditto

:)

I dunno, I suspect it's often - although of course not always - at least part of the case, and I don't think it's sexist to remark on it.

 

Yes, often the woman 'doesn't want to steer' - but you have to ask why that is. It's very, very rare for it to be the other way round. It's more than possible that it's because she hasn't been encouraged, hasn't been allowed to develop the experience and confidence, or her confidence has taken a knock and hasn't been given the chance or encouragement to recover.

 

I was once that woman, and it took a long time, a lot of willpower, actually going out and getting training and practice on another boat, and an obsessive love of boats, for me to get over it. I've also spoken to very many other women at locks who say things like 'he doesn't trust me not to scratch his pride and joy', 'he's better at it than me' (well of course he is if he's had all the practice), 'I wouldn't dare', etc etc.

 

If a bloke has a bad experience in a lock with someone opening the paddles too fast, would we expect him to refuse ever to steer again?

 

So don't dismiss it out of hand.

You sound like my probation officer.

:)

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I dunno, I suspect it's often - although of course not always - at least part of the case, and I don't think it's sexist to remark on it.

 

Yes, often the woman 'doesn't want to steer' - but you have to ask why that is. It's very, very rare for it to be the other way round. It's more than possible that it's because she hasn't been encouraged, hasn't been allowed to develop the experience and confidence, or her confidence has taken a knock and hasn't been given the chance or encouragement to recover.

 

I was once that woman, and it took a long time, a lot of willpower, actually going out and getting training and practice on another boat, and an obsessive love of boats, for me to get over it. I've also spoken to very many other women at locks who say things like 'he doesn't trust me not to scratch his pride and joy', 'he's better at it than me' (well of course he is if he's had all the practice), 'I wouldn't dare', etc etc.

 

If a bloke has a bad experience in a lock with someone opening the paddles too fast, would we expect him to refuse ever to steer again?

 

So don't dismiss it out of hand.

Have another greeney for that. I have sometimes observed couples and got the sense that the man likes steering and won't let his wife have a go, or subtly undermines her confidence. What is marriage about if it is not supporting each other to be "the best that you can be"?

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