My Disaster of a holiday.

[stratford4528]

I spent 5 years fully refurbishing a Norman 32 to a very high standard. For my first holiday for 5 years I decided to put it on the Brecon Canal. The nearest to me. Last Sunday 2nd October I launched it at Herons Rest Marina Then proceeded to cruise to wards Brecon. At the second bridge I hit the bottom. This kept happening all the way to Ashford tunnel which I could not get through although I cleared the marker board at the entrance. Had to reverse all the way out of the tunnel. Managed to turn around to go to the other end of the canal. At one point I got a very large tree branch wedged under my boat. which took a lot of effort to remove. Going a bit further there was an almighty bang and I was stuck on the bottom. When I got moving again there was a vibration coming from my Enfield leg. I managed to raise the leg and found 2 blades had been broken off my prop. Managed to limp back to the marina my holiday ended. Drove back home Tuesday evening. The draught of my boat to the tip of the sceg is 27 inches. The canal is less than 24 inches deep in places. No one told me I would not be able to navigate this canal but quickly took my license money. Any Suggestions what I should do

[Alan de Enfield]

There are no guarantees about dredging depths these days - BW's dredging depth on the Mon & Brec was 35" but on the transfer to C&RT, this all went by the wayside.

 

The maintenance obligations were completely excluded from the 'transfer' documentation so C&RT actually have no legal liability to maintain the waterways - what they do is purely down to the 'goodness of their heart'.

Edited October 8, 2016 by Alan de Enfield

[Sea Dog]

I'm sorry say, I think you've answered your own question. The answer is only to use your boat where the water is deep enough to accommodate your draft. With an outdrive, this is more critical than ever, and it's not reasonable to expect whoever sells you a licence to check for you. Most folks in narrowboats also find the bottom now and again, some again and again, but the prop isn't the first thing to touch so it's not such a big issue. All boats have their advantages and disadvantages and you've identified one of your biggest issues first time out.

 

I'm sorry you got off to such a bad start, but once you've got your new prop fitted and are having a great time on adifferent waterway, maybe you'll be able to laugh at the pickle you got into on your first time out. My suggestion is to have another beer!

[Flyboy]

Why would anyone warn you about the shallowness of the Mon. & Brecon canal ? Nobody would know the draft of your boat anyway. It is the boaters responsibility to check the depth of any waterway before going on it. Plenty of info. online, guide books, or CaRT may even know. Nicholsons book 4 gives the depth as 2' 6" & headroom of 5' 6". My suggestion is move your boat to another waterway. The Gloucester & Sharpness canal may be more suitable to your needs as it's not too far from you.

Bare in mind that your stern will probably drop 2" when underway, so you would be on the depth limit, plus the fact that there is lots of debris on the canal bed that will get sucked up into the prop.

Edited October 8, 2016 by Flyboy

[stratford4528]

I did my checks by checking on the CRT website. also by phoning and asking. It says on the website the depth is 4ft. I have been doing a lot of research. You would not believe the things I am being told about the CRT. That is why I registered on this site to get more info.

[Neil2]

Some time ago a chap was proposing to take his yacht across the Pennines via the Rochdale because "officially" the draught limit is four foot. Fortunately he made enquiries on here and was quickly disabused of the notion.

 

A good tip is to paint your cabin shaft or mark it with the draught of your boat (plus a couple of inches, as mentioned) so at any time you can stick it in the water and see whether you can safely pass. I do this all the time and it's interesting how often there's only inches to spare.

Edited October 8, 2016 by Neil2

[Captain Pegg]

That's very unfortunate but the Mon & Brec is significantly shallower than most if not all of the connected network. The places I have visited the water is clear and you can see that 24" is more like the reality than 48". I assume you weren't able to visit the canal as part of your research. Your licence presumably covers all canals and if you venture further afield you should be OK. I doubt you will find the bottom of the Gloucester & Sharpness unless there is a hole in the hull of your boat.

 

JP

[MtB]

I spent 5 years fully refurbishing a Norman 32 to a very high standard. For my first holiday for 5 years I decided to put it on the Brecon Canal. The nearest to me. Last Sunday 2nd October I launched it at Herons Rest Marina Then proceeded to cruise to wards Brecon. At the second bridge I hit the bottom. This kept happening all the way to Ashford tunnel which I could not get through although I cleared the marker board at the entrance. Had to reverse all the way out of the tunnel. Managed to turn around to go to the other end of the canal. At one point I got a very large tree branch wedged under my boat. which took a lot of effort to remove. Going a bit further there was an almighty bang and I was stuck on the bottom. When I got moving again there was a vibration coming from my Enfield leg. I managed to raise the leg and found 2 blades had been broken off my prop. Managed to limp back to the marina my holiday ended. Drove back home Tuesday evening. The draught of my boat to the tip of the sceg is 27 inches. The canal is less than 24 inches deep in places. No one told me I would not be able to navigate this canal but quickly took my license money. Any Suggestions what I should do

 

Sell it and buy a proper narrow boat.

 

The thing about most canals is the depth isn't an exact measurement. Most are 4 or 5ft deep to the clay puddling but on top of that there is two or three feet of leaf mulch, silt, mud, old tree branches, traffic cones, bikes, mattresses, saris and sofas.

 

Boats with outdrives find this sort of stuff terribly hard to cope with and are best used on rivers that don't exhibit this sort of feature.

[Alan de Enfield]

Any Suggestions what I should do

 

 

 

Sell it and buy a proper narrow boat.

 

 

 

Alternatively - keep the boat and use it on a 'proper waterway' and not a 'muddy ditch'.

[Neil2]

 

Sell it and buy a proper narrow boat.

 

The thing about most canals is the depth isn't an exact measurement. Most are 4 or 5ft deep to the clay puddling but on top of that there is two or three feet of leaf mulch, silt, mud, old tree branches, traffic cones, bikes, mattresses, saris and sofas.

 

Boats with outdrives find this sort of stuff terribly hard to cope with and are best used on rivers that don't exhibit this sort of feature.

 

One side effect of this is experienced when following another boat which stirs up the interfusion below just nicely for your own prop to collect.

[Murflynn]

I have taken a 22ft inboard launch with a long keel extending past the propeller to the rudder, draught about 19", on the M&B. I touched bottom several times, especially when trying to avoid the local wide-beam boats. AFAIK the water level is fixed by the overflow weirs discharging into the River Usk below, so there is no such thing as low water conditions on the M&B.

 

You should have asked, and someone would have advised you.

 

Probably the most vulnerable type of boat is one with a sterndrive leg.

 

I have even witnessed a large twin-screw cruiser lose one leg on the cill when trying to leave Bath Deep lock in low water conditions.

Edited October 9, 2016 by Murflynn

[Flyboy]

I did my checks by checking on the CRT website. also by phoning and asking. It says on the website the depth is 4ft. I have been doing a lot of research. You would not believe the things I am being told about the CRT. That is why I registered on this site to get more info.

I think that depth is at lock 56 & not the whole canal. The canal was built for 3' draft boats & there's a lot of silt built up over 200 years. I don't think it has been dredged much since restoration.

Edited October 8, 2016 by Flyboy

[stratford4528]

In reply to some of the comments. Is there any where on the CRT website that states there is a maximum draught for boats. As for marking my boat hook and testing the depth of the water. I cant carry a long boat pole. Would I have to test the water all the way along the canal. As for selling my boat and getting a narrow boat defeats the object. My Idea is to navigate as many of the British waterways that I can before my life terminates. That is the Idea of buying the largest boat that I could tow. I designed a collapsible cockpit for my boat so that I could clear low bridges and tunnels. Knowing that the Ashford tunnel is one of the lowest I needed to see If I could get through. Also the Brecon and Monmouth is the nearest canal to me. About 5 years ago I had a holiday on the canal in a boat with an out board and did not have any problem hitting the bottom. I had allowed to be able to add ballast to help. Also I had built a 100 gallon water tank which was under the cockpit floor which I could have filled right up. If I had added ballast it would have made my problem hitting the bottom worse. If the canal had low water because of lack of water then I would accept that but there was plenty of water just lack of dredging. I am building up information to make a case so If any one wants to support me I would appreciate it. There is a saying (not fit for purpose). I paid my license money and did not have in return the pleasure of using the canal. In fact it has cost me a lot of money. There are narrow boats on the canal that cannot leave the marina's any more because they cannot navigate the canal. Also there are boats that don't pay there license fee any more and the CRT don't chase them for the money. Who is in the wrong?. I am not a novice to boating having done the Avon ring a couple of times a few years ago on a 40 ft boat I restored after finding it sunk in the arm at Lapworth.

[Dave Payne]

Are you Bob, lives near Swansea?

[MtB]

In reply to some of the comments. Is there any where on the CRT website that states there is a maximum draught for boats. As for marking my boat hook and testing the depth of the water. I cant carry a long boat pole. Would I have to test the water all the way along the canal. As for selling my boat and getting a narrow boat defeats the object. My Idea is to navigate as many of the British waterways that I can before my life terminates. That is the Idea of buying the largest boat that I could tow. I designed a collapsible cockpit for my boat so that I could clear low bridges and tunnels. Knowing that the Ashford tunnel is one of the lowest I needed to see If I could get through. Also the Brecon and Monmouth is the nearest canal to me. About 5 years ago I had a holiday on the canal in a boat with an out board and did not have any problem hitting the bottom. I had allowed to be able to add ballast to help. Also I had built a 100 gallon water tank which was under the cockpit floor which I could have filled right up. If I had added ballast it would have made my problem hitting the bottom worse. If the canal had low water because of lack of water then I would accept that but there was plenty of water just lack of dredging. I am building up information to make a case so If any one wants to support me I would appreciate it. There is a saying (not fit for purpose). I paid my license money and did not have in return the pleasure of using the canal. In fact it has cost me a lot of money. There are narrow boats on the canal that cannot leave the marina's any more because they cannot navigate the canal. Also there are boats that don't pay there license fee any more and the CRT don't chase them for the money. Who is in the wrong?. I am not a novice to boating having done the Avon ring a couple of times a few years ago on a 40 ft boat I restored after finding it sunk in the arm at Lapworth.

 

 

I'm not sure what you want any of us to say, but whatever we say cannot make the canal any deeper, or make your boat draw any less depth.

 

CRT certainly aren't going to dredge the whole canal system to suit your boat if that's what you want to happen. I doubt they are even obliged to return your licence money although they might just agree to this if you make enough fuss.

 

It's all very unfortunate but ultimately the massive amount of work you have done was based on a misunderstanding, and brutal though it is, you are going to have to come to terms with this unalterable fact. Very unfortunate but I see no other way out.

[ditchcrawler]

The only one I have seen published is the upper end of the Llangollen

[Graham Davis]

In reply to some of the comments. Is there any where on the CRT website that states there is a maximum draught for boats. As for marking my boat hook and testing the depth of the water. I cant carry a long boat pole. Would I have to test the water all the way along the canal. As for selling my boat and getting a narrow boat defeats the object. My Idea is to navigate as many of the British waterways that I can before my life terminates. That is the Idea of buying the largest boat that I could tow. I designed a collapsible cockpit for my boat so that I could clear low bridges and tunnels. Knowing that the Ashford tunnel is one of the lowest I needed to see If I could get through. Also the Brecon and Monmouth is the nearest canal to me. About 5 years ago I had a holiday on the canal in a boat with an out board and did not have any problem hitting the bottom. I had allowed to be able to add ballast to help. Also I had built a 100 gallon water tank which was under the cockpit floor which I could have filled right up. If I had added ballast it would have made my problem hitting the bottom worse. If the canal had low water because of lack of water then I would accept that but there was plenty of water just lack of dredging. I am building up information to make a case so If any one wants to support me I would appreciate it. There is a saying (not fit for purpose). I paid my license money and did not have in return the pleasure of using the canal. In fact it has cost me a lot of money. There are narrow boats on the canal that cannot leave the marina's any more because they cannot navigate the canal. Also there are boats that don't pay there license fee any more and the CRT don't chase them for the money. Who is in the wrong?. I am not a novice to boating having done the Avon ring a couple of times a few years ago on a 40 ft boat I restored after finding it sunk in the arm at Lapworth.

Oh dear!!

The B & M isn't the closest canal to you. You could always try using the Swansea and Neath Canals that are currently under voluntary restoration.

 

The B & M has always been shallow and it will never change, mainly due to the position it takes in the geography of the area. Remember that we are lucky it still exists at all following the last drastic breach.

 

It is possible that some boats do not need to be licensed in some of the marinas, if they are "private waters". You need to do some research about that before complaining.

[cereal tiller]

I spent 5 years fully refurbishing a Norman 32 to a very high standard. For my first holiday for 5 years I decided to put it on the Brecon Canal. The nearest to me. Last Sunday 2nd October I launched it at Herons Rest Marina Then proceeded to cruise to wards Brecon. At the second bridge I hit the bottom. This kept happening all the way to Ashford tunnel which I could not get through although I cleared the marker board at the entrance. Had to reverse all the way out of the tunnel. Managed to turn around to go to the other end of the canal. At one point I got a very large tree branch wedged under my boat. which took a lot of effort to remove. Going a bit further there was an almighty bang and I was stuck on the bottom. When I got moving again there was a vibration coming from my Enfield leg. I managed to raise the leg and found 2 blades had been broken off my prop. Managed to limp back to the marina my holiday ended. Drove back home Tuesday evening. The draught of my boat to the tip of the sceg is 27 inches. The canal is less than 24 inches deep in places. No one told me I would not be able to navigate this canal but quickly took my license money. Any Suggestions what I should do

One solution to this problem could be to wind the Enfield leg up out of the water(not lift but wind!)when using your boat in shallow water.

 

With a folding transom bracket a modest outboard motor could be used when required and the Engine/outdrive only deployed in deeper water

 

CT

[Machpoint005]

In an ideal world all CRT's waters would be fit for navigation by any reasonable craft.

 

In a real world CRT's resources are limited, and it is no surprise that they concentrate them where there is the most traffic.

[Sea Dog]

In reply to some of the comments. Is there any where on the CRT website that states there is a maximum draught for boats. As for marking my boat hook and testing the depth of the water. I cant carry a long boat pole. Would I have to test the water all the way along the canal. As for selling my boat and getting a narrow boat defeats the object. My Idea is to navigate as many of the British waterways that I can before my life terminates. That is the Idea of buying the largest boat that I could tow. I designed a collapsible cockpit for my boat so that I could clear low bridges and tunnels. Knowing that the Ashford tunnel is one of the lowest I needed to see If I could get through. Also the Brecon and Monmouth is the nearest canal to me. About 5 years ago I had a holiday on the canal in a boat with an out board and did not have any problem hitting the bottom. I had allowed to be able to add ballast to help. Also I had built a 100 gallon water tank which was under the cockpit floor which I could have filled right up. If I had added ballast it would have made my problem hitting the bottom worse. If the canal had low water because of lack of water then I would accept that but there was plenty of water just lack of dredging. I am building up information to make a case so If any one wants to support me I would appreciate it. There is a saying (not fit for purpose). I paid my license money and did not have in return the pleasure of using the canal. In fact it has cost me a lot of money. There are narrow boats on the canal that cannot leave the marina's any more because they cannot navigate the canal. Also there are boats that don't pay there license fee any more and the CRT don't chase them for the money. Who is in the wrong?. I am not a novice to boating having done the Avon ring a couple of times a few years ago on a 40 ft boat I restored after finding it sunk in the arm at Lapworth.

Then you did nearly everything right. Sadly, the bit you got wrong (the draft and vulnerability of the drive) is probably the most difficult thing to sort out.

 

The thing you also need to get your head around is that no matter how much you've paid, how much others might not have paid, how many boats don't come out of marina's, how experienced you are, etc, you're still in the same position. No-one else is responsible for it and no-one else can change it for you by altering what they do.

 

The good news is that, even if all else fails, the Severn isn't far from you. There's lots of happy boaters on there who's boats won't go on any canals at all.

[Larkboy]

I'm with the OP on this, for the money C&RT charge for their license they should have some obligations to maintain a minimum depth for navigation. Sounds like the OP asked them the questions and I feel there should be some responsibility for C&RT to know the system they are responsible for. I'm on the E.A managed Great Ouse system and know of people who have complained when navigation has been restricted, due to various reasons, and got money off their license for the year. I hope like hell that C&RT don't ultimately take over our system, the E.A may be far from perfect but they seem to have a much better outlook in my view.

[Graham Davis]

I'm with the OP on this, for the money C&RT charge for their license they should have some obligations to maintain a minimum depth for navigation. Sounds like the OP asked them the questions and I feel there should be some responsibility for C&RT to know the system they are responsible for. I'm on the E.A managed Great Ouse system and know of people who have complained when navigation has been restricted, due to various reasons, and got money off their license for the year. I hope like hell that C&RT don't ultimately take over our system, the E.A may be far from perfect but they seem to have a much better outlook in my view.

 

Sounds like you want them to close the system down then!

As has already been said, the B & M has always been shallow and we are lucky it is open at all, following a few serious breaches.

[Murflynn]

anyone who has followed a Salter's steamer out of Sonning Lock and under the medieval road bridge will know that the EA doesn't maintain the depth of the river Thames either.

when I followed it out it scraped and yawed all over the place as it tried to cross a gravel bank.

 

PS: it is known as the Mon and Brec, not the B&M.

Edited October 9, 2016 by Murflynn

[MtB]

I'm with the OP on this, for the money C&RT charge for their license they should have some obligations to maintain a minimum depth for navigation.

 

 

I agree with you in an ideal world, they should.

 

But back here in reality, they don't. CRT have no such obligation, whatever the charge for a licence. The licence allows you to navigate what's there, not what you think ought to be there.

[David Mack]

Did you make any enquiries as to the depth of the Mon and Brec before you set off? Or did you just assume it would be deep enough for your boat?

 

The canal has a reputation for being shallow, but a quick google didn't bring up any information on just how shallow, although the printed guidebooks may give some advice.