Calor bottle amnesty, this month only.

[dor]

Slightly off theme but my 2003 Pinder cruiser stern has the gas locker on the rear deck. Swapping cylinders a few months ago, I found I couldn't get the new cylinder in under the fixed part of the top. I hadn't noted that some 13kg cylinders now have a higher handle/valve protector. Fortunately there was also an older/lower cylinder in stock so I was able to swap. Just hope the two designs will continue in parallel otherwise I'll have to take a large hammer to the locker and make an 'adjustment'!

I've not come across any newish cylinders with a higher handle/valve protector on the top, but there certainly used to be some on much older cylinders. Very rarely come across those now. I think there would be an outcry if they started changing the overall height of the cylinders!

[Rose Narrowboats]

Dor is correct - the higher cylinders are the older (1960's vintage I think) type with the screw on bar type handle. Calor are aware of their limitations and generally do their best not to supply them to us after we pointed out that they sometimes do not fit in our customer's gas lockers.

 

Calor have been horribly short of cylinders this year - most weeks since the start of the season we have had less delivered than ordered. I got fairly uppity with them when they tried to deny us 13kg Propanes for three weeks in a row in July. Threatening to tear up our agreement with them seemed to work - but doubtless someone else went without instead.

 

We've not had any 3.9kgs for weeks now - because they haven't got any to refill. Meanwhile I have seven empties sat taking up useful space so I suggested that they took them back, refilled them and brought them (or seven others, I don't really care) back the following week, but no, they couldn't do that.

 

They used to pay us a few quid per cylinder for any we took in without paperwork, but they revised the way they worked their delivery vehicle fleet a few years ago (ie they reduced it and got rid of a lot of drivers) so now there often isn't spare space on the lorry to return excess cylinders. Remind why they are short again......

[Guest]

Dor is correct - the higher cylinders are the older (1960's vintage I think) type with the screw on bar type handle. Calor are aware of their limitations and generally do their best not to supply them to us after we pointed out that they sometimes do not fit in our customer's gas lockers.

 

Calor have been horribly short of cylinders this year - most weeks since the start of the season we have had less delivered than ordered. I got fairly uppity with them when they tried to deny us 13kg Propanes for three weeks in a row in July. Threatening to tear up our agreement with them seemed to work - but doubtless someone else went without instead.

 

We've not had any 3.9kgs for weeks now - because they haven't got any to refill. Meanwhile I have seven empties sat taking up useful space so I suggested that they took them back, refilled them and brought them (or seven others, I don't really care) back the following week, but no, they couldn't do that.

 

They used to pay us a few quid per cylinder for any we took in without paperwork, but they revised the way they worked their delivery vehicle fleet a few years ago (ie they reduced it and got rid of a lot of drivers) so now there often isn't spare space on the lorry to return excess cylinders. Remind why they are short again......

Sounds like Calor haven't changed much since I briefly worked in the bottled gas game about 30 years ago, then. They have had it too easy for too long. Some healthy competition needed.

Edited September 10, 2016 by Guest

[Rose Narrowboats]

Sounds like Calor haven't changed much since I briefly worked in the bottled gas game about 30 years ago, then. They have had it too easy for too long. Some healthy competition needed.

I'd agree but they've bought a lot of their competitors though - which is another reason why they've run short of cylinders in the past.

 

One problem for us is that we still have a lot of Alde boilers in the fleet. Out of season, with the doors wide open and the boiler on 7, three 13kg's will just last the week. Most of the competitors are only 11kg so not quite enough.

 

We had, by agreement, both Calor and Flogas on site at one point, and I found Flogas awful to deal with, both in terms in of reliability and attitude. Their rep would come in trying to bully us and set us sales targets and the final straw was when they sent a legal letter to Calor ordering them to remove all Calor bottles from "their" premises without my knowledge or any form of consent.

[sharpness]

Perhaps Calor should send a pickup round council tips or "recycling centres", there's loads at our local tip.

 

Steve

[Jerra]

Perhaps Calor should send a pickup round council tips or "recycling centres", there's loads at our local tip.

 

Steve

The ones at our local recycling centre, (there is no longer a tip) are kept in what looks to be the sort of cage suppliers use so I have always assumed Calor collect them.

[Guest]

Perhaps Calor should send a pickup round council tips or "recycling centres", there's loads at our local tip.

 

Steve

Likewise always loads at ours.

[Athy]

Mr. Rose, how do you get the full bottles of gas on to your boats? Are they perhaps lifted on to them?

 

I ask because, when I came to your HQ for a new bottle of gas last week and explained that I needed it installed because a current back problem would not allow me to lug it myself, the young lady in the office told me that "We'll take it out of the cage but we won't lift it on to the boat". So I had to shop elsewhere - few miles down the cut towards Newbold, where we had a cylinder installed by a contender for the World's Grumpiest Man who, as soon as he'd taken my cash, proceeded to insult my wife.

 

Calor buying is fraught with difficulties - thank goodness we use only one bottle a year on average.

 

Oh, we bought our original empty gas bottle from the foreman at Heanor tip. £5 in his hand, but that was 10 years ago.

[Chewbacka]

Bottles (full) weigh about 30kg which is close to requiring lifting assist (a baby crane/hoist). However when you take into account the additional hazards of lifting it onto a boat the risk assessment would make this a 2 man lift or use a hoist. Also any paint chipping when swinging it onto the boat may result in a damage claim, so all in all I am not surprised they say "do it yourself".

 

Of course you can go to another place where their risk assessment - assuming they have one - allows a single man lift. But if I was lifting a full bottle onto a boat and then down into a gas locker on a frequent basis I would be grumpy, though I would never insult the customers partner.

[Athy]

As a paying customer I expect good customer service for my money, not a litany of excuses. Whatever method they use to install a bottle of gas in one of their own boats would obviously work when installing one in somebody else's. I'm awaiting Mr. Rose's reply with interest.

 

Oh, and Mrs. Athy is my wife, not my "partner". We do in fact own a business together, so she is my partner in that sense, but we were not at business at the time.

Edited September 11, 2016 by Athy

[Manxcat]

I tried looking for my nearest Calor Centre

(apparently you can only return the bottle for the amnesty to Calor Centres),

which would be Grangemouth - click on "Get Directions" and got the attached Google Map directions.

 

I don't think I want to fork out from $1259 for the flight to find that the Abbotsinch Hotel are unable to assist me.

 

Calor Centre is on Abbotinsch Industrial Estate.

 

It seems that Calor Gas can't find their own Centres never mind their gas bottles...

 

 

Edited September 11, 2016 by Manxcat

[Jerra]

As a paying customer I expect good customer service for my money, not a litany of excuses. Whatever method they use to install a bottle of gas in one of their own boats would obviously work when installing one in somebody else's. I'm awaiting Mr. Rose's reply with interest.

 

Oh, and Mrs. Athy is my wife, not my "partner". We do in fact own a business together, so she is my partner in that sense, but we were not at business at the time.

In your business do you charge extra for extra services? I don't think the charge for a Calor Bottle normally includes fitting. So carrying to the boat and fitting isn't paid for in the price you have paid.

[Paul C]

Mr. Rose, how do you get the full bottles of gas on to your boats? Are they perhaps lifted on to them?

 

I ask because, when I came to your HQ for a new bottle of gas last week and explained that I needed it installed because a current back problem would not allow me to lug it myself, the young lady in the office told me that "We'll take it out of the cage but we won't lift it on to the boat". So I had to shop elsewhere - few miles down the cut towards Newbold, where we had a cylinder installed by a contender for the World's Grumpiest Man who, as soon as he'd taken my cash, proceeded to insult my wife.

 

Calor buying is fraught with difficulties - thank goodness we use only one bottle a year on average.

 

Oh, we bought our original empty gas bottle from the foreman at Heanor tip. £5 in his hand, but that was 10 years ago.

 

Does your wife have a sore back too?

[Guest]

I have a permanently sore back, and lifting the larger bottles in is painful. I did take to using the 6kg bottles, despite being considerably more expensive per Kg, but these seem very scarce now. Some kind of hoist on the sharp end would be in order for me.

[Athy]

 

Does your wife have a sore back too?

How is this relevant? She is a lady.

In your business do you charge extra for extra services? I don't think the charge for a Calor Bottle normally includes fitting. So carrying to the boat and fitting isn't paid for in the price you have paid.

Mr. J., you often express good sense and wisdom in your posts. On this occasion, however...

[Paul C]

How is this relevant? She is a lady.

 

For obvious reasons really........

[Jerra]

Mr. J., you often express good sense and wisdom in your posts. On this occasion, however...

Why thank you kind Sir for the compliment. Would you care to expand on why it is not good sense.

 

As far as I can see there are a number of points.

 

1. The employer is required to consider the weights and handling there of. On change over days they may have enough staff for two people to handle the gas cylinders or a strapping young lad big enough to juggle with them. This may not be available on days which aren't change over days.

 

2. While the member of staff is being called to handle your cylinder, carrying and installing it they are being taken away from what ever job they were doing. This however you look at it is either adding a cost to the job they were doing or to the gas. For heavens sake Halfords ask £7 to install a light bulb nothing like as strenuous as carrying and installing a cylinder.

 

3. You didn't expect the "young Lady" to lug it for you did you?

 

4. Coming back to point 1 were there any other staff available to have carried the cylinder or did you only see the young lady.

[Athy]

Yes, multiple male staff in evidence.

Installing a new gas cylinder is normal customer service. If you take a car to a garage because it needs, for example, a new battery or tyre, you wouldn't expect the fitter to hand you the battery or tyre and tell you to fit it yourself. You would expect the job to be done by the seller.

[Jerra]

Yes, multiple male staff in evidence.

Installing a new gas cylinder is normal customer service. If you take a car to a garage because it needs, for example, a new battery or tyre, you wouldn't expect the fitter to hand you the battery or tyre and tell you to fit it yourself. You would expect the job to be done by the seller.

If you go to say Halfords and buy your batteries do you expect them installed for you? Are the batteries for your battery bank always installed no matter where you buy them?

 

Calor isn't usually installed for you when you buy it in fact in a life time of using Calor for caravans, boats, and a silver soldering torch I have never had a cylinder installed.

 

Tyres aren't a good example as the vehicle can't move without the wheel and fitting the tyre isn't on a par with connecting a gas cylinder.

 

I think you and I will just have to agree to disagree.

[Athy]

If you go to say Halfords and buy your batteries do you expect them installed for you? Are the batteries for your battery bank always installed no matter where you buy them?

 

Calor isn't usually installed for you when you buy it in fact in a life time of using Calor for caravans, boats, and a silver soldering torch I have never had a cylinder installed.

 

Tyres aren't a good example as the vehicle can't move without the wheel and fitting the tyre isn't on a par with connecting a gas cylinder.

 

I think you and I will just have to agree to disagree.

Perhaps we should agree that we have had different experiences. I can't remember ever putting a gas cylinder in our boat - at least not the current one, which was launched 10 years ago. In fact we don't even own a gas key/ spanner/ whatever it may be called. Last year's bottle was put in by Cropredy Marina, who seemed to expect to do the job properly rather than doing half a job.

 

I still await Mr. Rose's explanation with interest.

[Mike Todd]

Why thank you kind Sir for the compliment. Would you care to expand on why it is not good sense.

 

As far as I can see there are a number of points.

 

1. The employer is required to consider the weights and handling there of. On change over days they may have enough staff for two people to handle the gas cylinders or a strapping young lad big enough to juggle with them. This may not be available on days which aren't change over days.

 

2. While the member of staff is being called to handle your cylinder, carrying and installing it they are being taken away from what ever job they were doing. This however you look at it is either adding a cost to the job they were doing or to the gas. For heavens sake Halfords ask £7 to install a light bulb nothing like as strenuous as carrying and installing a cylinder.

 

3. You didn't expect the "young Lady" to lug it for you did you?

 

4. Coming back to point 1 were there any other staff available to have carried the cylinder or did you only see the young lady.

see http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/indg143.pdf

 

In the specific data, the age and fitness of the person is not a factor, although it might be in the general risk assessment.

 

BTW, what is the lifting weight of a standard calor bottle when full?

[Jerra]

BTW, what is the lifting weight of a standard calor bottle when full?

I am not sure what size is classed as "standard" and am not near a cylinder of any kind at the moment. However the caravan club says between 25Kg & 32Kg for a 13Kg cylinder. Which I must admit is a larger variation than I would expect.

[Mike Todd]

I am not sure what size is classed as "standard" and am not near a cylinder of any kind at the moment. However the caravan club says between 25Kg & 32Kg for a 13Kg cylinder. Which I must admit is a larger variation than I would expect.

In which case they probably ought to be craned on board . . .

[Geo]

In which case they probably ought to be craned on board . . .

 

Maybe page 8 of this HSE doc will help quieten the argument http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/indg143.pdf

 

Basically a 13Kg cylinder is probably over the limits

[Jerra]

 

Maybe page 8 of this HSE doc will help quieten the argument http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/indg143.pdf

 

Basically a 13Kg cylinder is probably over the limits

Having already read that I am assuming the Calor suppliers I have used over the decades (Athy obviously has different experience) are looking after their staff by taking the "it is handling we as employers can avoid so we won't do it".

 

With regard to Mike T and craning aboard that to me is a service I would expect to pay for just as I expect to pay Halfords if I opt for them fitting a lamp bulb.