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Drinking and boating


dogless

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I never intended to appear to be judging anyone based on their choices, and have seldom experienced issues with a crew who have been drinking.

 

We were having a late breakfast on Gongoozlers Rest at Braunston, and taking a straw poll of passing boats (12.30pm) and were surprised by how many boats had evidence of the crew drinking, particularly as many had just come from, or were heading to the locks.

 

I agree, to each their own. Personally the chosen tipple always seems to taste better after the days work (if one can call it that) is done.

 

Rog (enjoying a Speckled Hen....ooh matron)

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I am sorry that you consider the post to be 'holier than thou' it is not.

 

You talk about pootling along the North Oxford at walking pace.

 

 

 

Perhap's Keith's post might make the point about pootling in a car trying to get it onto his drive way.

 

I can probably give you many stories about alcohol, driving, sailing etc but suffice to say eventually they all end up badly for someone. Frequently not the partaker of alcohol but others who have to restore things.

Still holier than thou I'm afraid.

 

I could easily reverse and park my car on a single G and T. The fact that sombody else cannot is neither here nor there.

 

How do I know I can? Because I have.

Edited by MJG
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That can't go unquoted.

 

Please mind your own business, unless and until those of us who do like a beer do something illegal or dangerous.

 

cheers.gif

 

Maybe it is everyone's business who has had to clear up the mess.

 

clapping.gif

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Maybe it is everyone's business who has had to clear up the mess.

 

clapping.gif

What mess please?

 

If you are referring to the recent boat cilling I think as far as we seem to be being told the amounts of alcohol consumed seem considerably more than what is being discussed here.

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I find that personally I can do about 2 or 3 beers and it won't affect my boat handling in a negative way when in undemanding situations.

Today I was on the Thames Tideway down to Limehouse and did not have any alcohol because its a different kettle of fish entirely. I think it comes down to experience and attitude and no it is not the same a driving a car :rolleyes: a boat going along at 4mph unless something exceptionally unusual occurs you do not require the reaction time that you would driving a car at 35mph+

 

Otoh years ago when I smoked some Mary Jane I found a turning maneuver which I had performed countless times in my narrow boat became completely impossible. I f*****d it up completely :lol:

 

I guess if one has existing physical health issues like age or weight problems then adding alcohol to it is going to be a problem but for a fit knowledgeable boater on docile waterways I don't think its likely to make much difference.

Edited by magnetman
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Did you go armed with a pump and a mop to Stoke Bruerne or are you just sitting on a high horse armed with a keyboard?

Virtual greenie for that gaza (on the phone,oh and well down a bottle of very nice bottle of Italian Merlot now we are moored up for the night)

 

Well not moored but pitched on a nice site in Alsace but you get the drift....same principle.

Edited by MJG
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I reckon an experienced and sensible boater with a few pints inside him is still a lot safer than an inexperienced boater in a big hurry, its all a matter of degree and common sense. Couple of weeks ago we came down the Caldon, stopped in Stoke late afternoon and had a good few pints in the Holy Inadequate, then did a late evening cruise up to the Harecastle tunnel entrance. Very quiet canal at that time of day and no locks. Going through the industrial decay of Stokes potteries in the sunset was one of the nicest cruises this year.

 

........Dave

 

"Common sense" means different things to different people, though, doesn't it? To me it seems like "common sense" that it would be bloody dangerous to pilot a boat, tie up etc. after "a few pints", but then I'm pretty sure I'd feel unambiguously drunk after maybe three pints. Everybody will have their own subjective idea of how much feels like too much, beyond which "common sense" dictates they shouldn't pilot a boat or go through a lock, but is this really a reliable guide? Time was many people would have said "yes" even in relation to drinking and driving, but most would now accept that the evidence shows otherwise.

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Virtual greenie for that gaza (on the phone,oh and well down a bottle of very nice bottle of Italian Merlot now we are moored up for the night)

Well not moored but pitched on a nice site in Alsace but you get the drift....same principle.

Very nice that sounds too, enjoy your bottle but be sure not to operate any heavy machinery while under the influence :)

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What mess please?

 

If you are referring to the recent boat cilling I think as far as we seem to be being told the amounts of alcohol consumed seem considerably more than what is being discussed here.

 

 

Did you go armed with a pump and a mop to Stoke Bruerne or are you just sitting on a high horse armed with a keyboard?

 

Carry on it seems that it is insult time

 

 

I find that personally I can do about 2 or 3 beers and it won't affect my boat handling in a negative way when in undemanding situations.

Today I was on the Thames Tideway down to Limehouse and did not have any alcohol because its a different kettle of fish entirely. I think it comes down to experience and attitude and no it is not the same a driving a car rolleyes.gif a boat going along at 4mph unless something exceptionally unusual occurs you do not require the reaction time that you would driving a car at 35mph+

 

Otoh years ago when I smoked some Mary Jane I found a turning maneuver which I had performed countless times in my narrow boat became completely impossible. I f*****d it up completely laugh.png

 

I guess if one has existing physical health issues like age or weight problems then adding alcohol to it is going to be a problem but for a fit knowledgeable boater on docile waterways I don't think its likely to make much difference.

 

I think the important point you make is docile. Some would say the canal system is docile yet boats get sunk in locks because things suddenly wrong out of the blue go wrong. So what is the level of acceptable alcohol or beers when navigating, operating swing bridges, locks etc on say the GU or the Oxford

 

Have a good evening all, a bottle of brandy to be addressed here.

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Carry on it seems that it is insult time

 

 

 

 

I think the important point you make is docile. Some would say the canal system is docile yet boats get sunk in locks because things suddenly wrong out of the blue go wrong. So what is the level of acceptable alcohol or beers when navigating, operating swing bridges, locks etc on say the GU or the Oxford

 

Have a good evening all, a bottle of brandy to be addressed here.

insult time? Really?

 

Your post was condescending and holier than thou as Martin and i pointed out.

 

You can't make comments like that that are insulting to us with a different view point to you and expect not to be picked up on it!

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Carry on it seems that it is insult time

 

 

 

I think the important point you make is docile. Some would say the canal system is docile yet boats get sunk in locks because things suddenly wrong out of the blue go wrong. So what is the level of acceptable alcohol or beers when navigating, operating swing bridges, locks etc on say the GU or the Oxford

 

Have a good evening all, a bottle of brandy to be addressed here.

Insult time?

 

Strange but anyway yes we will thanks.

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Carry on it seems that it is insult time

 

 

 

I think the important point you make is docile. Some would say the canal system is docile yet boats get sunk in locks because things suddenly wrong out of the blue go wrong. So what is the level of acceptable alcohol or beers when navigating, operating swing bridges, locks etc on say the GU or the Oxford

 

Have a good evening all, a bottle of brandy to be addressed here.

With respect and I am not going to start having a go at you :) I don't think the culling of a boat in a lock is something which suddenly goes wrong out of the blue. It is basic boat handling skill to be watching out for this risk. You would have to be very hammered to be oblivious to the sinking risk.

 

Moveable bridges are an interesting point

Culling was meant to be cilling :rolleyes: maybe a Freudian slip !

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Alcohol and water don't mix in my opinion (and this is just my opinion). We had someone drown on the marina a couple of years back....he fell in whilst hammered and was found next to his boat the following afternoon face down. I no longer drink but do know that when I did drink even a couple of glasses of wine slowed my reflexes and impaired my judgement, although I probably would have denied it at the time. My boat weighs around 16 tons so even at 4mph that's a lot of kinetic energy and I feel much happier controlling that unimpaired. I've been on a boat 11 years and have seen boats out with drunk people in charge and they are a danger to everyone. I'm not saying never have a drink whilst cruising, but too many people seem to think it's ok to treat cruising as if they were down the pub and drink more than is safe.

  • Greenie 2
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With out entering the fray, but to answer the OP question, the bar on board remains closed until we have finished boating for the day. Perhaps that is why we aim to start early in the morning and find a mooring by about 3pm each day?

 

However whilst alcohol affects people in different ways,it DOES affect you all. Even pooldeling along at 4mph in a boat that displaces 'only' 15- 20mt I am very aware that something could happen just around the next corner and I want o make sure I have a clear head to deal with it, especially if the other people involved don't have a clear head. Survival of the fittest, I don't want my shiny boat scratched!

 

Having grown up by, working on and spending a fair bit spare time on top of water I am well aware of the dangers that can and I have seen happen. Rather get through the day safely before relaxing with a beer. As a slight aside on my "office "we are fortunate that the company still allows the crew to drink beer in moderation. ( no time over the UK drink drive limit, and no consumption 2hrs before going on duty). However when I got my 4th stripe I decided that I would no longer drink whilst aboard. That first beer when you have gone down that gangway at the end of the trip doesn't have taste good!

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I can probably give you many stories about alcohol, driving, sailing etc but suffice to say eventually they all end up badly for someone. Frequently not the partaker of alcohol but others who have to restore things.

 

I am sure you can, indeed so could I.

 

But it's worth remembering all the cases which you (or I) cannot remember when alcohol led to no difficulty whatsoever. Obviously there are cases, driving is a prime example, where even a small risk cannot be acceptable because of the potential consequences.

 

I don't think canal boating is one of these but of course each individual will have her own opinion and (hopefully) act accordingly.

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In my experience (as a mental health worker) drug users of many kinds live in denial of the damage they do, to themselves and others. Those who have escaped catastrophe deny that it could happen. There is a loss of objectivity, which leaves only a blinkered view of their lives. This is as true of alcohol as it is of tobacco and any number of illegal drugs.

In the end it is only public campaign and ultimately legislation that protects the rest of society and preserves its right to be safe from the less mindful. But taking sweets away from children will certainly make them cry 'unfair!', so this is to be expected.

 

Accusing critics of being patronising or hypocritical is ok for teenagers, but just sounds silly from adults. Address the issue, instead.

 

Habitual drinkers are not my choice of company, any more than smokers. So I try not to let either spoil my enjoyment of boating, or anything else. I do confess that I find a lovely hot cup of tea both as irresistible as it is refreshing. I am aware of the dangers of caffeine highs, but I wonder if tea has ever been blamed for society's ills. I once scalded my hand on an over-zealous teapot.

  • Greenie 2
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In my experience (as a mental health worker) drug users of many kinds live in denial of the damage they do, to themselves and others. Those who have escaped catastrophe deny that it could happen. There is a loss of objectivity, which leaves only a blinkered view of their lives. This is as true of alcohol as it is of tobacco and any number of illegal drugs.

In the end it is only public campaign and ultimately legislation that protects the rest of society and preserves its right to be safe from the less mindful. But taking sweets away from children will certainly make them cry 'unfair!', so this is to be expected.

 

Accusing critics of being patronising or hypocritical is ok for teenagers, but just sounds silly from adults. Address the issue, instead.

 

Habitual drinkers are not my choice of company, any more than smokers. So I try not to let either spoil my enjoyment of boating, or anything else. I do confess that I find a lovely hot cup of tea both as irresistible as it is refreshing. I am aware of the dangers of caffeine highs, but I wonder if tea has ever been blamed for society's ills. I once scalded my hand on an over-zealous teapot.

Good for you.

 

What issue needs addressing?

 

I take it you don't get invited to many parties? :)

  • Greenie 1
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Alcohol undoubtedly dulls the senses and gives you a false level of competence. To varying degrees with different people. You only have to watch Tim and Pru's series to realise this.

BUT so does using a mobile phone. Simulator tests prove that you can't concentrate on the phone and driving at the same time.

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The odd glass of wine whilst pootling along on an afternoon/evening is totally different to handling boat whilst hammered .

Moderation as ever is the key..those who pour alcohol down their throats in order to achieve "maximum" enjoyment from any social event are a menace be they on waterways or at parties.

 

I rarely drink now due to health related issues following years of stress related illness ..odd glass vino is all I can manage slowly..but for me I don't miss the drink and it does not affect my enjoyment of time out though Im not a party person anyway. I would never have attempted to drive my boat or car or anything that needed 100% clarity of mind. It all boils down to being responsible.

  • Greenie 1
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Side effects of caffeine:

1. Jitters, restlessness, nervousness

2. Increased heartbeat

3. Nausea

4. Anxiety

5. Heart palpitations

6. Insomnia

7. Sweating

8. Dizziness

9. Vomiting

10. Cardiac arrest

 

I will suffer from numbers 2, 3, 5 and 8 after very little caffeine. Oh, plus really shaking hands and my brain feels totally haywire, worse than being drunk. So actually I'm not willing to drive after a couple of glasses of coke.

 

I'm not sure Tim and Pru's dodgy steering is entirely down to alcohol ;-)

And totally agree with wot patty-Ann just said :-)

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To drink or not to drink? Context and moderation must come into it somewhere. After a large and late shot fuelled Friday night responsible folks should be nowhere near a car all next day, but after two pints of regular beer Friday teatime the head will be perfectly clear to drive down the motorway long before breakfast time. Same on the water, if someone is absolutely hammered they shouldn't be moving any kind of craft, be it dinghy, narrowboat or supertanker. Excessive drunkenness and the water can far too easily become a lethal combination.

 

Helming a small boat and having a couple of alcoholic refreshers can be combined responsibly, given benign conditions, and the taste of a favourite cool beverage can often add to the pleasure of an afternoon's cruising. Moving slowly along a well known and lock free length of canal on a well known boat is not going to be more dangerous after two small glasses of regular lager or vino. Half a dozen Navvy's Nightcap however would be a different story and the ropes should remain firmly tied. Where conditions are less favourable I personally wouldn't think any alcohol would be wise eg: if it was an unknown boat, the water's fast or lumpy or there are additional hazards like locks.

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I can probably give you many stories about alcohol, driving, sailing etc but suffice to say eventually they all end up badly for someone. Frequently not the partaker of alcohol but others who have to restore things.

 

This simply isn't true though is it? In 99.99 (something) percent of cases of moderate consumption, even if you acknowledge it does impede reaction times), it does not end up badly for anybody or anything.

 

I'm not making the case one way or the other, but a suggestion it will always have a bad outcome is clearly overdramatising things, and I would say unhelpful to the debate.

 

In all the recent canal based mishaps I personally have witnessed alcohol has played no part in any of them, AFAIK. Please can we keep a sense of proportion?

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This simply isn't true though is it? In 99.99 (something) percent of cases of moderate consumption, even if you acknowledge it does impede reaction times), it does not end up badly for anybody or anything.

 

I'm not making the case one way or the other, but a suggestion it will always have a bad outcome is clearly overdramatising things, and I would say unhelpful to the debate.

 

In all the recent canal based mishaps I personally have witnessed alcohol has played no part in any of them, AFAIK. Please can we keep a sense of proportion?

 

 

Geo can correct me if I am wrong but I suspect that the bad outcomes he refers to are the ones from the stories he could tell, not about alcohol and driving etc as a whole.

 

Howard

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