Morso Squirrel Stove

[Johny London]

I wonder if anyone could offer advice about which kind of stove to get? I'm after a Morso Squirrel, and have seen a couple of variants - radiant or convection. (1410/1412/1430?) Also options for ribbed or squirrel motif sides - does this mean the difference with being called radiant or not? Are there other important differences to do with the grate/riddling or airflow etc?

The stove will be sited in my 62ft boat, at the end of the 15ft saloon furthest away from the bow doors. I'm hoping it will keep the saloon warm and cosy while keeping the rest of the boat ambient at least. I anticipate burning fuel that you buy in bags (smokeless or is it coal?) rather than foraged wood.

Of course - plenty of other tips needed regarding safe installation and.... how on earth do you cut the hole out in the roof for the flue?!

I have previous experience with a domestic stove, ashore.

thanks,

Edited September 3, 2016 by Johny London

[Alan de Enfield]

 

I think total volume will play a deciding factor - if I remember, you are a wide beam, so MAY need a stove twice as big as a narrowboat of similar length.

[nicknorman]

We have a squirrel, however they are very expensive and seem to have a bit of a bad name for longevity on here - they are cast iron and screwed together, it seems there is a tendancy to rust at the fittings, the rust bulges and eventually cracks the cast iron. Our stove is 5 yrs old so far, but we are only leisure users (but we do a fair bit of winter boating).

 

Anyway whilst squirrels are a popular choice, I wonder if in fact a welded steel stove wouldn't be a better long term proposition for live-aboard. The other thing I don't like about our squirrel is that the glass is permanently sooted up. This is always going to be a bit of a problem when burning "smokeless" coal slowly, but I think there are better stoves for keeping the glass clean.

[Guest]

I took advice from the folks on here when replacing my cracked Stovax that came with the boat and replaced it with a welded steel jobby. I feel confindent this will last for the rest of the time I own the boat as it looks like it's solidy constructed.

 

I went for the Aarrow Ecoburn Plus 4 which looks lovely as well, nice clean lines and not too fussy, and has a big viewing window. Admittedly it has only been fired up once so far when the installer tested it, but it seemed easy to control and extremely toasty.

[Nightwatch]

We have known our squirrel for eleven years now. We have lived aboard for 2.5 of those years. We have had to replace the bricks and the door glass. We are pleased.

 

Martyn

[nbfiresprite]

My own squirrel lasted 24 years in liveaboard use before I replaced it with a range (stove with an oven). The grate will last about 7 years before it needs to be replaced. Door glass 3 to 4 years, but after replacing the glass a second time. It was replaced with a steel plate. Never had to replace the fire bricks.

Edited September 4, 2016 by nbfiresprite

[Johny London]

Thanks - surprised to find negative comments on these but I'll certainly have a look at Aarrow. I'm on a nb, so hopefully the small stove will do, the boat is rather well insulated.

Any tips on the particular variant, should I go with the Squirrel?

[Nightwatch]

I would. Money allowing.

[Johny London]

What - have a look at Aarrow or go with Squirrel?

[Nightwatch]

I would go with the Squirrel.

[Glynn]

I would go the the Squirrel or a Villager.

[Johny London]

Thanks - I had a villager in my flat before - though far too big for the boat, sadly - as it was very good.

[Glynn]

They do make small ones you know, I had a Villager Puffin I think it was on the NB, perfect heat output & size.

[Johny London]

Hi yes, I know they do all kinds - just a pity I couldn't take the domestic one with me! Will have a look for the Puffin though.

[Richard T]

WE didn't like the aesthetics of the Squirrel so fitted a Morso 1416 which is much more pleasing (in our opinion) on the eye. We are very happy with it.

http://morsoe.com/uk/indoor/products/multifuel/morsoe-1416-100-mm-legs

Rather than buy an expensive ecofan we have a computer cooling fan mounted behind the stove - this gently helps move air down our boat.

[Ex Brummie]

The reason many Squirrels bow and crack plates is because the stovepipe 'welds' itself to the collar because the installer has not isolated the two metal parts from each other. The stove pipe needs to be able to slip up and down the collar with expansion and contraction. With no float, the plates are stressed and crack.

[Johny London]

Richard - funny enough I didn't like the look of the 1416/

In my research I have found the pdf for the 1410/30/40 series. Interestingly the 1430 allows for closer placement to flammable materials - useful on a narrow boat.

Brummie - that's very interesting and I'll remember it when I come to install - do you have any other install tips such as flue type (twin wall?) and how to cut the hole in the ceiling!?

[Alan de Enfield]

Richard - funny enough I didn't like the look of the 1416/

In my research I have found the pdf for the 1410/30/40 series. Interestingly the 1430 allows for closer placement to flammable materials - useful on a narrow boat.

Brummie - that's very interesting and I'll remember it when I come to install - do you have any other install tips such as flue type (twin wall?) and how to cut the hole in the ceiling!?

 

Just for interest - work out the surface area of the stove, now work out the surface area of the flue pipe.

 

On our NB it would have been almost the same area, which would have meant that we were losing almost half of our radiant heat ie 50% of our fuel costs were going to heat the outside air.

 

Use a single skin flue and get the benefit of all of your fuel / heat.

Use of a double skin flue is not mandatory.

 

If you really want a double skin flue, just use a short length as it goes thru. the roof.

For 100s of years NB have quite happily used a single skin flue - and - in many cases, nothing more complicated than a piece of 4" cast iron down-pipe.

[nicknorman]

Just for interest - work out the surface area of the stove, now work out the surface area of the flue pipe.

 

On our NB it would have been almost the same area, which would have meant that we were losing almost half of our radiant heat ie 50% of our fuel costs were going to heat the outside air.

 

Use a single skin flue and get the benefit of all of your fuel / heat.

Use of a double skin flue is not mandatory.

 

If you really want a double skin flue, just use a short length as it goes thru. the roof.

For 100s of years NB have quite happily used a single skin flue - and - in many cases, nothing more complicated than a piece of 4" cast iron down-pipe.

No this is fallacy. Counter-intuitively I'll grant you, but a double skinned flue results in greater overall efficiency.

[Johny London]

I did wonder about that! I'll see how well sited I can get it then decide. I think I have a fairly generous space available, at least compared to some that I have seen that seem perilously close to curtains etc!

I'm still fretting over trying to cut the flue hole out though

[Alan de Enfield]

No this is fallacy. Counter-intuitively I'll grant you, but a double skinned flue results in greater overall efficiency.

 

Not doubting you, but can you provide some explanation / justification ?

[nicknorman]

Not doubting you, but can you provide some explanation / justification ?

Yes.

 

Firstly consider lighting your stove. Vents all open, after a while blazing away but not that much heat. Close the vents down and suddenly the fire is hot. So the fire is hot when there is not much air flowing up the chimney, the combustion box temperature is high.

 

If you have single skin. The flue gasses cool as they rise and so you need more air going through the fire to maintain the flow, ie more hot gasses flowing into the bottom of the flue to maintain the flow of the cooler gasses at the top.

If you have double skin, you can shut the vent dos further, and with a smaller flow of air/gas up the chimney since it remains hot at the top. So whilst the flue gasses exit hotter, they do so in a much lower volume and the reduced air flowing through the fire means the combustion is hotter.

 

Secondly, practical example. Our gliding club clubhouse has a double-height main room (same height as the hangar. We had a stove with single skin flue, the room always seemed cold and draughty. One of our members had a stove installing business and he fitted us a new stove of the same output, but he was adamant it was best done with a double skin flue. This was done at cost price so he had no incentive to upsell. The room is concrete block wall and floor so no fire issue.

 

The difference was very noticeable, the room was warmer, less draughty and we used much less wood.

[rjasmith]

 

Not doubting you, but can you provide some explanation / justification ?

 

Nick has perhaps seen this little paper by Glyn Hughes of Soliftec, as I have although I too have difficulty going along with what it says.

 

There are probably many other factors like how good you are at controlling your stove as it burns etc that can affect efficiency.

 

Richard

[nicknorman]

Nick has perhaps seen this little paper by Glyn Hughes of Soliftec, as I have although I too have difficulty going along with what it says.

 

No haven't seen that before, it was the practical experience as I mentioned in my last post that made me realise, and then think about why.

[Alan de Enfield]

Yes.

 

Firstly consider lighting your stove. Vents all open, after a while blazing away but not that much heat. Close the vents down and suddenly the fire is hot. So the fire is hot when there is not much air flowing up the chimney, the combustion box temperature is high.

 

If you have single skin. The flue gasses cool as they rise and so you need more air going through the fire to maintain the flow, ie more hot gasses flowing into the bottom of the flue to maintain the flow of the cooler gasses at the top.

If you have double skin, you can shut the vent dos further, and with a smaller flow of air/gas up the chimney since it remains hot at the top. So whilst the flue gasses exit hotter, they do so in a much lower volume and the reduced air flowing through the fire means the combustion is hotter.

 

Secondly, practical example. Our gliding club clubhouse has a double-height main room (same height as the hangar. We had a stove with single skin flue, the room always seemed cold and draughty. One of our members had a stove installing business and he fitted us a new stove of the same output, but he was adamant it was best done with a double skin flue. This was done at cost price so he had no incentive to upsell. The room is concrete block wall and floor so no fire issue.

 

The difference was very noticeable, the room was warmer, less draughty and we used much less wood.

 

Thank you - I have read it & don't fully understand the justification.

With a single skin flue the air cools as it rises (hence the formation of clouds), however due to the high temperature in the flue compared to the 'outside' temperature, even when cooled considerably by giving off some of its heat to the flue (and hence to the boat) the temperature differential is still high enough that the 'hot air' continues to rise without needing 'more air to push it up the flue'.

I would have thought that the greater external / internal temperature differential of the twin flu system would have meant that the air was rising faster and therefore a greater volume of air was being 'lost' (used).

 

The higher the temperature difference, the faster the air rises and the more air 'rushes in' to replace it.

(Notice the wind speed increase as a thermal passes over)

 

I will do some more reading on the subject.

 

As an aside (as you may recall) we own a static caravan park, several of the 'van owners' have asked if they can have SF fires fitted. We sourced a SF Stove fitter for them and without fail he fitted single skin flues in each 'van' arguing (as I did) about heat loss 'up the chimney'