Oven & Hob - 500mm/600mm boat/domestic?

[Johny London]

Hello again, everyone was so helpful with my battery issue, this time I thought I'd ask before the event rather than after though!

 

I'm hoping to fit my kitchen very soon - at least get all the cabinets and worktops in (before I break off to paint the boat). I have it all planned, but need to decide on the size of space for the built in oven and hob. I'm not a fan of stand alone.

 

I'm after something that looks as "normal" (ie domestic) as possible, and had thought to go with domestic appliances and just change the jets for LPG - I see both Ikea and Wickes include the different jets with their products, for a start.

Then my mind turned to the digital display - easy, just get a basic oven. Then I thought about the ignition spark thing and after googling found that sometimes you can change that for 12v.

Then, perhaps a final nail in the coffin for the domestic argument - the ovens often have a cooling fan that needs to run so as the controls don't start to melt, so again if its 240v could be a problem.

 

Of course - I do currently have the 240v running all the time - courtesy of my Victron - I know that is another topic for some debate, and although I don't see the 0.5a (?) self consumption as too much of a problem, my instinct tells me to move towards 12v whenever I can.

 

So - thoughts? Pros and cons? In particular - whats the best 12v oven and hob out there? I like chrome

 

Thanks

[Alan de Enfield]

One thing to give serious consideration to is FFD (Flame Failure Device) this is mandatory to get your BSSC, but many 'domestic' appliances do not have it - it would be a shame to go to all the expense of buying a Hob, changing the jets for LPG, cutting holes in the worktop, fitting the hob, paying someone to come and connect it all up - then - The BSS man comes and fails your boat and tells you, "you need to buy a different Hob", then he will come back and issue a BSSC.

 

Hope that gives you something to consider.

[Paul C]

I'd finalise the cooker before doing any more cabinet work, since you need to read the manual and comply with its installation requirements. Plenty of domestic 500mm wide cookers too.

[Johny London]

Hi Alan,

 

I forgot to mention about the ffd - I'm aware of it already.

 

I've got the space for 600mm, but actually it is good to know that if I do go 500mm I haven't burnt my bridges in the domestic camp

[BlueStringPudding]

I spent ages researching for my new cooker two years ago. I ended up with a gas Hotpoint that has AA battery ignition, no cooling/circulating fan and no need to be wired in to any electrics at all. The jets were changeable to LPG. What's more it was very inexpensive compared to marine cookers, freestanding and fit into the small gap I have in the kitchen (500mm I think) plus it has the obligatory flame failure device on every flame. I'll see if I can find it online - it came in black, white or grey at the time. It's not a sexy chrome thing, I'm afraid.

 

Edited to add: pretty sure it's this one:

http://www.very.co.uk/hotpoint-hag51k-50cm-twin-cavity-gas-cooker-with-fsd-black/745401001.prd?sku=sku13589916&cm_mmc=google-_-PLA+-+Electricals-_-Electricals+-+Cookers+-+Freestanding-_-na_85148976538&utm_medium=cpc&k_clickid=92d18341-5873-4657-9fd5-4ce1158cd37d&utm_source=google&utm_campaign=Shopping_Electricals%20-%20eCPC%20Test&utm_term=na&utm_content=85148976538&profileid=402&keywordid=na&productgroupid=pg284489&device=m&gclid=Cj0KEQjwo5--BRCS8ceLjv-XppUBEiQAGp15EEWKZEQal1kKQwglFT1IitvQDYobMWQfjG-_AFCiwxcaAhck8P8HAQ

Edited September 2, 2016 by BlueStringPudding

[Johny London]

Thanks for going to the trouble of finding that for me - I'm really after separate built in oven and built in hob though. I guess it's going to be a long old research for me too then!

I'm surprised there haven't been lots of nay sayers regarding the domestic option! I'm really after something that suits my asthetic tastes but also covers the necessary boaty-ness! Thinking about it a single oven will do fine, especially if most of those with the two compartments are really just a grill/oven.

I saw this...

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/THETFORD-SPINFLO-DUPLEX-OVEN-GRILL-motorhome-caravan-boat-campervan-horsebox/131882580630?_trksid=p2055119.c100022.m2048&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20140122153843%26meid%3De73720f1dc0545c0b7b80fba7cc20165%26pid%3D100022%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D4%26mehot%3Dlo%26sd%3D291730092051

Its in black but looks ok to my eye.

[WotEver]

I saw this...

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/THETFORD-SPINFLO-DUPLEX-OVEN-GRILL-motorhome-caravan-boat-campervan-horsebox/131882580630?_trksid=p2055119.c100022.m2048&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20140122153843%26meid%3De73720f1dc0545c0b7b80fba7cc20165%26pid%3D100022%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D4%26mehot%3Dlo%26sd%3D291730092051...

Which you could marry to this...

http://m.ebay.co.uk/itm/Spinflo-Stoves-touring-caravan-kitchen-gas-hob-4-burner-hob-with-grill-CAV007-/222222361277?hash=item33bd7c22bd%3Ag%3A34EAAOSw-itXtIX7&_trkparms=pageci%253A17bc8268-70f4-11e6-82db-005056b2545a%257Cparentrq%253Aea57c3271560a793ad67cab0fff7bcd0%257Ciid%253A6

 

But they're not very 'domestic'.

[Alan de Enfield]

We have a built in "double oven" with a separate Hob & grill beneath so it is definitely 'do-able'.

 

Microwave above the 'top' oven.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Johny London]

Wow, that's nice

[Alan de Enfield]

Wow, that's nice

 

Thank you.

 

14 foot beam with the dining room opposite the kitchen.

 

 

We prefer to keep all the 'cooking & eating stuff' out of the way of the living areas.

[GoodGurl]

to the OP, have you measured doors to see what width you can get in? we have a 600mm cooker but had to take the handles off and bring it in through the sliding hatch.

[adam1uk]

Plenty of new build boats have domestic full sized ovens and separate hobs. From memory, Belling seems to be a popular make. With the hob, make sure you can position it so the rear burners aren't too close to the cabin sides, or you could end up setting them on fire. If you can cope with three rings, then there are some hobs which have three in a row, which solves that problem.

[Fuel__2001]

Have a look at Baumatic, these have lpg jets and FFD as standard on their gas appliances. They run off 240v; even if you aren't connected to the mains and use matches to light the hob the FFD still works.

The oven fan will also run off a sine wave inverter.

[Johny London]

I checked my doors and can clear a 600mm wide unit - looks as though the boat builders thought of that!

 

I'd like a 600mm domestic oven, but what with them having cooling fans, and the possibility of maybe or maybe not being able to change the ignition module to 12v, I wonder if I should just go for a proper 12v/lpg in the first place?

I saw this particular model of Belling that was on Midland chandlers...

http://www.midlandchandlers.co.uk/store/category/1554/product/n44.aspx

I presume it is 12v ready and I believe it doesn't have a fan at all - I've seen the exact same model a fair bit cheaper too...

http://www.cookersandovens.co.uk/Belling-BI70MLPG-Built-Under-70cm-Stainless-Steel-Gas-Double-Oven.html?utm_source=google_shopping&gclid=Cj0KEQjw0rm-BRCn85bm8uS-zK0BEiQAHo4vrIKsPGL7kPlCDf724qDKNHvcQlNrZk_UetwVaEhFlnsaApQW8P8HAQ

 

It's certainly the kind of thing I'm after even though it does have a digital display - anyone got one? I presume you can get a hob to match.

 

Edit: just discovered it is mains ignition!

Edited September 7, 2016 by Johny London

[David Mack]

I checked my doors and can clear a 600mm wide unit - looks as though the boat builders thought of that!

 

I'd like a 600mm domestic oven, but what with them having cooling fans, and the possibility of maybe or maybe not being able to change the ignition module to 12v, I wonder if I should just go for a proper 12v/lpg in the first place?

I saw this particular model of Belling that was on Midland chandlers...

http://www.midlandchandlers.co.uk/store/category/1554/product/n44.aspx

I presume it is 12v ready and I believe it doesn't have a fan at all - I've seen the exact same model a fair bit cheaper too...

http://www.cookersandovens.co.uk/Belling-BI70MLPG-Built-Under-70cm-Stainless-Steel-Gas-Double-Oven.html?utm_source=google_shopping&gclid=Cj0KEQjw0rm-BRCn85bm8uS-zK0BEiQAHo4vrIKsPGL7kPlCDf724qDKNHvcQlNrZk_UetwVaEhFlnsaApQW8P8HAQ

 

It's certainly the kind of thing I'm after even though it does have a digital display - anyone got one? I presume you can get a hob to match.

 

Edit: just discovered it is mains ignition!

 

The oven light and timer are probably mains too. The light would run off a MSW invertor, but the timer/display may need PSW.

[Johny London]

Yeh, you're prolly right - as it was from a chandlers I initially got all excited (thinking it was full lpg/boat/12v spec etc) as it looks good. But in reality it is no better than buying a domestic oven (for half the price) and changing the jets (and a lot of them do come with the lpg jets it seems).

So, kinda back to square one for me.

If I end up with a 240v oven/hob, I might just as well buy a 240v fridge freezer and be done - I like the idea of 240v being available at all times - but hey that's a hot topic for another discussion altogether!

[Paul C]

You could always decide you don't need the clock/timer to work on the cooker, then your range is much expanded. How old is the boat and are you building it to RCD spec or ignoring that? If it has a fan, no reason not to turn (the mains) on before you use it, and turn it off afterwards inc the inverter etc. A hassle but easily gotten used to on a boat. Personally I'd not worry too much about a clock on a cooker.

[Johny London]

Yes, I didn't really want a clock (presume it's a timer too as they usually are?) but I don't fancy turning the mains on and off all the time. The boat is new - what's rcd spec? Do you mean the rcd's on the consumer unit?

[Paul C]

Recreational craft directive

[Johny London]

Oh, well the boat has a certificate for RCD which is valid for a year until I get it inspected, so I'd be as well to keep everything in order and comply with any regs. Is there anything in particular regarding the oven/hob that you were thinking of? I know about the flame failure devices.

[Paul C]

Oh, well the boat has a certificate for RCD which is valid for a year until I get it inspected, so I'd be as well to keep everything in order and comply with any regs. Is there anything in particular regarding the oven/hob that you were thinking of? I know about the flame failure devices.

 

Was it bought as a sailaway or a completed boat?

[Johny London]

It was a sailaway with extras, that's why I've got so many things I urgently need to get on with - stove, kitchen, exterior paint etc!

[Paul C]

There's plenty of info out there, but here is my understanding: a sailaway doesn't come with an RCD. Its sold as a "part complete" boat with a certificate which details the level of completion: An Annexe III declaration. It is up to the next owner to either: 1) complete the boat to RCD standard and certify it as such. The RCD standard includes many technical details which are not in the public domain (but findable), and requires various things are properly documented and kept with the boat. 2) part-complete the boat, to be sold to another who completes it as in 1, or 3) chooses not to follow the RCD route, instead ensuring the boat is eligible for a licence by adhering to the standards of, and having a boat tested to, the BSS at the appropriate time (ie before your 1 year certificate runs out). By not following RCD, there are additional restrictions eg you can't offer the boat for sale within 5 years of completion etc. Also there is an impact on the (sale) value of a boat without RCD.

 

I'm certainly no expert on the RCD so its definitely worth doing some research, and other posters correcting me etc! But I believe one of the favourite things is that they ask the cooker/whatever the appliance is, is installed in accordance with the manufacturer's instructions. Hence my original question relating to the manufacturer's guidance for location of the cooker in the kitchen and various clearance requirements around it etc.

[Johny London]

Blimey, just what I need right now! But thanks for the info. Obviously I've got plenty on my plate at the moment, but thankfully still 8 months till I have to get the bss - yes I have a coc for 1 year.

Will continue to research regarding the oven/hob scenario.... of course there's no gas as yet (! don't go there!).

[Johny London]

And so into 2017 and I never got my Turkey - the kitchen is still unfinished as I can't figure out the hob and oven. I've more questions about rcd and bss but I'll start another thread for that.

 

In the meantime, it appears that Thetford don't make hobs to match their ovens (can anyone find a matching hob for this: https://www.abcwebchandler.com/products/galley-bathroom/cookers/midi-prima-mk4-half-oven-grill- I've been in touch with Thetford US but they'd never even heard of this model!).

 

So, back to the domestic ovens, plenty around with lpg option and the double ovens are usually two proper ovens (unlike the Thetford where one can only grill). I even saw some black glass hobs which will look great on my black sparkly worktop. So I looked up the instruction manuals for three different ones - one said "Do not ft this appliance on a boat" another said "ensure that all regulations particular to your installation are followed (or words to that effect) and anther I just couldn't find.

 

What I'm wondering is 1. would hobs with large burners (ie over 3kw) be dangerous due to the amount of air required (not that I need a wok burner, but I presume a worst case scenario would be taken into account ie total air needed if all burners are active) and 2. the rear burners would be close to the boat wall - is that "ok" if you use tiles or metal? I've looked at pictures of boats for sale and have seen all variety of installations, often with big hobs in small spaces.

 

When I say "ok" I mean at least able to pass the bss - and for me to be reasonably happy too.

 

I'd like to hear from anyone with a full size gas hob in a tight space (my worktops will be going under the gunnel's so it only leaves me 51cm depth). Thanks