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My widebeam house boat refurbishment project


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Hi from the feedback i had received from a recent post I have decided to make a thread on this build. You are all welcome to give me your comments and advice...

 

We brought this boat a few weeks ago without a survey and used this against the seller to get it cheaper. We understand that the boat needs to come out the water with possible need for plating and blacking ect. The boatyard we are at the guy is aware and is on his list of things to do however he is very laid back kind of man so could be any time.

We are moored up near Hampton Court on a lovely location with toilets shower and water ect.

The boat itself is a fixer upper needs work all round and doesn't have an engine. I will add pictures and writing of our progress as we go...

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Whilst I was on the roof catching a tan and painting steph my other half was starting on the inside ripping out. We decided to start at the bedroom so that we could have somewhere to sleepish. We would like to put a door out onto the back where the engine is so our plan is to have a cupboard either side and a door in the middle leading to the back however due to the bulkhead being there we can see a problem with head height so my vague plan at the moment is to build a glass upstand above the stairs and move the door to the top of the stairs to take advantage of natural light into the room...

post-27074-0-47270000-1472581588_thumb.jpgpost-27074-0-52412500-1472581606_thumb.jpgpost-27074-0-51320500-1472581629_thumb.jpg

Please feel free to add any advice as to what you've done here...

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Davestampy1, on 30 Aug 2016 - 7:18 PM, said:Davestampy1, on 30 Aug 2016 - 7:18 PM, said:

Here are some before pictures above. As you can see its very 70s. This weekend I started on the roof I painted it in fibreglass resin anthracite paint got a bit carried away and painted a few other bits to get rid of the horrible blue...attachicon.gifFB_IMG_1472580881376.jpgattachicon.gifFB_IMG_1472580891823.jpg

 

From the pics I don't think it's Ash Island - more like where the Swiss Cottage used to be (well it was falling down when I passed it last year.

Moe like opposite Platt's Eyot with a view of the exceedingly expensive houseboats on that island.

The description of the boatyard also fits (though I don't know who now 'owns' Ash Island - it still bears the name of an illustrious Thames family...)

A great location said to be exceedingly expensive as a mooring (well 'tis for ordinary boating folk.

Edit: Great looking barge with loadsa' room and would be wonderful to see it actually moving on the River, though you'd need some large fenders to keep the roof away from the lock walls....

Edited by OldGoat
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Yes I see now. Didn't look at pics just read the text in first post :rolleyes:

I always go round the back there past Thames Voyages boatyard rather than the normal channel so will look out for it.

Edited by magnetman
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Will look out for you on the way down as we are coming down to London from Marlow over the next few days smile.png

 

Or are you on ash island - if so its up the weir stream so not visible on passing.

Give us a wave and a toot as you pass us, we are moored at Boune End near the Spade Oak. Moving off tomorrow up River.

Fred

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There seems to be an assumption (by some of the above 'posters') that you will be fitting an engine and going cruising, ie 'give us a toot as you go past' and 'watch the roof when you go thru tunnels' etc.

 

Just be aware that as a 'houseboat' VAT would not have been paid on this vessel, or on any of the components of the build

Once you convert it into a 'boat' (ie by adding an engine) then VAT would be chargeable.

 

As far as I know there is no 'time limit' and the VAT man can go way back. The VAT liability is with you the 'owner' not any previous owner - it is you modifying the boat.

 

It may be worth speaking to your accountant before you go 'too far down the road'

 

The HMRCE definition of a 'Houseboat' is very different o C&RTs definition of a houseboat

 

The VAT treatment of houseboats HMRC Notice 701/20

7.1 What is a houseboat?

A houseboat is defined for the purposes of VAT as being a floating decked structure

  • which is designed or adapted for use solely as a place of permanent habitation, and
  • which does not have the means of, and which is not capable of being readily adapted for, self-propulsion
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<p>

 

There seems to be an assumption (by some of the above 'posters') that you will be fitting an engine and going cruising, ie 'give us a toot as you go past' and 'watch the roof when you go thru tunnels' etc.

 

Just be aware that as a 'houseboat' VAT would not have been paid on this vessel, or on any of the components of the build

Once you convert it into a 'boat' (ie by adding an engine) then VAT would be chargeable.

 

As far as I know there is no 'time limit' and the VAT man can go way back. The VAT liability is with you the 'owner' not any previous owner - it is you modifying the boat.

 

It may be worth speaking to your accountant before you go 'too far down the road'

 

The HMRCE definition of a 'Houseboat' is very different o C&RTs definition of a houseboat

 

The VAT treatment of houseboats HMRC Notice 701/20 7.1 What is a houseboat?

A houseboat is defined for the purposes of VAT as being a floating decked structure

  • which is designed or adapted for use solely as a place of permanent habitation, and
  • which does not have the means of, and which is not capable of being readily adapted for, self-propulsion

The give us a toot was addressed to me as I will be passing Drayke today apparently :)

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I doubt this boat was built and taxed as a 'houseboat' in the first place, so I'd be surprised if there was any VAT to pay

 

Richard

 

I cannot imagine any boat builder building a boat of that shape as a 'cruising boat', what makes you think it isn't / wasn't a houseboat ?

 

With regard to the VAT the OP will no doubt be able to answer the question as he will have received either a VAT paid receipt, a "T2L" certificate or a VAT exemption certificate from the previous owner.

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I cannot imagine any boat builder building a boat of that shape as a 'cruising boat', what makes you think it isn't / wasn't a houseboat ?

 

With regard to the VAT the OP will no doubt be able to answer the question as he will have received either a VAT paid receipt, a "T2L" certificate or a VAT exemption certificate from the previous owner.

 

Because I think it was a mud hopper

 

Richard

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Judging by the hatch on the deck you are probably right - watertight compartment to stop it sinking.

 

It could be a houseboat but I'm not sure they would have those hatches.

Whereas mud hoppers always have them.

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I'm just wondering if it is an old gravel barge ? I think they used to have some tugs and barges at harefield at some point in the past - one of the tugs was at rickmansworth recently maybe still is.

Yes :rolleyes:

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I cannot imagine any boat builder building a boat of that shape as a 'cruising boat', what makes you think it isn't / wasn't a houseboat ?

 

With regard to the VAT the OP will no doubt be able to answer the question as he will have received either a VAT paid receipt, a "T2L" certificate or a VAT exemption certificate from the previous owner.

 

By the looks of it, this boat (at least the hull) was most likely built before 1973 because of the rivits, which aren't welded on washers I guess, so before VAT existed anyway.

 

Peter.

Edited by bargemast
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Just be aware that as a 'houseboat' VAT would not have been paid on this vessel, or on any of the components of the build

Once you convert it into a 'boat' (ie by adding an engine) then VAT would be chargeable.

 

It depends upon who the OP bought it from. If the seller was VAT registered there would be VAT chargable on the sale. However as it was clearly defined as a houseboat at that time the VAT would be charged at zero% - although it would fall within the scope of the tax there would be nothing to pay.

 

Assuming the OP is a private individual and not VAT registered any subsequent sale by him would be outside the scope of VAT, so again there would be nothing to pay, but for a different reason.

 

If the original seller was a VAT registered business or if the OP is then that would be a different matter, but if the OP is a VAT registered business he would doubtless know that already. An other possibility is that it was sold by the yard on brokerage, in which case I believe there would have been VAT chargable on the brokerage fee but not on the vessel itself - I could be wrong on that is I'm rather out of touch in that regard.

 

(none of this is legal advice of course smile.png )

 

 

Tam

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The woman I brought it off wasn't vat registered as far as I know and I am not vat registered. I am not aware that I needed to pay any vat so the project will go on as it is. With regards to it being a muddy hopper could this bulkhead be cut out ?

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It depends upon who the OP bought it from. If the seller was VAT registered there would be VAT chargable on the sale.

 

(none of this is legal advice of course smile.png )

 

 

Tam

 

My understanding is that it is not subject to VAT on this sale, but the historical non payment of the VAT on the vessel being built (if indeed it was claimed as being built as a house boat). This liability follows the boat all the way down its history, with the first person to make in a 'non-houseboat' being the one being liable for the VAT (they do not have to be VAT registered - just as 'Joe-Public' is not VAT registered but still pay VAT on goods purchased).

 

I did a fair bit of research into the subject of boats and VAT when I was looking at importing a boat(s) into the UK from the USA.

Even as a non- VAT registered individual I had to pay VAT on the purchase price & the shipping cost of any vessel (I was looking at 2nd hand boats) from outside the EU.

 

I recently purchased a boat from Croatia, which although used in within the EU (Slovenia and subsequently sold to a Croatian) had actually been registered in the USA to avoid paying the £60,000 of VAT. This payment would have become due when I arrived at my 1st UK port of entry.

 

Apparently since Croatia's accession to the EU an 'armistice' has been allowed and certain things can now 'be sorted out.' generally by a contribution to the 'coffee fund'

I eventually 'had a word' with the Croatian Customs and they issued me with a 'Retrospective T2L" form stamped by the Slovenian C&E confirming that VAT had been paid and that I was free to leave the country, a free to enter the UK with no monies due.

 

Lagoon 380 T2L.pdf

 

 

As what is obviously an 'old hull', and probably a DIY conversion, I agree that the OP is very unlikely to be 'hit' with a VAT demand. It is, however, something that should be born in mind if others are looking to buy / sell / modify houseboats.

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When I was buying my widebeam there was some ambiguity over its VAT position (and i didnt want a surprise 20k bill somewhere down the line). I couldnt get a clear answer from anyone involved (broker or the seller etc) and I found this lady http://www.annlhumphrey.com/anns-publications/books/

 

I engaged in a bit of chat with her and she said everyhting I needed to know about boats and VAT would be found in this online document she created after getting asked the same questions time and time again (small fee for charity) and in the unlikely event it wasnt addressed in the document then she could be engaged further on specifics.

 

Armed with this purchase I was comfortable on my boat purchase and then I subsequently got a 744c qualifying ship letter from the boat builder so now I don't pay VAT on my mooring or on anything I purchase for the boat (providing the suppliers will sell to me at zero rate - not all will as too much hassle). I had wondered whether your vessel might qualify under 744c however I suspect its size wouldnt, although having been a barge prior to conversion it is possible it might - not completely up to date on all the rules and all that.

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