Rifle on the roof

[Carrie]

Phew - a voice of reason. Thanks Moley.

[NB Alnwick]

No it doesn't, it started off discussing one twonk who perceives a threat and carries a firearm, and periodically returns to that subject and the legal implications, but then goes off into all manner of daftness until a Mod comes along.

 

I think we've already established here and previously to everyone's satisfaction that incidents are few and far between, and that a smile and perhaps a camera would usually be quite sufficient protection.

 

In all seriousness - the risks from so called 'bandits' are no worse on the canals than they are if you live in a house. A sensible approach usually works but unlike the house if you find the neighbourhood unpleasant - then it is relatively easy to start the engine and move somewhere else . . .

 

As for keeping a weapon on the roof - the biggest risk must be that someone will steal it and use it

[Keeping Up]

... then goes off into all manner of daftness until a Mod comes along ...

Precisely - and if the children don't stop misbehaving they'll have their heads banged together and then they'll ALL be sent up to bed without any supper!

[tomsk]

A nice cup of Earl Gray and a fondant fancy anyone?

[Chris J W]

A nice cup of Earl Gray and a fondant fancy anyone?

Could I have a coffee and a jaffa-cake?

[tomsk]

Could I have a coffee and a jaffa-cake?

 

If you must....

[Chris J W]

If you must....

Ta! S'lovley!

[Jo]

I received an e-mail this morning from someone at the BASC (British Association for shooting and Conservation), and here is what he had to say on the laws for carrying a rifle.

Maybe this will clarify things.

 

Firstly with regards to your comments about ‘bandits’ - the law allows a person to use reasonable force to protect persons and property and each case must be assessed on its merits as to whether the person’s actions were justified and not pre-meditated.

 

With regards to the air rifle, it is not an offence for an air weapon to be kept in or on the narrow boat as it is not a public place. This includes sitting on the boat in full view e.g. for cleaning etc. the narrow boat is a private place. But sadly with any visible gun these days, people think that this is ‘not right’ or ‘against the law’ and phone the police, where the complainant may be charged with wasting police time if the gun is found to be legally held, but it is down to all of us to individually exercise common sense.

 

If the narrow boat is using a public right of way (waterway) and the air weapon is taken from the boat to another place to be used i.e. where the person has permission, this is allowed - he has a reasonable excuse to take that gun through that public place to enable it to be used on private premises elsewhere.

 

If the air weapon was used to shoot at things around the boat that were on other people’s property or owned by other people, an offence of criminal damage would be committed but is has to be proven! Later this year a new offence of firing a pellet beyond the firer’s permitted premises comes into effect.

 

The following code of practice may also be of use to you - http://www.basc.org.uk/content/airriflepractice

 

Also reading the may help.

"British Waterways Bye-Law 46

 

No Person shall throw, shoot or otherwise propel any stone, bullet, shot or other missile from, into or over any vessel or canal

 

£100 fine for breach.

 

In addition;

 

1) It is an offence to have a loaded weapon in a public place (and a canal is a public place)

2) It is an offence to fire a weapon without the permission of the landowner. "

Edited May 10, 2007 by Jo

[carlt]

Many moons ago, whilst working in South Africa I had the following conversation with an Afrikaner collegue.

He: "I missed a great chance on Sunday"

Me: "Oh yes, what was that?"

He: A kaffir tried to break into a house, and when he was seen he fled through the gardens right in front of me"

Me: So what chance did you miss?"

He: If I'd had my gun on me, I could have shot him!"

 

This guy just wanted to shoot a "kaffir".

Similarly, in my opinion, this bloke with the air rifle wants to use it. It will be revenge for every slight he has ever suffered. By showing the weapon off he is saying "Look at my potency! see how dominant and unafraid I am".

Going back a bit but I thought I'd relate this amusing little story.

I'd just moved into a new building in Paris which, apart from me was entirely populated by senegalese and nigerian folk (oh the parties we had!). The 'woman that does', a white french lady, who cleaned the stair wells and public areas was chatting to me one day when the conversation took a very disturbing turn. "Don't you hate the kaffirs in this building?" she muttered darkly "sorry?" I exclaimed. "The kaffirs, they're disgusting and dirty and they should all die!", "you can't say things like that!" I replied, disgusted "I like them and wish them no harm!". "But they're filthy and carry disease!" she insisted "they all deserve to die!". With my best indignated french I told her "madame you are a horrible racist and I won't be talking to you ever again!", slammed my door in her face and stormed around my flat, horrified.

 

Later I was relating this tale to my friend, Christine, who had been in France many more years than me. When she had finally finished the hysterical laughter and wiped away the tears, she explained to me that cafard is french for cockroach. Whoops!

 

but this debate has got silly anyway.

[Moley]

Jo, thanks for taking the time to raise this question outside the forum. I'm not sure it does clarify anything, if anything some of the information is now becoming contradictory.

 

So, you're within your rights to have an air weapon onboard (as it's your own private property) but you mustn't discharge it away from that vessel, and you may use reasonable force to protect yourself or your property if threatened, but could face a long jail term if you threatened anyone with that weapon or used it against them.

 

As clear as mud. Where's Eugene?

[Big Steve]

This Public Place thing is a bit confusing, your own car is a public place, I can't understand that. A couple of years ago a chap had a dangerous dog in his car, unmuzzled, the police took it away and had it put down, bloody ridiculous.

 

How about paintball guns? Shooting the yobs with one of those would be great fun. Anyone ever tried firing paintballs from a catapult? Can you get indelible paint balls?

[Grasshopper]

British Association for shooting and Conservation

 

That has an oddly Orwellian ring to it. A bit like the Ministry of Peace in 1984.........................

[THE BREWERY]

OK JUST TO PUT A SPANNER IN THE WORKS AN " AIR RIFLE IS NOT A FIREARM IF IT WAS YOU WOULD HAVE TO HAVE A CERTIFICATE " AS FOR POLICING THE WATERWAYS WHEN DID YOU LAST TRY TO GET A POLICEMAN OR POLICEPERSON TO COME TO YOUR ADE. TAKE THE LAW IN TO YOUR OWN HANDS THEN DENY EVERYTHING

[mayalld]

OK JUST TO PUT A SPANNER IN THE WORKS AN " AIR RIFLE IS NOT A FIREARM IF IT WAS YOU WOULD HAVE TO HAVE A CERTIFICATE " AS FOR POLICING THE WATERWAYS WHEN DID YOU LAST TRY TO GET A POLICEMAN OR POLICEPERSON TO COME TO YOUR ADE. TAKE THE LAW IN TO YOUR OWN HANDS THEN DENY EVERYTHING

 

1) Nobody suggested that an air rifle is a firearm

2) Despite not being a firearm, there are offences that can be committed with an air weapon.

3) I last tried to get a copper at home 2 weeks ago, and they were there in 4 minutes. On the boat about 10 months ago, and they arrived in 6 minutes.

4) Deny everything doesn't actually work

5) DON'T TYPE IN ALL CAPITALS, BECAUSE IT'S THE SAME AS SHOUTING

[Moley]

AN AIR RIFLE IS NOT A FIREARM

 

QUITE RIGHT, APOLOGIES IF I USED THAT TERM OUT OF CONTEXT!

 

AS FOR POLICING THE WATERWAYS WHEN DID YOU LAST TRY TO GET A POLICEMAN OR POLICEPERSON TO COME TO YOUR ADE.

 

I BET THEY'D GET THERE QUICK ENOUGH IF YOU SHOT AT THE LITTLE DARLINGS!

 

AND I'M ADE, I THINK YOU MEAN AID!

 

AND MAYALLD'S RIGHT, LOWER YOUR VOICE

[Nobber]

did sumwon say thay wontid a worter cannern

 

 

and then if the norty boyz runned off and told the pleesman thayd been soked by a pink eflant thayd get a thik eer for telling storyz

[mayalld]

did sumwon say thay wontid a worter cannern

 

 

and then if the norty boyz runned off and told the pleesman thayd been soked by a pink eflant thayd get a thik eer for telling storyz

Mr Baites seems to have a new identity :-(

[Sir Nibble]

Mr Baites seems to have a new identity :-(

No, I'm truly sorry to have to tell you this, but Nobber is an established member of this forum, and is in fact a magic flying pink elephant. Think of him as a mascot.

[mayalld]

No, I'm truly sorry to have to tell you this, but Nobber is an established member of this forum, and is in fact a magic flying pink elephant. Think of him as a mascot.

 

In which case, the post counter seems to be broken.

[carlt]

In which case, the post counter seems to be broken.

Virtual pub posts aren't counted and this is where nobber normally posts and probably belongs.

[mayalld]

Virtual pub posts aren't counted and this is where nobber normally posts and probably belongs.

 

Ah, I am now better informed.

 

Thanks.

[tomsk]

OK JUST TO PUT A SPANNER IN THE WORKS AN " AIR RIFLE IS NOT A FIREARM IF IT WAS YOU WOULD HAVE TO HAVE A CERTIFICATE " AS FOR POLICING THE WATERWAYS WHEN DID YOU LAST TRY TO GET A POLICEMAN OR POLICEPERSON TO COME TO YOUR ADE. TAKE THE LAW IN TO YOUR OWN HANDS THEN DENY EVERYTHING

 

We havn't got an Ade unless you count Moley, and he's a mole.

[Carrie]

Going back a bit but I thought I'd relate this amusing little story.

I'd just moved into a new building in Paris which, apart from me was entirely populated by senegalese and nigerian folk (oh the parties we had!). The 'woman that does', a white french lady, who cleaned the stair wells and public areas was chatting to me one day when the conversation took a very disturbing turn. "Don't you hate the kaffirs in this building?" she muttered darkly "sorry?" I exclaimed. "The kaffirs, they're disgusting and dirty and they should all die!", "you can't say things like that!" I replied, disgusted "I like them and wish them no harm!". "But they're filthy and carry disease!" she insisted "they all deserve to die!". With my best indignated french I told her "madame you are a horrible racist and I won't be talking to you ever again!", slammed my door in her face and stormed around my flat, horrified.

 

Later I was relating this tale to my friend, Christine, who had been in France many more years than me. When she had finally finished the hysterical laughter and wiped away the tears, she explained to me that cafard is french for cockroach. Whoops!

 

but this debate has got silly anyway.

 

again! This makes me think about my visit to Atherstone recently and the strangest case of racism I've come across so far. I was moored up and a passing dog-walker stopped to ask me polite questions about the boat, what's it like to live afloat etc. My dog was eating grass and I remarked 'oh dear, I hope that doesn't mean he's going to be sick later'

The guy then said 'oh, there's a dog virus going round here'. Then without blinking, he said 'There's a lot of Bosnians arrived in Atherstone - it's probably from them or their dogs. Flabbergasted and not getting his meaning at first, I said their dogs would hardly have travelled from Bosnia, but no - he said it was how dogs are looked after by Bosnians. I've heard of many things blamed on immigrants, but dog sick is a first. Sorry, but just as mad!

[tomsk]

again! This makes me think about my visit to Atherstone recently and the strangest case of racism I've come across so far. I was moored up and a passing dog-walker stopped to ask me polite questions about the boat, what's it like to live afloat etc. My dog was eating grass and I remarked 'oh dear, I hope that doesn't mean he's going to be sick later'

The guy then said 'oh, there's a dog virus going round here'. Then without blinking, he said 'There's a lot of Bosnians arrived in Atherstone - it's probably from them or their dogs. Flabbergasted and not getting his meaning at first, I said their dogs would hardly have travelled from Bosnia, but no - he said it was how dogs are looked after by Bosnians. I've heard of many things blamed on immigrants, but dog sick is a first. Sorry, but just as mad!

 

 

I have heard of this too, Bosnian Dog Blight, apparently introduced to Britain by a small tick carried in Bosnian refugees clothing, apparently far more likely to survive in the illegal immigrant variety as the reduced temperature in the chiller lorries the poor chaps hide in to evade 'La Migra' slow down the ticks lifecycle. Harmless to humans but not much fun for the dogs

[Keith Lodge]

My wife and I were shot at on our way to Coventry on the Coventry Canal in 2005. We took photos, and rang the police. before we reached the terminus we had a call back from the police to ask if they could meet us, as they had the suspects in the police cells, and needed statements from us. Any firearm incident is treated highly by the police.