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bought historic boat going to replate overplate


kevin123

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the chap iv bought it of was born on the canals and showed me pictures of him as a child with his parents all living in a buttie , he seams to know a lot of people and history on the canals , he told me the boat used to go up into the potteries ,

 

Well not all canal "history" proves to be genuine canal "history".

 

"Grand Union" boats like this tended to work on a relatively small part of the Southern canal system, typically London to Birmingham, and on branches like the Northampton Arm / Nene or the one up through Leicester. They did make forays elsewhere, but not that much, I would say.

 

I'm happy to be corrected if evidence can be found, but regular trade in the Potteries would not have been their normal stamping ground, I think.

 

Slough was one of the former British Waterways boats that was leased to Willow Wren Canal Transport Services in the 1960s after BW ceased most of their narrow boat trading operations, and, I assume operated more or less until the end of Willow Wren CTS in 1970. (Pete will probably now tell me I am assuming too much -= it may have been repossessed earlier, possibly!) As such it has appeared in many published photos, and carried the Willow Wren CTS livery of green with red borders.

 

Of course if you intend to leave the cabin much "as is", it is not very much like the cabin it would have carried in its working boat days, so applying any of its historic liveries to that is going to be somewhat of a compromise.

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I may be wrong but I think they did run up to Begarlee Wharf at Langley Mill on the Cromford for a a while. Could be wrong though.

 

You may well be right.

 

With my crap notion of what is where "the Potteries" says Trent an Mersey to me and I wasn't thinking of alternatives. Mind you "Flamingo" operated as a trip boat for the "Potteries Cruising Company" on the T&M, and that is probably what is making that assosciaion in my mind.

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the old fellows surname was barrett carnt remember his first name think was dave mayby something mentioning the name barrett some where will give more history he new that it was with the buttie slinfold and also the brother and sister who worked slough and the brighton

Edited by kevin123
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Well that makes it all look less of a problem then...

 

But if its still a 100mm bottom it will be elm, and I'll be impressed if even your coded guys can weld it!

If as stated its a BIG Town class it would have never have been composite possibly the knees are "canckered" away at the turn side/bottom the bottom may also be thin /cracked as they suffered this in their working days due to flexing the sides in/out slacking/ tightening the chains when loading/unloading.

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Well not all canal "history" proves to be genuine canal "history".

 

"Grand Union" boats like this tended to work on a relatively small part of the Southern canal system, typically London to Birmingham, and on branches like the Northampton Arm / Nene or the one up through Leicester. They did make forays elsewhere, but not that much, I would say.

 

I'm happy to be corrected if evidence can be found, but regular trade in the Potteries would not have been their normal stamping ground, I think.

 

Slough was one of the former British Waterways boats that was leased to Willow Wren Canal Transport Services in the 1960s after BW ceased most of their narrow boat trading operations, and, I assume operated more or less until the end of Willow Wren CTS in 1970. (Pete will probably now tell me I am assuming too much -= it may have been repossessed earlier, possibly!) As such it has appeared in many published photos, and carried the Willow Wren CTS livery of green with red borders.

 

Of course if you intend to leave the cabin much "as is", it is not very much like the cabin it would have carried in its working boat days, so applying any of its historic liveries to that is going to be somewhat of a compromise.

Pre 63 freeze up I cannot remember any Town class boats around the potteries, post 63 most potteries traffic was carried out by versions of Anderton CCC who ran " Joshers " & Northwich/ Pimblott "dustbins" I seem to remember Fred & Rose Gibbs had problems getting an empty "Aberystwyth" under one of the low bridges ISTR they had to dismantle the cratch The only "Town" I remember seeing was "Yeoford" but that was the Aldridge/ Ellesmere Port "Duckhams" very brief contract but that was the Shoppie not any where near the potteries "Star" class possibly yes "Towns" doubtful to high out of the water empty a fair amount of cratch demolishing bridges around that area more so when the T&M water levels were kept up to aid loaded boats.

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the old fellows surname was barrett carnt remember his first name think was dave mayby something mentioning the name barrett some where will give more history he new that it was with the buttie slinfold and also the brother and sister who worked slough and the brighton

If he was referring to Arthur Pearsall, who had the "Slough" and "Brighton" when he knocked off boating in 1953, Arthur worked the boats with his wife, sister-in-law and mother-in law

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Arthur Persall parents where married @ Braunston & Arthur & most of his siblings baptised there as well.

his wife & sister in law where from the Boyes boating family .

My book of family stories tells me that Arthur swapped Barrow for Slough after a nasty Acid related accident @ Frazley st.

Arthurs mother in law died @ Hillmorton 1955 probate records say probate was left to Anna Boyes spinster Sarah Ann

Persall (wife of Arthur Persall ) & Alice Monk widow Effects £761 4s 9d not a bad some of money for a widow of a boatman .

The connection with Alice Monk remains a mystery to me so if anyone can shed a connection to the Boyce & my Monks that would be great.

Arthur also worked the wide boats for Harfeild lime company

photo is Arthur & his sister in law Hanna

sorry forgot to sat this is not my photo it has been sent over to me by a family member

post-8273-0-07101600-1471894968_thumb.jpg

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Arthur Persall parents where married @ Braunston & Arthur & most of his siblings baptised there as well.

his wife & sister in law where from the Boyes boating family .

My book of family stories tells me that Arthur swapped Barrow for Slough after a nasty Acid related accident @ Frazley st.

Arthurs mother in law died @ Hillmorton 1955 probate records say probate was left to Anna Boyes spinster Sarah Ann

Persall (wife of Arthur Persall ) & Alice Monk widow Effects £761 4s 9d not a bad some of money for a widow of a boatman .

The connection with Alice Monk remains a mystery to me so if anyone can shed a connection to the Boyce & my Monks that would be great.

Arthur also worked the wide boats for Harfeild lime company

photo is Arthur & his sister in law Hanna

sorry forgot to sat this is not my photo it has been sent over to me by a family member

Very interesting - thanks! Hannah Boyes, Sarah Ann Pearsall and Alice Monk were sisters - there was a brother John (Jack) who didn't get on with the family so I know nothing of him. There were also, I think, four other siblings who died at a young age, drowned in at least one case Alice was married to Harry Monk . Hannah Boyes lived until the age of 92 and died in 1989.

This was Hannah's photo of the Slough and Brighton, taken at Hillmorton in 1953 when Arthur was moving off into the house at Hillmorton, where he had a job "on the company" as tug driver. Hannah and her mother had left the boats six months earlier due to her mothers age and moved into their canalside house. This didn't stop her mother wanting to jump onto any passing boats that she knew - couldn't give it up!

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Archie 57

It is all starting to fit together now My Cousin Dennis is the Grandson of Harry Monk & thats where the photo comes from

i also have some funeral cards for the Boyce Family.

John that fell out with the family I believe is the one that ended up in Kingston Surrey

one of his children drowned in the Thames

Arthur & siblings all baptised @ Braunston are

John 1896 , William 1898, James 1901, George 1906 , Alice May 1910,Arthur 1913

My G uncle Eli Nixon married another sister of Harry a Elizabeth (Lizzie) Monk .

I have a lot of unnamed photo's given to me by Harry's nephew Arthur Monk

my G aunt Eliza Harrison was a witness @ Arthur's parents wedding

post-8273-0-66302500-1471900777_thumb.jpg

Edited by jeannette smith harrison
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Is this another branch of the Pearsall family- to my knowledge the Arthur I knew was born about 1900 and died 1980. Also he had a brother Tom, famously pictured with the wide boat "Golden Spray" at Brentford, and another Joe who I believe lost an arm in the first war.

I know a Dennis but I thought he was a great-nephew of Harry Monk - I'm starting to get confused now! - are there two Dennis's!

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Yes the same family Tom's wife was called Carrie.

Several Arthurs & Dennis in the family in each generation so yes a bit confusing

My Uncle Joe Harrison once told me that Arthur Pearsall had his Butty Lyra before him.

Looks like iv Put it was paired with Emcaladus or Encaladus (sorry these notes are a bit scribbled)

if this is correct then this is the same Lyra

that was also once owned by Alan fincher's brother

Edited by jeannette smith harrison
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"Enceladus" is the correct spelling, Jeannette, though how you pronounce it is up for some debate.

 

How a former classics master on the Forum says it should be pronounced, is not how most people do!

 

(After a former existence as a BW hire boat, and eventually with a very rotted hull, "Enceladus" is now a smart tug style boat of rather less than 50 feet long)

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"Enceladus" is the correct spelling, Jeannette, though how you pronounce it is up for some debate.

 

How a former classics master on the Forum says it should be pronounced, is not how most people do!

 

(After a former existence as a BW hire boat, and eventually with a very rotted hull, "Enceladus" is now a smart tug style boat of rather less than 50 feet long)

Alan here is a link to the pronunciation.... http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/enceladus

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well guys lots for me to take in trying to keep up, the pic jeannette put on was one i saw trawling the internet a few days ago i believe this is the slough and brighton with brother and sister /sister in law , would anybody know approx weight of the slough as she stands now as im trying arranging to get her lifted , old owner recons around 20-24 ton but mobile crane company says normally about 18 ton empty as it is now with engine out all water tanks empty , going to go big an arrange 80 ton crane i think to be on safe side the draft at the moment is a little over 2' in the water what would be about right when she back in the water for normal cruising regards kevin

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........ , going to go big an arrange 80 ton crane i think to be on safe side ..............

 

I'm sure if you ask, the crane company will advise on the size you should hire.

 

A crane 'rating' (say) 80 tones is at a very short distance from the vehicle - maybe 1 metre away.

As the distance increases the rating drops considerably, it may be 30 ton at 20 metres and 10 tonnes at 40 metres

 

If the crane hire company are not intending to make a site visit before accepting your hire, it may be prudent to tell them that it is 20 tonne and lift of X metres from where the crane can park.

 

I have seen boats that weighed 'not a lot' require the use of two cranes because of the lift / hoist distance

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They draw about 3 ft at deepest point counter on

However with a conversion who knows

Also please be aware Thses boats were designed to do 6 knots loaded towing a loaded butty with an 18 hp or so twin. In deep water with skilled crew.

You do not need any more power putting in silly high rev band power modern engines does not help the handling boating or value, you have to gear them down to turn the prop so they just rev away.

Life on a historic boat doesn't involve point and squirt approach , or bow thrusters more a carefull and skilful assessment of depth wind and the unique charecteristics of the boat. Usually followed by it going wrong

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the draft at the moment is a little over 2' in the water what would be about right when she back in the water for normal cruising regards kevin

 

Does the picture of the rear end that was used in the e-Bay ad reflect how the boat is now?

 

If so, I would say draught is a lot more than 2 feet.

 

The bottom of the rounded counter stern is called the "uxter plate", and when the boat is ballasted down to the point that is just sitting on the surface of the water a Large Northwich "Town" class boat will be drawing at least 2' 10".

 

Your boat will only be drawing as little as 2 feet if that uxter plate is at least 10" above the surface of the water. In the picture I would judge it most certainly isn't.

 

Unless more of it is rusted away than you want to be the case (!) I think your boat will easily weigh 20 tons.

Edited by alan_fincher
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They draw about 3 ft at deepest point counter on

However with a conversion who knows

It should draw 3 feet (nominal) with the counter flat on whether converted or not, the 3 feet being at the stern and the fore end somewhat less - unless very, very heavily ballasted (or loaded in the case of an unconverted boat).

 

In my experience a large G.U.C.C.Co. Ltd. motor is best with the counter slightly out of the water when stationary, so pulling down to flat on when moving forwards captain.gif

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I'm sure if you ask, the crane company will advise on the size you should hire.

 

A crane 'rating' (say) 80 tones is at a very short distance from the vehicle - maybe 1 metre away.

As the distance increases the rating drops considerably, it may be 30 ton at 20 metres and 10 tonnes at 40 metres

 

If the crane hire company are not intending to make a site visit before accepting your hire, it may be prudent to tell them that it is 20 tonne and lift of X metres from where the crane can park.

 

I have seen boats that weighed 'not a lot' require the use of two cranes because of the lift / hoist distance

Absolutely right about the derating of crznes, the further the load is from the crane.

 

I had to use a 1000 tonne crane to put a 40 tonne generator onto the top of a 14 storey building in Docklands once.

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