bought historic boat going to replate overplate

[kevin123]

hi iv just bought a historic 72' northwich (large ) narrow boat , im going overplate it what size plate would you recommend for bottom and side walls iv been told the draft is 3'2" so dont want to add to much weight or it mite take me over 3'4" which i think is the max for the Staffordshire and Worcestershire Canal where it will based so any advise welcome, hopefully your not going to say replate , if you say ok to overplate what would a boat generally lower in the water with added weight approx regards kevin

[stagedamager]

Converted or unconverted and where needs replating?

[alan_fincher]

Converted or unconverted and where needs replating?

 

Looking at the OP's profile, the boat name is "Slough", so I would suggest we are talking converted.

Edited August 21, 2016 by alan_fincher

[kevin123]

yes its converted havent had survey done yet but she is in water at moment with no leaks so thats a good sign i hope its slough 170 iv been told it is original and never been plated in past so since it is 1936 im think it will probably need doing

Edited August 21, 2016 by kevin123

[alan_fincher]

hi iv just bought a historic 72' northwich (large ) narrow boat , im going overplate it what size plate would you recommend for bottom and side walls iv been told the draft is 3'2" so dont want to add to much weight or it mite take me over 3'4" which i think is the max for the Staffordshire and Worcestershire Canal where it will based so any advise welcome, hopefully your not going to say replate , if you say ok to overplate what would a boat generally lower in the water with added weight approx regards kevin

 

I would have thought, (but I am no expert!) that overplating a highly irregular shaped 80 year old riveted hull is a much more specialist job than an over-plate of a modern (and more regularly shaped) welded hull. What work has been done on the hull to date? Does it still have a riveted bottom, and is there any existing patching/overplating.

 

I am currently having steelwork done on a Yarwoods boat of similar age, and, as explained to me, any attempts to overplate or replate the complex bow or swim shapes are a much more specialist job than on the "wedge" shape of most modern narrow boats.

 

By default the static draft of these boats when ballasted so the uxter plate is just sitting on the water is marginally less than 3 feet. I would suggest if you end up with an outcome that puts the uxter plate well under water, you would find progress very slow on a canal like the Staffs and Worcs, (which we have found one of the shallower when with an historic boat). Presumably if the boat is genuinely at over 3 foot draught now, (is that without the engine present? ), there must be loads of ballast that could be taken out to compensate for new steel you are adding.

 

Finally don't forget these boats are already 2 or 3 inches wider than a modern narrow boat. Adding a further half an inch to the boat by overplating the sides may cause it to get stuck in some locks it might otherwise have previously been able to pass through!

[alan_fincher]

i hope its slough 170 iv been told it is original and never been plated in past so since it is 1936 im think it will probably need doing

 

Well it is certainly the real "Slough", unlike another ex GUCCCo boat that now carries that name, but actually started life as "Deimos".

 

Clearly at least the counter it now has is not original Northwich, and must date, I think, from when BW converted the boat to an "inspection launch" in the 1970s era, (which is the point it acquired those dropped hull sides around the large picture windows).

 

The boat has certainly sunk in relatively recent years, but I don't know the details as to why.

[W+T]

Not tat i know anything, but if it a historic boat then i would rebuild it/repair as original spec. Like when restoring a classic car, i would use original panels, if still available.

[alan_fincher]

Not tat i know anything, but if it a historic boat then i would rebuild it/repair as original spec. Like when restoring a classic car, i would use original panels, if still available.

 

Which would mean sticking with riveted construction, and little or no welding. Only achievable at a handful of highly specialist yards able to tackle such work, and wil very quickly cost far more than has been paid for the boat.

 

I'm having work done on a similar age boat now, and actually paying to have stuff left deliberately "as original as possible" including features most people will never actually see. However it is not for the feint hearted, and costs will be much higher than those associated with something not having the same heritage.

 

"Slough" is a boat considerably butchered by British Waterways, and my guess is there will be a lot of hull work done on it in the 1970s that had little respect for its original means of construction - or at least that is often the case with boats they did steelwork on at that time.

[kevin123]

im going to look at the boat this afternoon and will get more details will keep you posted thanks for help so far ,i was told by owner that he has been told cost to overplate would be around 4-7 k regards kevin iv attached ebay item number any thoughts 262585505382

Edited August 21, 2016 by kevin123

[Alan de Enfield]

im going to look at the boat this afternoon and will get more details will keep you posted thanks for help so far ,i was told by owner that he has been told cost to overplate would be around 4-7 k regards kevin iv attached ebay item number any thoughts 262585505382

 

I would suggest that a 'proper job' would cost that for 'each side and the bottom' - ie nearer £15k total.

[RLWP]

yes its converted havent had survey done yet but she is in water at moment with no leaks so thats a good sign i hope its slough 170 iv been told it is original and never been plated in past so since it is 1936 im think it will probably need doing

 

Slough sank in the last couple of years because some of the ballast (welded to the baseplate) was taken out with a crowbar, tearing a hole. Has the bottom plate been replaced?

 

Richard

im going to look at the boat this afternoon and will get more details will keep you posted thanks for help so far ,i was told by owner that he has been told cost to overplate would be around 4-7 k regards kevin iv attached ebay item number any thoughts 262585505382

 

And the rest!

 

Richard

[kevin123]

i believe just repair carried out to balladt plate

Edited August 21, 2016 by kevin123

[Catnip King]

I was interested in slough also. Its going to need some deep pockets. Wouldn't it be better to patch up areas rather than overplate the whole lot?

[alan_fincher]

im going to look at the boat this afternoon and will get more details will keep you posted thanks for help so far ,i was told by owner that he has been told cost to overplate would be around 4-7 k regards kevin iv attached ebay item number any thoughts 262585505382

 

So are you saying you may have actually bought it, without actually seeing it?

 

If so, you are a very much braver man than I could ever be!

 

if the general vibes I have heard about this boat are true, and Richard's comments are correct, I'm afraid I think those numbers for hull repairs are not even in the right ballpark. Three times those numbers might be a better starting "guestimate".

 

I wonder if the forum member who bought "Lancing" may wish to tell us what they have spent on that?

[kevin123]

if i can just patch mite be an option wil have get a report on it have contacted a few inspectors for cost

[Catnip King]

You'll probably only get 3rd party insurance though.

[alan_fincher]

I was interested in slough also. Its going to need some deep pockets. Wouldn't it be better to patch up areas rather than overplate the whole lot?

 

Until someone who really understands 80 year old riveted boats subjected to much neglect has been over it thoroughly, I think most of us are simply speculating. If it genuinely has its original bottoms though, it is very hard to imagine that they don't need replacing throughout,

 

I would have though that bit at least should be "cut out and replace", ideally in a thicker steel (say 10mm). Overplating would make little sense to me.

 

However we don't know things like condition of knees, and, on the sides, how much platework has survived around the knees. Where corrosion gets between knee and external plate, and badly thins the latter, the only proper solution is to cut out and replace affected parts, (something we are currently having done selectively on one of our boats).

[Catnip King]

 

Until someone who really understands 80 year old riveted boats subjected to much neglect has been over it thoroughly, I think most of us are simply speculating. If it genuinely has its original bottoms though, it is very hard to imagine that they don't need replacing throughout,

 

I would have though that bit at least should be "cut out and replace", ideally in a thicker steel (say 10mm). Overplating would make little sense to me.

 

However we don't know things like condition of knees, and, on the sides, how much platework has survived around the knees. Where corrosion gets between knee and external plate, and badly thins the latter, the only proper solution is to cut out and replace affected parts, (something we are currently having done selectively on one of our boats).

Yes speculating is true. Its the trouble with old boats its a risky gamble with no survey. The buyer is very brave and I wish him the best of luck.

[alan_fincher]

im going to look at the boat this afternoon and will get more details will keep you posted thanks for help so far ,i was told by owner that he has been told cost to overplate would be around 4-7 k regards kevin iv attached ebay item number any thoughts 262585505382

Listing is here

[kevin123]

www.ebay.co.uk/itm/262585505382?_trksid=3AMEBIDX%3AIT here is link for ebay

lol you got there first

[Alan de Enfield]

 

Listing is here

 

Is does have a BSS tho (but I bet it was a quick BSS as there appears to be no electric, no gas and there is no engine)

 

£11500 for an engineless boat that needs work.

 

It'll have cost £50,000 by the time its finished.

 

A braver man than I.

[kevin123]

iv looked at the lister engines hr3 he says 55 hp but i can only find it is 36hp that correct

iv got the engine as well hes just had it reconditioned (rebanded)

Edited August 21, 2016 by kevin123

[MtB]

im going to look at the boat this afternoon and will get more details will keep you posted thanks for help so far ,i was told by owner that he has been told cost to overplate would be around 4-7 k regards kevin iv attached ebay item number any thoughts 262585505382

 

 

That ebay number returns no results.

 

If the ebay description says it wil cost £4-7k to overplate I'd say you have a good case to ask for your money back. Or if you haven't yet paid, have the sale anulled.

 

Reading between the lines I get the impression you've bought this boat as a novice not realising that riveted iron construction is nothing like the fabricated of modern boats and needs specialist services to repair. This boat is as big a money pit as any on the cut (possibly the biggest?), so if you thought you'd bought a bargain that just needs a few £k spending on it to make it into a nice leisure boat, I think you should grab any chance the cancel the sale and buy something else.

[Alan de Enfield]

iv looked at the lister engines he says 55 hp but i can only find it is 36hp is that correct

iv got the engine as well hes just had it reconditioned (rebanded)

 

34hp at 2200 rpm

displacement 3138cc

weight 820 lbs

 

If it is an HR3M (Marine) rather than the quoted HR3 then it would be 46.5hp

Edited August 21, 2016 by Alan de Enfield

[MtB]

Useful vintage engine data chart here:

 

http://users.skynet.be/sky34301/engdata.html