Black Jack Bitumen Paint

[Tesla]

According to Everbuild, the manufacturers of said bitumen, it is no longer suitable for water tanks. Which is confusing as some resellers still quote it as being suitable. What I am uncertain of (and waiting on an answer from Everbuild) is whether the change is due to a change to the product or because of a "directive"? Anyone know the answer?

[Neil2]

The COSHH sheet revised in 2015 mentions "bioaccumulation potential" but the current MSDS sheet says, under bioaccumulation,no data available. I imagine this means recent data has become available suggesting the stuff could be absorbed into an organism, even when cured.

 

The tin I have in the garage certainly says it's suitable for water tanks and I bought it less than two years ago so this is a very recent development.

[sharpness]

The tin I have in the garage certainly says it's suitable for water tanks and I bought it less than two years ago so this is a very recent development.

 

 

Likewise, ditto

 

Steve

[tonyt40]

Bioaccumulation would indicate that it harbours bacteria and could provide a surface for biofilm to grow (the jelly like layer that bacteria breed in). In the health care industry where I work bitumen coated tanks have been outlawed on potable water for decades due to potential problems. There is no WRAS approval for this product. Consider that "use in watertanks" may not include use on potable water tanks for domestic useThere are other resin based coatings available that are WRAS approved for use on potable water. WRAS approval looks at products that are suitable for use on potable water systems and do not encourage bacterial growth. In the NHS all fittings And equipment should be WRAS approved before being connected to a system , we can't even use plastic pipe or flexible hoses!!

 

Personally I wouldn't consider using anything other than a resin/two pack coating with WRAS approval on a tank.

Edited August 9, 2016 by tonyt40

[Neil2]

Bioaccumulation would indicate that it harbours bacteria and could provide a surface for biofilm to grow (the jelly like layer that bacteria breed in). In the health care industry where I work bitumen coated tanks have been outlawed on potable water for decades due to potential problems. There is no WRAS approval for this product. Consider that "use in watertanks" may not include use on potable water tanks for domestic useThere are other resin based coatings available that are WRAS approved for use on potable water. WRAS approval looks at products that are suitable for use on potable water systems and do not encourage bacterial growth. In the NHS all fittings And equipment should be WRAS approved before being connected to a system , we can't even use plastic pipe or flexible hoses!!

 

Personally I wouldn't consider using anything other than a resin/two pack coating with WRAS approval on a tank.

 

Tony - as you seem to have knowledge on the subject, and apologies if this is a stupid question, but would the inside of an untreated water tank have bioaccumulation potential? I suppose what I',m getting at is would a water tank coated with blacking create a better/worse environment for bacteria growth compared to an untreated tank.

 

Just for clarity it does refer to "drinking water tanks" on the tin.

[Chewbacka]

My understanding of Bioaccumulation is not that bacteria etc can grow on the surface. It is when small amounts of toxins - solvents etc - leech out of the substance and are then ingested by an animal/human. Many toxins are naturally disposed of by the body, but when the rate of getting rid of the toxin is lower than the rate of take-up, the toxin concentration starts to increase in the persons body. It accumulates. Eventually this gives a concentration in the person at a higher level than the source, to the point it may be harmful.

 

Added a couple of words above to make it read better and this - Just had a look on Wikipedia for those that prefer something better written than my rambling, which is also quite interesting and gives the example of the mad hatter.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bioaccumulation

 

I would guess that something in the Black Jack has been reclassified as either a bioaccumulator, or possibly or even 'know to be' harmful.

How much water and for how long would a person need to drink from a coated tank to have a significant risk would be an interesting question.

Edited August 10, 2016 by Chewbacka

[Neil2]

My understanding of Bioaccumulation is not that bacteria etc can grow on the surface. It is when small amounts of toxins - solvents etc - leech out of the substance and are then ingested by an animal/human. Many toxins are naturally disposed of by the body, but when the rate of getting rid of the toxin is lower than the rate of take-up, the toxin concentration starts to increase in the persons body. It accumulates. Eventually this gives a concentration in the person at a higher level than the source, to the point it may be harmful.

 

Added a couple of words above to make it read better and this - Just had a look on Wikipedia for those that prefer something better written than my rambling, which is also quite interesting and gives the example of the mad hatter.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bioaccumulation

 

I would guess that something in the Black Jack has been reclassified as either a bioaccumulator, or possibly or even 'know to be' harmful.

How much water and for how long would a person need to drink from a coated tank to have a significant risk would be an interesting question.

That was my understanding too.

 

I was deferring to someone who seemed to have professional knowledge on the subject.

 

It seems odd that since bitumen based coatings have been used in potable water tanks for ages, it's taken so long to figure out the stuff might be a health hazard.

[Sea Dog]

 

It seems odd that since bitumen based coatings have been used in potable water tanks for ages, it's taken so long to figure out the stuff might be a health hazard.

 

Does it? Lead? Asbestos? Cigarettes? The list of stuff in common usage which turned out to be a health hazard is actually quite a long one.

[Neil2]

Does it? Lead? Asbestos? Cigarettes? The list of stuff in common usage which turned out to be a health hazard is actually quite a long one.

 

Exactly. Bitumen has been around as long as, say, asbestos yet the hazards of using asbestos have been well known for some time.

 

I'm interested in what has suddenly alerted the producers of this stuff to the possible danger to health.

[Sea Dog]

Exactly. Bitumen has been around as long as, say, asbestos yet the hazards of using asbestos have been well known for some time.

 

I'm interested in what has suddenly alerted the producers of this stuff to the possible danger to health.

 

Dunno - new evidence, better testing techniques, higher standards? Asbestos was probably quicker to be identified as an issue (sadly not quick enough for many, and we've not seen the peak yet I fear) but lead wasn't. The Romans used lead in their water supplies and yet it wasn't until a few tens of years ago that the damage it does was realised and measures taken to avoid it. Crikey, they even added lead to petrol to spread it around even faster in the 20th century. Lead paint on kids' toys and babies' cots looks a bit silly now, but was thought fine for many, many years. The point is, even if Bitumen paint was believed safe for potable water applications and said so on the tin only 2 years ago, that doesn't mean it must be safe now.

[Chewbacka]

Dunno - new evidence, better testing techniques, higher standards? Asbestos was probably quicker to be identified as an issue (sadly not quick enough for many, and we've not seen the peak yet I fear) but lead wasn't. The Romans used lead in their water supplies and yet it wasn't until a few tens of years ago that the damage it does was realised and measures taken to avoid it. Crikey, they even added lead to petrol to spread it around even faster in the 20th century. Lead paint on kids' toys and babies' cots looks a bit silly now, but was thought fine for many, many years. The point is, even if Bitumen paint was believed safe for potable water applications and said so on the tin only 2 years ago, that doesn't mean it must be safe now.

I think we will see a number of substances falling into the possibly hazardous category over the next few years.

Where things kill lots quickly - eg Cyanide & arsenic - are identified very quickly, and have been controlled.

Where it's lots of people but takes 20 to 50 years - such as asbestos and smoking - it is harder to prove a link, so takes a long time, especially as no company wants to own up and pay compensation.

Then there is few people but quick and MMR vaccine was argued over for a number of years before deciding it is ok.

The most difficult are the low numbers which takes a long time to have an effect and these are starting to be found by predictive methods from testing. That is where a number of the new items are coming from.

Also the cost of smoking and asbestos has been huge and I suspect insurance companies will be the driver to removing those newly identified questionable products as the insurers do not want another high cost issue, and wish to use the defence that they took action as soon as they were aware that there may be a risk.

 

Added some missing words as editing before the first post had made it a bit rubbish

Edited August 10, 2016 by Chewbacka

[tonyt40]

Tony - as you seem to have knowledge on the subject, and apologies if this is a stupid question, but would the inside of an untreated water tank have bioaccumulation potential? I suppose what I',m getting at is would a water tank coated with blacking create a better/worse environment for bacteria growth compared to an untreated tank.

 

Just for clarity it does refer to "drinking water tanks" on the tin.

 

Waterborne bacteria feed on organic matter so silt, rust and general crud so having these in the tank are not good. This also includes natural products such as rubber, hemp, some jointing paste that can be introduced into the system and provide a food source for bacteria. The optimum Temps for for bacteria are between 20 and 45 degree c .

 

I would only use Wras approved materials.