Unexpectedly boat owners

[unexpectednewbee]

So as the title says my brother and I have unexpectedly become a boat owners as earlier this year my father died, as he was living on a narrow boat at the time of his death its part of his estate that we are having to deal with, aside from the internal fit out that needs compleating/redoing as it is only half done as well as being used as a workshop, we know that the bottom needs re-blacking and repaint of the whole boat, the tentative plan at the moment is for my brother and I to do as much of the work ourselves, with this in mind I have been looking into what we would need to do now and further do the line.

After having looked at the options and I believe getting it on too long term hardstanding would suit our needs best with regards to cost/timeline. so I'm looking for some recommendations for hard standing around Bradford on Avon or as near as possible as neither of us has a car.
Also before anything is decided about what we're going to do I'd like to get a surveyor out to go over the whole boat to find out if there are any problems and to also value the boat; as for if we decide to sell it as a project, so recommendations for local surveyors would be good thanks.

as this has turned into rather a rambling post let me bullet point the important questions

1. recommendations for hard standing in or as near to Bradford on Avon as possible? and local crane/transporters if needed ?
2. recommendations for surveyors in the Wiltshire area?
3. any other advice that might be needed?

 

thanks

hanna

 

[MtB]

Welcome to the forum!

 

My condolences on the passing of your dad.

 

One question screams at me you haven't mentioned. What do you plan to do with the boat? Keep it or sell it?

 

If the latter, then don't expend time money and effort on doing it up, you won't get your money back. Just sell it as it is.

 

If the former, then yes please confirm then people will type up loads of opinions and advice!

[Ace 01]

Hi

 

Sorry to hear about your sad circumstances, please accept our condolences.

 

An answer to part of your question is ABC boat hire at Hilperton Wharf have a crane for boat removal onto an artic at their site. They do not have any storage facilities however, though if you speak to them they may be aware of a local place with hard standing for storage and also a suitable local lorry company or crane hire company for off loading and transport.

 

Cheers

 

David

[unexpectednewbee]

hi mike,

that's the thing I don't know, I know my brother has said he doesn't want to live on it but he wants to 'finish' as terry would have wanted as he's feeling guilty how estranged they got over his last years especially when they had not long re-established contact.On the other hand, although I could really do with moving out of where I am at the moment if it works out financely but am not sure if I could go straight into cc'ing as it has been many years since I last lived on a boat as a teenager and I don't believe the boat we lived on ever moved and just from asking/looking around I know that finding a non-leisure mooring is hard what with not be able too far from Bradford on avon for work ect and the boat being 64'. there has also been the idae of keeping it for leisure use which is an good idea as I could get used to being on a boat again while waiting for a morring ect.

 

What i'd idealy like to do is have a survey done first to find out if there are any major problems and get a value for the boat as is;

 

1. so that if there is anything thats major we can look at how long its likely goin to take to do her up as my brother works full time so will esently only have weeknds and holidays. I'm expecting it to be quit a bit of work even if there aren't any major problems as half the inslation is missing,and there's rust on the inside, the roofs leaking ot a couple of the glass dome spots so the interia celing and insulation has to come out not to mention the missing kitchen and bathroom.

 

2.because at the moment we've no idea of how much to look for if we did go down the root of seeling it. although friends of terry's have said we'd probly only get between 6-10 thousand for it as is.

3. so that if there is a lot of work thats more than just cosmetic and not worth our time and money to do up, it might be easier to perswade my brother if we have it in black and white as they say.

 

The other reason i'm looking to get it on to hard standing sooner rather than later is Terry was rather naughty aparently with regards to adhearing to the cc rules and as he died sudenly we are unsure at this point if he managed to get his licence for this year before he died. Although we were certen we had found this years licence in his very limited paperwork. with haveingto get probate there's nothing crt can do at the moment but once it's sorted is another matter and i think i'd rather have it out of the water rather than paying for a licence we might not use in the end

Hi

Sorry to hear about your sad circumstances, please accept our condolences.

An answer to part of your question is ABC boat hire at Hilperton Wharf have a crane for boat removal onto an artic at their site. They do not have any storage facilities however, though if you speak to them they may be aware of a local place with hard standing for storage and also a suitable local lorry company or crane hire company for off loading and transport.

Cheers

David

thanks for the condolences, but we were many years estranged.

 

I will have to give them a call thanks

[Alan Taylor]

Kennet and Avon Boaters Facebook Group. There's people that know of farms where you can store a boat. It may be cheapest to buy an old flatbed and leave it on that. ( saves 2 cranes). Budget around £1500 to lift and move it, £150 a month for storage.

[bottle]

Having read your second post, I would say as per Mike in post#2.

 

Neither you or your brother are boaters, sorry if a bit harsh but you both have lives that are shore based.

 

As to spending lots of money (thousands) that will not be recoverable because of a guilt is definitely not the way to go.

 

Do not under estimate the cost (thousands) and the time (years) that it will take to sort the boat.

 

The only reason to keep the boat is if you or your brother are absolutely, positively sure you want to live on the canals.

 

If you decide to keep it, remember the ongoing costs, licence, insurance and mooring, probably over £3,000 per annum (total) and that is before you use it.

 

Then there are maintenance/repair costs.

 

That is £5,000 per annum in total.

[Trillian]

It is sad to lose someone you were once close to and were getting to know again, you have my sincere sympathies. It might be worth considering that you will be honoring your father by selling to someone who is very keen on boating, who can't afford a decent boat but will put the time and effort to make the boat beautiful again, as your father wished to do. Just a possible different view point for you.

[MtB]

Cor blimey unexpectednewbee. What a confusion of factors. As is often the way with boats, there is a shedload of emotions to take into account in addition to making simple logical decisions.

 

I need to go to work shortly so don;t have time to write a considered reply until probably very late tonight. In the meantime I bet you get a load of thoughtful comments from others on here...

[Bee]

If you yearned for a boat before he died then keep it, if the thought had never crossed your mind then sell it and spend the money on a boaty holiday. Boats can be expensive and terrible value for money unless you use them a lot or live on them. Us retired old gits can get a lot of use but if you work and only get a couple of weeks summer holiday they are really not worth the expense, just look at the boats that never move from marinas. Good luck whatever you do.

[magictime]

 

1. so that if there is anything thats major we can look at how long its likely goin to take to do her up as my brother works full time so will esently only have weeknds and holidays. I'm expecting it to be quit a bit of work even if there aren't any major problems as half the inslation is missing,and there's rust on the inside, the roofs leaking ot a couple of the glass dome spots so the interia celing and insulation has to come out not to mention the missing kitchen and bathroom.

 

That really, really doesn't sound like an 'evenings and weekends' job; it sounds like a boat requiring an investment of many hundreds of hours of skilled labour and many thousands of pounds on materials and equipment. I would urge you to cut your losses and sell it as a project asap. Getting it on to hard standing and getting a survey might still be a good idea, especially given what you say about the potential licence situation, but those costs should be the only ones you accept IMHO. Anything more spent storing and improving the boat is all too likely to cost you more than it adds to the boat's value.

 

If you like the idea of leisure boating, take the 6-10k from the sale of this boat and use it to buy yourself a nice GRP cruiser or maybe a little Springer narrowboat. Don't start shovelling money into this black hole in the expectation of having a nice 64' narrowboat to cruise around in any time soon!

[unexpectednewbee]

Having read your second post, I would say as per Mike in post#2.

 

Neither you or your brother are boaters, sorry if a bit harsh but you both have lives that are shore based.

 

As to spending lots of money (thousands) that will not be recoverable because of a guilt is definitely not the way to go.

 

Do not under estimate the cost (thousands) and the time (years) that it will take to sort the boat.

 

The only reason to keep the boat is if you or your brother are absolutely, positively sure you want to live on the canals.

 

If you decide to keep it, remember the ongoing costs, licence, insurance and mooring, probably over £3,000 per annum (total) and that is before you use it.

 

Then there are maintenance/repair costs.

 

That is £5,000 per annum in total.

I don't underestimate either the cost or the time that it's likely to take and have a much realistic veiw point than my brother who from what i gathered from our first convosation about fixing it up was it would only take him a couple of years of doing it on the weekends ( though i dont dout he would get board) presumably while also cc as he made no mention of geting it out of the water or into a marina!!

 

and as much as I could really do with moving from where I currently am living for my own wellbeing I know that realisticaly it's not something that is viable at this point in time no mater how much i might wish it. so i'd have no problem selling it now once i know what we could reasenabley get for her.

 

The problem is trying to pursade my brother that selling it is the best option but he's very hard headed and stubon and dosn't take being given advice well and it's doubly hard at the moment with him feling guilty about the whole thing to even get him to talk with me about everyday stuff let alone anything to do with the boat ect as he's, what's the saying 'put his head in the sand' and left me to deal with it all. some i'm trying to get all the right information about every option so it will hopefuly make the descusions we need to have easier.

[billS]

I would give Spencer and Victoria at the Boatyard in Hilperton a call.

 

They should be able to provide you with an estimate of current value, a cost estimate to complete the boat, and advice on local surveyors, craneage etc.

Edited August 9, 2016 by billS

[sueb]

I would give Spencer and Victoria at the Boatyard in Hilperton a call.

 

They should be able to provide you with an estimate of current value, a cost estimate to complete the boat, and advice on local surveyors, craneage etc.

Very good advice. One other point, how are you going to get all the stuff you need to finish this boat to the boat without a car?

[unexpectednewbee]

Very good advice. One other point, how are you going to get all the stuff you need to finish this boat to the boat without a car?

I know, I Know yet another thing that my brother hasn't thought through with wanting to fix it up i know that supposedly he is supposed to have a friend that will help with some of the work but i know that he's unreliable and has a patner and young baby/child and i don't even know if he has transport.

 

our sister has a car at the moment but we can't rely on that. it is funny thought to imagine oli on his motorbike trying to transport planks of wood etc

[Nightwatch]

it is funny thought to imagine oli on his motorbike trying to transport planks of wood etc

 

As long as Oli realises to have the wood longways and not across his back!!

[MtB]

As long as Oli realises to have the wood longways and not across his back!!

 

 

Vertical should be ok too, except for low bridges...

 

[magictime]

As people have been saying, you need to get some proper, reliable advice/estimates/valuations together in black and white and see if that's enough to change your brother's mind. If not, I guess it's then a question of whether he can buy out your share of the boat; or whether, in a worst case scenario, your best option in terms of cutting your losses is just to sign it over to him so that at least you're not liable for any expenses.

 

One other thing though: you mention another sibling - if she has an equal share too, is there a possibility of the two of you just outvoting him if it comes to it?

[unexpectednewbee]

As people have been saying, you need to get some proper, reliable advice/estimates/valuations together in black and white and see if that's enough to change your brother's mind. If not, I guess it's then a question of whether he can buy out your share of the boat; or whether, in a worst case scenario, your best option in terms of cutting your losses is just to sign it over to him so that at least you're not liable for any expenses.

 

One other thing though: you mention another sibling - if she has an equal share too, is there a possibility of the two of you just outvoting him if it comes to it?

that pretty much the way i was thinking thing might go once once advice/estimates/valuation were gotten.

the sister mentioned above is tecnally only a half sister through our mum so legally has no baring on the inheretance. but as i i found out a week before the funeral we aparently do have a half sister through Terry and then met her for the first time at the funeral, so there is someone else in play as they say, though she was estranged from him twice as long as i was and has been very verry hands off with everything. Mb feels that neither i nor our sister should inheret anything as we had had no contact in years but its a mute point as he died with out a will so its govened by intestate law, unless we dicide to give up our share. it's basically going to end up in some very hard conversations where it'll proberly be easier to get blood out of a stone than get a unanumus dicision made.

[Graham Davis]

Sorry to say it, but if it going to get that "difficult" you may need to get a solicitor involved!

[David Mack]

that pretty much the way i was thinking thing might go once once advice/estimates/valuation were gotten.

the sister mentioned above is tecnally only a half sister through our mum so legally has no baring on the inheretance. but as i i found out a week before the funeral we aparently do have a half sister through Terry and then met her for the first time at the funeral, so there is someone else in play as they say, though she was estranged from him twice as long as i was and has been very verry hands off with everything. Mb feels that neither i nor our sister should inheret anything as we had had no contact in years but its a mute point as he died with out a will so its govened by intestate law, unless we dicide to give up our share. it's basically going to end up in some very hard conversations where it'll proberly be easier to get blood out of a stone than get a unanumus dicision made.

 

Just what condition is the boat in? From the sound of things its very much a 'project boat', with little resale value, and you could be spending more money just to get it out of the water and surveyed. You might be better off just giving up your share of the boat.

[Laurie Booth]

Sorry to say it, but if it going to get that "difficult" you may need to get a solicitor involved!

It would be cheaper to give the boat to the solicitor.

[Catnip King]

I'd just sell as is in your situation and split the proceeds. If you decide to get into boating in the future then save the money from this towards it.

Edited August 13, 2016 by Catnip King

[MtB]

Well I apologise for not posting my detailed thoughts sooner as promised, but having read your subsequent posts I'm inclined to agree with other posters and suggest you walk away form this boat.

 

Reading between the lines it sounds as though doing it up (in memory of your father) to a reasonable standard is going to cost a king's ransom and your brother simply fails to grasp the sheer amount of work and money this is going to take.

 

May I suggest you look at long your father owned this boat and how much renovation work he did during his ownership? I suspect the amount of work done *might* turn out be trivial compared to what is needed and if this turns out to be right, then doing it up might not be so much a case of continuing the momentum of a project well under way, as starting and finishing the work your father intended to do one day when he eventually got around to it. Forgive me if I'm wrong about this.

 

Doing any work on a boat generally takes three times longer and costs three times as much as your maximum possible estimate, and as we have no idea how long this particular piece of string is I think you're better off out of it. It is very difficult to spend money on a boat and have the valuse rise by more than you spend (if rise at all!) so given I'm vaguely imagining your brother's next proposal will be he does all the manual work and you bankroll it, I think you're doubly best advised to just give him your interest in the boat and let him fund it, do the work and reap all the benefit as otherwise I suspect you'll end up pouring all your available cash into a black hole called this boat.

 

Your best move by far is to flog the boat as it stands, no survey, nothing to a dreamer like your brother. In fact why not just ask him to pay you an attractively small-sounding proportion of whatever he values it at now? That way you'll be up on the deal and have no further liability.

 

Just my thoughts...