Keen potential liveaboard's musings. And some of the less keen's wife's queries!

[NealSmith100]

Hi

 

I first suggested living on a narrowboat to my wife around 8 years ago. At the time we had never been on one (which obviously we would have, I’m not stupid!) but she nixed the idea at the time.

 

It’s now emerged again as a possibility again (started by her but I am sure she is regretting the comment now! J ). Although I am far keener still than Mrs Neal, she would be far more on board with camping and being in a tent than I ever would, so it’s not like she needs diamonds and pearls - don’t get me wrong!

 

We have been out on the canal now and it was every bit of awesome as I’d thought, if not better. I have never been so happy as when I was getting rained on and steering a lonely boat down a peaceful canal) and have more hire trips booked up because although I am keen, I am not stupid!

 

We have spent part of our holidays stopping at random marinas on the way, looking at boats for sale to get an idea of what ones other than hire boats are like (better!). We have spoken to some boaters while out and about although we only found 1 liveaboard so far so we’ve had interesting conversations but no actual great insights!

 

I have been researching and reading and wanted to check in with you good folks to see if I was missing something obvious (or even not obvious which is why I have missed it!). Or any advice for Mrs Neal?

 

Here is what where we are at:

 

We have jobs in Birmingham so would need a marina as we couldn’t cruise. Check – we’ve found a couple with residential moorings in areas we liked so that would work (and which would actually be a closer to work and cheaper to commute!).

 

In order for Mrs Neal to make the transition easier, I’d want to give her as much of current “home” as possible, like Sat TV, washing machines (make sure I am hooked up to the mains when they are used and we may need to fill up with water after!), so I can get these. (I know that marinas have laundrettes).

 

I am 43 and she is 36, no kids. I think we'd look for something 57 - 64 feet long to maximise room. Narrowbeam due to home location and the fact that we couldn’t get a widebeam out the marina! (and frankly, budget).

 

We like the idea of reverse layout, walkthrough bathroom with full size shower and space to put a second double up for the occasional staying guests, central heating but we also like the idea of having a fuel stove. Internet wouldn’t be a problem - we can just get a data only sim for that. I like the idea of a couple of solar panels to help generate our own electric but these can be added later.

 

Mrs Neal has asked me the following:

 

Q: Do canal boats get hot in the summer like a car if left unoccupied? She has a dog and is worried.

A: I think the answer to this is they can, but if you leave a couple of portholes open and shade an area off, put down plenty of water (just like we do now) this shouldn’t be a problem?

 

Q:Do they get mouldy in winter? She had a friend at her work who had a brother who lived aboard on an unknown narrowboat boat an unknown time ago and mould was apparently a problem.

A: My reading has shown lots of tips of getting rid of condensation and that a well insulated boat has less and so on which we can take care of but I have seen nothing about mould being a problem so I am guessing generally no? I’ve seen a few canal boats with wallpaper so it cant be that big a problem, either condensation or mould?

 

Mrs Neal has asked about depreciation. It’s difficult to answer I know but if we bought a fairly modern (say 5 years) boat for 65k with most mod cons then with our normal wear and tear, touch ups, redecorations etc but definitely lower than average cruising due to being in a Marina, as a % what kind of reduction could we expect to see when it came to resale, say 10 years later from our sale price. 25%? 50%? 75%?

 

Things I have wondered:

 

As we will be spending most of the time in a marina moored up with electric mains, if we run the mains nearly all the time, will that effect the life of the leisure batteries? I gather the mains just powers the devices, which is fine so if the batteries aren’t actually used all that does their capacity suffer as a result? I know there can be issues with over working them but not sure on inactivity.

 

Typing this, this just occurred to me: Do you need something fitted on the boat to hook up to marina mains? Or is that a fairly standard piece of kit that most boats come with?

 

I have seen all kind of sized water tanks - what would be an average size? Seems to me to be about 500 litres?

 

How much difference does a bow thruster actually make for steering?

 

Obviously, I can’t list everything I’ve looked at or thought of (partly because I am doing this at work and not work!) but are there any suggestions, advice or comments for me or Mrs Neal that has?

 

Any comments or help would be appreciated and looking forward to what hopefully will be great adventure!

[widebeamboy]

There are bound to be more experienced replies, however I moved aboard into a marina last October having not actually taken a boat out whatsoever for say the last 30 years when I did a school trip. We just jumped in the deep end with a long fat widebeam as that worked.

 

Q: Do canal boats get hot in the summer like a car if left unoccupied? She has a dog and is worried.

A: I think the answer to this is they can, but if you leave a couple of portholes open and shade an area off, put down plenty of water (just like we do now) this shouldn’t be a problem? Yes, ours gets hot however I can monitor it remotely and call neighbours to open doors for a few hours. I also have a normal fan on a remote socket plus I bought a TransCool box which whilst it works is not perfect and cannot be controlled remotely (or at least not found a way yet)

 

Q:Do they get mouldy in winter? She had a friend at her work who had a brother who lived aboard on an unknown narrowboat boat an unknown time ago and mould was apparently a problem.

A: My reading has shown lots of tips of getting rid of condensation and that a well insulated boat has less and so on which we can take care of but I have seen nothing about mould being a problem so I am guessing generally no? I’ve seen a few canal boats with wallpaper so it cant be that big a problem, either condensation or mould? Mine hasn't, I havent noticed any issues in the wardrobes etc.

 

Mrs Neal has asked about depreciation. It’s difficult to answer I know but if we bought a fairly modern (say 5 years) boat for 65k with most mod cons then with our normal wear and tear, touch ups, redecorations etc but definitely lower than average cruising due to being in a Marina, as a % what kind of reduction could we expect to see when it came to resale, say 10 years later from our sale price. 25%? 50%? 75%? No idea to be honest.

 

Things I have wondered:

 

As we will be spending most of the time in a marina moored up with electric mains, if we run the mains nearly all the time, will that effect the life of the leisure batteries? I gather the mains just powers the devices, which is fine so if the batteries aren’t actually used all that does their capacity suffer as a result? I know there can be issues with over working them but not sure on inactivity. Mine is connected to the shoreline and now that I understand how the invertor works it is on teh right setting where it charges the batteries when required.

 

Typing this, this just occurred to me: Do you need something fitted on the boat to hook up to marina mains? Or is that a fairly standard piece of kit that most boats come with? I beleive they are common, you might not have a long enough lead or your marina supply may be the bigger 32a socket and not 16a however they are both easily overcome.

 

I have seen all kind of sized water tanks - what would be an average size? Seems to me to be about 500 litres? Ours is 450l which when you are in a marina presumably with a nearby standpipe is plenty enough even in the cold.

 

How much difference does a bow thruster actually make for steering? No idea. Mine is 70x12 and it handles just fine. I am sure a bow thruster would make it much easier however I havent noticed the need and managed to turn it around in one go on the Olympic cruise when other shorter boats appeared to struggle to make the 180 degree turn.

[dmr]

64 foot is plain daft, either 57 so you can go everywhere, or 70 and have lots of space (ok maybe 69 so the locks are not too tight).

 

Any decent live aboard boat should have a washing machine, launderettes are sordid boring places and an endangered species.

 

Boats can get very hot in summer and no place to leave a dog alone until you have worked out how to reliably keep them cool. An open port-hole is not enough.

 

Mould should not be an issue as long as you manage heating and ventilation correctly. A bit of condensation is hard to avoid. Wipe port holes each morning in winter.

 

House appreciate, boats depreciate. You don't buy a boat as an investment.

 

Batteries last much much longer on a hook up as long as you don't accidentally over charge them.

 

Mains hookup is standard on almost all boats.

 

Big water tanks are good for cruising, less important in a marina, 500l should be the minimum.

 

Much much better to learn how to drive the boat rather than having a bow thruster. The extra water capacity is much more useful. Many boaters with bow thrusters never learn to handle their boat well and are in right trouble when the bow thruster breaks (but maybe different if you are old and single handed).

 

...............Dave

[Athy]

 

 

 

In order for Mrs Neal to make the transition easier, I’d want to give her as much of current “home” as possible, like Sat TV.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Welcome!

 

Are you sure that she'd be happy with television just one day per week?

 

Now back to the sensible replies.

Edited August 5, 2016 by Athy

[Bobbin]

Answring Mrs Neals question.......YES boats can get very hot in summer and I don't think just leaving a porthole open will be enough. Leaving a dog or any animal for a long time in a hot boat could prove fatal. I have every window, door and hatch open. then I cover my dog with a wet towel and give her a hotwater bottle filled with cold water.Then it's up to her if she wants to lie on it or not. I never leave her alone when it's hot.

[Tam & Di]

Welcome!

 

Are you sure that she'd be happy with television just one day per week?

 

Now back to the sensible replies.

 

I'm not sure that Sat TV means she just wants it for Saturdays - I think she means she wants to be able to sit down comfortably to watch rather than having to stand up.

 

Tam

[Dave Payne]

Do it, do it, do it!

 

I was the same as you just over 18 months ago, purchased a boat without even stepping foot on one, hired for a couple of days before the sale went through and loved it, got my boat and moved on board last September, although the wife didnt follow, which was not a bad thing!

 

I started off in a marina over the winter and whilst it was great having hook up, i hated the feeling of being boxed in next to others, sleeping four feet away from someone else and hearing them snore, so i headed out the marina in April and sso far am loving living on the bank, ask me again though in January!

 

i think you can CC on the BCN easy enough, plenty of miles and always near a bus/train stop to get to work, or move your car around with you which i do and its not that hard...

[NealSmith100]

64 foot is plain daft, either 57 so you can go everywhere, or 70 and have lots of space (ok maybe 69 so the locks are not too tight).

 

Any decent live aboard boat should have a washing machine, launderettes are sordid boring places and an endangered species.

 

Boats can get very hot in summer and no place to leave a dog alone until you have worked out how to reliably keep them cool. An open port-hole is not enough.

 

>>>OK - thanks. Obviously we would not want to endanger the dog!

 

Mould should not be an issue as long as you manage heating and ventilation correctly. A bit of condensation is hard to avoid. Wipe port holes each morning in winter.

 

House appreciate, boats depreciate. You don't buy a boat as an investment.

 

>> We know that, but wondered what the rate would be .She asked so I said I would try to get a guidleline for her.

 

Batteries last much much longer on a hook up as long as you don't accidentally over charge them.

 

Mains hookup is standard on almost all boats.

 

Big water tanks are good for cruising, less important in a marina, 500l should be the minimum.

 

Much much better to learn how to drive the boat rather than having a bow thruster. The extra water capacity is much more useful. Many boaters with bow thrusters never learn to handle their boat well and are in right trouble when the bow thruster breaks (but maybe different if you are old and single handed).

 

>>> Didn't realise it took away water space which is why I am here! Thanks

 

...............Dave

Answring Mrs Neals question.......YES boats can get very hot in summer and I don't think just leaving a porthole open will be enough. Leaving a dog or any animal for a long time in a hot boat could prove fatal. I have every window, door and hatch open. then I cover my dog with a wet towel and give her a hotwater bottle filled with cold water.Then it's up to her if she wants to lie on it or not. I never leave her alone when it's hot.

 

Thanks Bobbin. I did see a post somewhere about shade and water but clearly that isn't enough.

There are bound to be more experienced replies, however I moved aboard into a marina last October having not actually taken a boat out whatsoever for say the last 30 years when I did a school trip. We just jumped in the deep end with a long fat widebeam as that worked.

 

Q: Do canal boats get hot in the summer like a car if left unoccupied? She has a dog and is worried.

A: I think the answer to this is they can, but if you leave a couple of portholes open and shade an area off, put down plenty of water (just like we do now) this shouldn’t be a problem? Yes, ours gets hot however I can monitor it remotely and call neighbours to open doors for a few hours. I also have a normal fan on a remote socket plus I bought a TransCool box which whilst it works is not perfect and cannot be controlled remotely (or at least not found a way yet)

 

Q:Do they get mouldy in winter? She had a friend at her work who had a brother who lived aboard on an unknown narrowboat boat an unknown time ago and mould was apparently a problem.

A: My reading has shown lots of tips of getting rid of condensation and that a well insulated boat has less and so on which we can take care of but I have seen nothing about mould being a problem so I am guessing generally no? I’ve seen a few canal boats with wallpaper so it cant be that big a problem, either condensation or mould? Mine hasn't, I havent noticed any issues in the wardrobes etc.

 

Mrs Neal has asked about depreciation. It’s difficult to answer I know but if we bought a fairly modern (say 5 years) boat for 65k with most mod cons then with our normal wear and tear, touch ups, redecorations etc but definitely lower than average cruising due to being in a Marina, as a % what kind of reduction could we expect to see when it came to resale, say 10 years later from our sale price. 25%? 50%? 75%? No idea to be honest.

 

Things I have wondered:

 

As we will be spending most of the time in a marina moored up with electric mains, if we run the mains nearly all the time, will that effect the life of the leisure batteries? I gather the mains just powers the devices, which is fine so if the batteries aren’t actually used all that does their capacity suffer as a result? I know there can be issues with over working them but not sure on inactivity. Mine is connected to the shoreline and now that I understand how the invertor works it is on teh right setting where it charges the batteries when required.

 

Typing this, this just occurred to me: Do you need something fitted on the boat to hook up to marina mains? Or is that a fairly standard piece of kit that most boats come with? I beleive they are common, you might not have a long enough lead or your marina supply may be the bigger 32a socket and not 16a however they are both easily overcome.

 

I have seen all kind of sized water tanks - what would be an average size? Seems to me to be about 500 litres? Ours is 450l which when you are in a marina presumably with a nearby standpipe is plenty enough even in the cold.

 

How much difference does a bow thruster actually make for steering? No idea. Mine is 70x12 and it handles just fine. I am sure a bow thruster would make it much easier however I havent noticed the need and managed to turn it around in one go on the Olympic cruise when other shorter boats appeared to struggle to make the 180 degree turn.

Thanks for this

[angeldust]

Our neighbours have bought air conditioners to keep their dogs cool while they are at work.

[widebeamboy]

no worries, we have two greyhounds onboard and as you may or may not know they dont do anything other than sleep ALL day when noone is home (I check in on them on the camera I have installed just in case). The best they do is swap sofas! I have been very concerned this year when we had a quick hot spell in London and although it was hot inside it wasnt unbearable and they were fine. I started to put the fan on in the morning before the boat had warmed up as easier to do this than try and cool warm air.

 

I havent done it however saw elsewhere about putting tinfoil bubble wrap stuff like you put behind rads against the sun facing windows.

[Robbo]

Does a boat get hot in summer?

 

Depends, a boat with decent insulation and double glazing can be a lot cooler inside than outside (mine is). Colour is also importanrt here as light colour boats will be cooler than dark colour boats in the direct sun.

 

 

Does it get moody in winter?

 

Again, a decent boat should not. Ventilation is the key here for getting rid of damp air, and as a boat has many sources of water in a inclosed small space it is more of a issue on boats.

[cuthound]

This ^^^^.

 

If the boat has decent insulation (sprayfoam, Thinsulate etc, not polystyrene - and most boats built since the early 90's will have), and a light coloured roof, then they do not get uncomfortably hot in summer.

 

We had share boats from 1992-2013 with sprayfoam insulation and now have our own boat with Thinsulate insulation.

 

In the sharing days we always holidayed in August with dogs, and never had an issue.

 

If you look at boats for sale during hot weather, and ask about the insulation type you will soon see what works. Portholes also keep the heat out (and in during winter) better than big windows, but obviously don't open as far.

 

Edited for a wrong worm.

Edited August 5, 2016 by cuthound

[widebeamboy]

good point about the colour and window styles. We are burgundy and it gets exceptionally hot on the roof and the living area/galley has big windows so this part of boat is always warmest

[NealSmith100]

Addendum:

 

The reason I asked about depreciation is that having looked at finance options, it seems to me we would need use up most of the equity in our house in order to get a decent boat.

 

If we then decided to move back to land for any reason after, say, 5 years or 10 years then I wanted to be able to give her a idea of how much the boat would be worth and we could get back by selling against what we would save by living on it for that period, If we lived aboard to the point where the boat was effectively worthless, then we would have made sufficient savings to make a deposit back on land.

 

We know boats depreciate. I'd move not because i want to save money but because I think it would be romantic and cool and fun to live aboard, although having looked at running costs and everything else, it would save money in the long term.

 

Thanks to everyone for your answers, they were either very useful or in the case of standing to watch TV on a weekday, made me smile

Edited August 5, 2016 by NealSmith100

[widebeamboy]

Addendum:

 

The reason I asked about depreciation is that having looked at options, it seems to me we would need to sell and use all the equity in our house in order to get a decent boat.

 

If we then decided to move back to land for any reason after, say, 5 years or 10 years then I wanted to be able to give her a idea of how much the boat would be worth and we could get back by selling against what we would save by living on it for that period, If we lived aboard to the point where the boat was effectively worthless, then we would have made sufficient savings to make a deposit back on land.

 

I know boats depreciate so that's fine for me and I'd move because i want to not to save money, although having looked at running costs and everything else, it would save money in the long term.

 

Thanks to everyone for your answers, they were either very useful or in the case of standing to watch TV on a weekday, made me smile

 

I looked at it was something like this.

 

Viewed a 3 year old boat, fully fitted professionally by boat company and coincidentally completely to our style. It was just over £100k and was already in London and CC'ing on the Lea.

I then looked at a 10 year old boat, fully fitted by owner so whilst nicely done, not to my standards and it wasnt completely our style. It was slightly smaller and was down in Reading. It was £85k.

 

My logic (doesnt always work I know) was that in 7 years when my boat was 10 years old it would easily be worth the value of the 10 year old boat I had viewed (not factoring in inflation etc etc).

 

I then put it on a residential mooring in London and was suprised to find out it had effectively gone up in value as they attract a premium. Wasnt on my agenda or thinking at all and assume London is an exception to the norm, I just wanted somewhere to be based for a variety of reasons as CCing wasnt an option for me.

[dmr]

For myself, and Gillie, the great pleasure of living on a boat is....living on a Boat, the boatiness of all and the fact that its not a house. Adjusting our routines to fit in with boat life and not having all the attributes of a house. Not having a TV at all, just download any stuff that we really want to watch. Can you not enthuse your wife with the pleasures of boating???? A good proper boaty boat is more fun that a boat trying to be a substitute house.

 

.............Dave

[Señor Chris]

Q:Do they get mouldy in winter?

 

No, but the occupants do.

[Phil Ambrose]

But Dave, living on a boat doesn't mean camping, as the OP said they will be marina based so there is nowt that they will have to go without. We have a full size fridge and a freezer, tumble dryer etc etc. We have lived aboard for 15 years and being long retired we cruise as often or not as we choose, when away solar powers a lot of our stuff, we first had 500w of solar about 12 years ago. We tend to hole up in the marina in winter.

I'm sure the OP will be able to sort out living on a boat so that it suits his lifestyle if they are sensible, there are even liveaboards who have dishwashers.

Phil

[adam1uk]

Addendum:

 

The reason I asked about depreciation is that having looked at options, it seems to me we would need to sell and use all the equity in our house in order to get a decent boat.

 

If we then decided to move back to land for any reason after, say, 5 years or 10 years then I wanted to be able to give her a idea of how much the boat would be worth and we could get back by selling against what we would save by living on it for that period, If we lived aboard to the point where the boat was effectively worthless, then we would have made sufficient savings to make a deposit back on land.

 

I know boats depreciate so that's fine for me and I'd move because i want to not to save money, although having looked at running costs and everything else, it would save money in the long term.

 

Thanks to everyone for your answers, they were either very useful or in the case of standing to watch TV on a weekday, made me smile

 

I was once told that the cash value of boats stays roughly the same throughout their entire lives -- and while that may not be completely true, in many cases it's not far off. You'll find lots of people who sell their boat for more or less what they paid for it several (even many) years previously. Of course, that means the boat has in fact depreciated quite significantly, because everything else will have gone up in price in the mean time. So you're unlikely to lose much in cash terms, but a boat certainly isn't a money-making investment like property probably would be.

[Lady Muck]

 

Q: Do canal boats get hot in the summer like a car if left unoccupied? She has a dog and is worried.

A: I think the answer to this is they can, but if you leave a couple of portholes open and shade an area off, put down plenty of water (just like we do now) this shouldn’t be a problem?

 

 

They can, but you can do things such as paint the roof white, paint the boat in a light colour and we use silver reflective foil in our windows. We've also noted that solar panels will keep your roof cooler because of the air space underneath.

 

 

Q:Do they get mouldy in winter? She had a friend at her work who had a brother who lived aboard on an unknown narrowboat boat an unknown time ago and mould was apparently a problem.

A: My reading has shown lots of tips of getting rid of condensation and that a well insulated boat has less and so on which we can take care of but I have seen nothing about mould being a problem so I am guessing generally no? I’ve seen a few canal boats with wallpaper so it cant be that big a problem, either condensation or mould?

Mould grows a lot easier on a boat, there's no doubt about it. You have to manage it if you're not to get mould. Get a dehumidifier if you are on mains, we've a Meaco DD8L, they are great for boats. You will still have to take precautions such as opening windows when cooking and using pan lids, being mindful that anything down low at the back of cupboards where there is limited air circulation can get mouldy or damp. I use vacuum pack bags for out of season clothes and footwear. Get a squeegee for your shower and try and squeegee as much moisture as you can out of the way after a shower, use an extractor fan.

 

As we will be spending most of the time in a marina moored up with electric mains, if we run the mains nearly all the time, will that effect the life of the leisure batteries? I gather the mains just powers the devices, which is fine so if the batteries aren’t actually used all that does their capacity suffer as a result? I know there can be issues with over working them but not sure on inactivity.

get a multi stage battery charger to condition your batteries when you are on the shoreline. Our last set lasted 8 years. We cruise a bit, we have solar panels, but we only ever buy cheap bog standard leisures, we just dont discharge them below about 70%

Edited August 5, 2016 by Lady Muck

[NealSmith100]

 

No, but the occupants do.

 

 

But Dave, living on a boat doesn't mean camping, as the OP said they will be marina based so there is nowt that they will have to go without. We have a full size fridge and a freezer, tumble dryer etc etc. We have lived aboard for 15 years and being long retired we cruise as often or not as we choose, when away solar powers a lot of our stuff, we first had 500w of solar about 12 years ago. We tend to hole up in the marina in winter.

I'm sure the OP will be able to sort out living on a boat so that it suits his lifestyle if they are sensible, there are even liveaboards who have dishwashers.

Phil

 

 

I think DMR Dave is closer to my personal mindset but Phil is right - for me to bring Mrs Neal along to where I am eventually, or as far down that road as she wants to go, I want her to be comfortable and happy as well.

 

or I end up like Dave Payne Dave who appears to have left his wife lying round somewhere at some stage!

[Bobbin]

I note what has been said about fans and air conditioning and it may well be OK for some breeds of dog. But a dog with a heavy coat or a muscular breed like my Staffy would still find it too hot. Finally the marina where my boat is moored often gets power cuts . and remember dogs don't sweat so they can't cool off like us humans.

[Paul C]

Leaving a dog on a boat in a marina during the day is asking for trouble. Even if you sorted out some kind of air conditioning or ventilation to ensure it didn't overheat, then you have no way of making sure it doesn't bark/howl etc. Let me guess......you know what your dog is like when left alone???? Hmmmmm. It would be very unfair to other moorers at the marina, many of whom value their peace and quiet and don't necessarily share your love of dogs. And you'll be the newbie (with the noisy dog).

[Sea Dog]

I note what has been said about fans and air conditioning and it may well be OK for some breeds of dog. But a dog with a heavy coat or a muscular breed like my Staffy would still find it too hot. Finally the marina where my boat is moored often gets power cuts . and remember dogs don't sweat so they can't cool off like us humans.

Well, that's all pretty true (although what's going on with the power cuts? That's surely not normal!) but the dog will be laid on the floor, which is under the water line, and heat rises, so it's automatically the coolest place on the boat. We've hunkered down on a couple of very unusual summer days and our lab (on the floor) seemed less bothered than us! So, imho, leaving the dog on a well insulated and ventilated boat for a short period is not the same as leaving it in the back of a car. Nevertheless, leaving a dog alone anywhere all day is a pretty sub-optimal plan, whatever the season, and a boat is not without its 'ventilation versus security' issues. So, to agree with Bobbin, you're gonna need a dog plan.

[Pykebird]

As Saud before it really depends on how well insulated your boat is. My guys had thick coats and even with unlimited access to the garden, it always cooler in the boat! A ceramic floor in the bathroom as well as tiles helps.