BW to Auction Moorings

[nine9feet]

Just read this elsewhere from a member of IWA council. Sorry it's so long and I hope the author won't mind me posting it here!

 

"At the recent Boating Issues meeting, BW indicated they planned to Market Test moorings by auction.

BW subsequently invited IWA, AWCC, RBOA, DBA and NABO to a follow up meeting to discuss more detail of BW's plans to auction moorings via the internet.

DBA and NABO declined to attend the follow up meeting as a protest against the imposition of a scheme with which they did not agree.

Following the strong representations made by IWA and AWCC representatives at the Boating Issues meeting, BW confirmed today that they now intended to 'market test' using a postal system of 'sealed bids', although there will be the facility to view papers and to submit an 'secure' electronic bid should people so wish. .

It was agreed that all Bids will be opened in a central place on a set date and time, and that the highest bidder will be deemed successful, subject to satisfactory credit clearances.

Full notes of the detail of today's meeting will be circulated shortly, but below is a brief summary of the process discussed.

Clear contract terms will be published in a 'marketing pack' which will provide the appropriate address labels and bid forms. Printed copies of the Pack will be made available on Registration following from an invitation advert in the boating press, through Clubs and Associations and via notices at Waterways Offices. All persons currently on 'moorings waiting lists' will automatically be invited to apply for a Registration Pack. [Mooring waiting lists will then be 'frozen' during the trial] Initial registration will be for the trial period of one year.] Others will also be eligible to apply for a pack as they so wish.] A small charge will be made for the Registration Pack to cover printing, packing and postage.

Vacancy statements will be mailed out to all who have registered to take part in the trial.The only moorings omitted from the trial will be those which are short term, i.e. where the mooring site is likely to be closed.

Thereafter, once the 'Offerings' are known, it is up to the individual whether they bid or not. Registration will assure all invitations to bid for individual 'offerings' will be provided for the year. [People can stipulate their chosen area for 'offerings'.]

Mooring contracts will be offered for a period of 3 years, and the deal fixed at the bid price. All such mooring contracts will be renewable by the original purchaser at the end of the three year term, provided the holder has paid regularly and met the contract terms. All moorings will be to a person and will not be transferable between persons. [This means that the person can change boats on the mooring, but the contract is personal to them and them alone, and they cannot 'sell' it or otherwise dispose of it.] The price for the renewal of the mooring, after the end of the first three years, will be based on the prevailing price at that time of similar local moorings. All moorings offered under the scheme will be detailed on Offer Sheets and the local facilities available will be fully detailed in the specification circulated when offers are sought.

It is anticipated that the national trial will start in the Autumn and run

for initially one year, but the first six months operation will be subject to a detailed review. BW will reserve the right to continue with the scheme after that time or, subject to reasonable notice, revert back to the old 'waiting lists' regime."

 

Do BW have a legal right to auction moorings?

[Bones]

oh dear.. auctioning moorings really is bad news.

[StoneHenge]

That's a nasty way to make more money knowing those with a lot of money will be more than happy to out bid those of us who earn a lower wage and could not fight a bidding war.

 

I hope it gets stubbed out as quickly as it starts.

[elessina]

I agree, I do not like the idea of auctioning off moorings, but........

 

My understanding is, currently some BW rented moorings are in effect 'sold' , sometime for quite a considerable price, because they are exchanged when their 'owner' sells their boat. Eg a £30k boat is sold for £55k, with mooring.

 

This seems wrong, and I can (sort of!) understand why, under severe financial pressure, BW are looking at ways of eliminating this, and taking some of the premium themselves. After all, BW clearly need to raise their overall income, to support a fully maintained and expanding waterway (which we all want) without excessive increases in licence fees (which we all want to avoid).

 

There must be a better solution..... any ideas?

 

Ian

[Duchess Omnium]

This is already happening. I am on a waiting list for a permanent mooring and got a letter from BW this week to say that there were two moorings available in my area and they were going to sealed bids. I was invited to express interest. Having done that, in another couple of weeks they will send me the reserve price and they will then accept best and final offers.

 

In year two and three I can renew the mooring at the bid price plus an inflation index. After that they will review...

 

I feel very uncertain about this process, but I shall make a bid. I have a boat and really, really would like to have a legal, secure, long term mooring... I shall have to bid more than the price I know the next boat is paying -- that's the nature of auctions. But, how much more to bid? It doesn't feel very comfortable to be in this position.

[NB Alnwick]

Sealed bids are quite unfair - but the system has been used by other nationalised industries.

It would be fairer if they put them up for public auction or on eBay.

[Breals]

Really terrible....

[AJLintern]

So what system of sealed bid auction will they use? If you win, do you end up paying the amount you've submitted, or do you pay the second highest bid plus an increment (similar to Ebay) ? The latter system seems more fair - no one wants to end up paying over the odds for anything!

Edited May 4, 2007 by AJLintern

[gaggle]

I agree, I do not like the idea of auctioning off moorings, but........

 

My understanding is, currently some BW rented moorings are in effect 'sold' , sometime for quite a considerable price, because they are exchanged when their 'owner' sells their boat. Eg a £30k boat is sold for £55k, with mooring.

 

 

Ian

 

i thought that mooring could not be sold along with the boat , one boat locally it seems was sold but kept in the same name in order to keep the mooring.

the new owner pays the licence insurance ect to the previous owner who pays the bills and two fingers tome and others on the waiting lists.

 

as for sealed bids and auctions all boaters should refuse to take part in them , it would take full solidarity amongst boaters and sadly i dont think that will happen.

[GRPCruiserman]

This is disgusting, just another way that BW are driving the boater on a lower income off the canals.

 

Glad I sold my boat.

 

My sympathy for bridge hoppers is starting to grow. Perhaps we should atrt a campaign against this, if it is pointed out to BW that the bridge hopping brigade will DEFINATELY grow, then perhaps they will think again.

 

Unless you earn £10000000000000 a year, BW just don't want you near their canals these days. More shiney narrow boats, less diversity of craft.

 

Awful.

[fender]

Auctioning? The rich wil get the moorings. Time to start a class war

[GRPCruiserman]

Aye, it'll be the shineyer your narrow boat, the higher priority you have at locks next, with a special 'red' licence for thos ewho can pay double who are then allowed to do 8 mph, regardless of fishermen, moored boats, etc, unless they are passing another 'red' licence holder. They will also have ultimate right of way.

 

The only way to qualify for a red licence is that your boat MUST have cost over £50000, you must pay double the normal licence fee, and the reflective index of your paint must be higher tthan 80%. Oh, and you must have offered a four figure 'bribe' (sorry sealed bid) for your mooring.

 

I will NEVER use the canals again if this carries on, it's getting ridiculous, BW have REALLY lost the plot this time. I'll stick to the sea, it's free!!

[fender]

Aye, it'll be the shineyer your narrow boat, the higher priority you have at locks next, with a special 'red' licence for thos ewho can pay double who are then allowed to do 8 mph, regardless of fishermen, moored boats, etc, unless they are passing another 'red' licence holder. They will also have ultimate right of way.

 

The only way to qualify for a red licence is that your boat MUST have cost over £50000, you must pay double the normal licence fee, and the reflective index of your paint must be higher tthan 80%. Oh, and you must have offered a four figure 'bribe' (sorry sealed bid) for your mooring.

 

I will NEVER use the canals again if this carries on, it's getting ridiculous, BW have REALLY lost the plot this time. I'll stick to the sea, it's free!!

 

hear hear!

 

Its like property - the poorest get shoved out of the equation.

[blackrose]

This is disgusting, just another way that BW are driving the boater on a lower income off the canals.

 

Glad I sold my boat.

 

My sympathy for bridge hoppers is starting to grow. Perhaps we should atrt a campaign against this, if it is pointed out to BW that the bridge hopping brigade will DEFINATELY grow, then perhaps they will think again.

 

Unless you earn £10000000000000 a year, BW just don't want you near their canals these days. More shiney narrow boats, less diversity of craft.

 

Awful.

 

I agree, I know BW have been more interested in making money from land & property than taking care of waterways & boats for a number of years, but it's disgraceful if they are just allowed to cash in in this way. I thought BW was supposed to be an arm of the govt & civil authorities - this is the free market gone mad!

 

So what happens to all those people who've been on waiting lists for years? Their prospective moorings get auctioned off to the higest bidder? Can it really be legal? This has to be challenged.

[Big John]

...BW have been more interested in making money from land & property than taking care of waterways & boats for a number of years

So what happens to all those people who've been on waiting lists for years? Their prospective moorings get auctioned off to the higest bidder? Can it really be legal? This has to be challenged.

Is there anyone here from IWA, AWCC, RBOA who was at the meeting with BW? If so, what points did you challenge BW on, and what was their response? Is BW really listening to us? Or just listening and doing what they think is best for BW? What about what is good long-term for the canals? Would it really be a good thing to have only rich boaters using the canals at their convenience with no interest in doing their part to maintain the waterways? BW - remember this important word: VOLUNTEERS, and this one: ENTHUSIAST.

 

Lots of people have said, This has to be challenged. But so far no one seems to have come up with a viable challenge. Would it be worth someone affected going to the Waterways Ombudsman, and if so, on what basis?

 

What hope does a canal-enthusiast pensioner have? If they have to rebid every 3 years and they can't continuous cruise, but want to use the canals to cruise from their base regularly, they may be forced off the cut onto .....? (can't bring myself to say it).

[JohnO]

I would have thought this thread would have received more interest than it has so far

why are the regular posters not adding their thoughts on the subject?

So if EVERYONE was united on this and placed bids ranging from £00.1 to £1.00 what would happen then?

Then again if you have more money than sense, your money might keep my license fees down or is that just wishful thinking!

Can someone pay me loads of dosh to come up with stupid ideas

[Lesd]

I thought this was some kind of April fool when i first read this, I agree its a bloody disgrace. My initial reaction is that Id rather bridge hop than enter this crazy process (and that dispite being on the list actively looking for a mooring for two years).

Im very interested in hearing ideas of how we can collectively fight this particular BW money making scheme.

Rgds

les

[Richard Fairhurst]

Is there anyone here from IWA, AWCC, RBOA who was at the meeting with BW?

Unfortunately the press is forbidden from attending these meetings. Given that this is where proposals like this are advanced, you may draw your own conclusions as to why.

[fender]

I thought this was some kind of April fool when i first read this, I agree its a bloody disgrace. My initial reaction is that Id rather bridge hop than enter this crazy process (and that dispite being on the list actively looking for a mooring for two years).

Im very interested in hearing ideas of how we can collectively fight this particular BW money making scheme.

Rgds

les

 

This needs to be fought strongly - there are lots of areas where BW sticks two fingers up at its customers and this is just another one. More and more people will bridge hop etc. And then there will be aggro when BW tries to move people on and everyone WILL fight BW - there have already been rumblings and it wont stop here, many poorer boaters will have had enough and take action. CANT BW ever see that it is actually causing things to work in the opposite way to what they want?

[Keeping Up]

I don't know if this link to Yahoo Canals-List Group will work for everyone (please someone say if it doesn't) but it's worth reading.

[JohnO]

I don't know if this link to Yahoo Canals-List Group will work for everyone (please someone say if it doesn't) but it's worth reading.

 

You need a yahoo email address and then sign up to the group

worth it Eugene works on a Sunday!

[Rick-n-Jo]

If this goes ahead (I can't believe it's even legal) and we are forced off the waterways, which we would be, we've invested everything we have in a future on the canals, but we're on a carefully worked out budget for ***** sake, then you can be sure that I for one won't sit back and see the waterways become a rich man's playground. I'll take a leaf out of that Rochdale farmer's book and CLOSE THE CANALS.

 

Seriously, you know it can be done. Only takes a little knowledge of how canals work.

 

BW need to be made very aware that they face mass protest, civil disobedience and proper blockades, not just the token two hours of the SOW campaign, but long term bloody minded chain yourself to the lock gates "we shall not be moved" blockades.

 

License and mooring payment boycott.

Remove all ID from your boat to make it an administrative nightmare for them to follow up.

 

We have to make sure they know that it'll cost them MONEY! Apparently that's the only language they understand now.

 

I'm so angry about this that I can hardly type....

[Lesd]

I don't know if this link to Yahoo Canals-List Group will work for everyone (please someone say if it doesn't) but it's worth reading.

 

 

You need a user name and password AlAn so I for one cant read it, can someone cut and paste it over please ?

[Rick-n-Jo]

You need a user name and password AlAn so I for one cant read it, can someone cut and paste it over please ?

 

 

Here you go...

 

Dear all

 

Further details will be forthcoming very shortly on this TRIAL. My

exphasis so that we don't all imagine this is confirmed for ever and

a day.

 

This is what I can tell you right now (it's Sunday, I'm not at work,

and don't have every detail to hand). I want to tell you this much

so that there can be a debate on the facts and not on what may have

been suggested previously and elsewhere. And on this latter point, I

think it is clear evidence that BW is already listening before this

TRIAL gets underway, since the first thing you should know is that

there will NOT BE an AUCTION process at the outset of the TRIAL.

That is after the views of those groups who have contributed to the

discussions so far were taken on board.

 

Tenders will be invited for a three year mooring contract. The

successful applicant will then pay that price for a three year period.

There will be two ways of entering the tender process - via the web

and by post.

The two tender processes will run simulataneously.

The TRIAL will run for the allocation of 600 berths, which roughly

equates to a period of one year.

The TRIAL will be reviewed after six months.

If the TRIAL continues for the remaining six months a formal public

consultation will commence (12 week written period) around month

seven or eight of the TRIAL.

 

As I mentioned above, I can't add anything else at the moment, but I

do welcome the debate based on what's actually going to happen during

the TRIAL.

 

Eugene

[blackrose]

So if EVERYONE was united on this and placed bids ranging from £00.1 to £1.00 what would happen then?

 

Then I would come in with a £1.50 bid and scoop meeself a cheap mooring!

 

Just joking, but someone would.

 

I've written to BBC R4s You & Yours programme, who ofetn do investigations into unfair practice (whether legal or illegal).

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/youandyours/

 

If several people contact them on the subject they might do an item on the programme which might force BW to publically answer questions about what's going on.

Edited May 6, 2007 by blackrose