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Bettie Boo

Hit Again!

149 posts in this topic

13 hours ago, Wanderer Vagabond said:

And paying tax is clearly not using money wisely, so all of these corporate tax avoiders are actually doing a really good job then?:unsure:

It isn't just me who finds large cash transactions a bit suspect, try and pay a large sum of cash legitimately into your bank and they will be asking you where you got it from as well. They are obliged  under The Money Laundering Regulations 2007 to show application of "...due customer diligence measures...". The fact that cash transactions are effectively untraceable makes them suspect on many levels. As I mentioned earlier, I note that Gypsy Travellers always deal in cash, I wonder why that would be? You'll never prove that one ripped you off because you'll never prove that the transaction ever happened.

I have to say that when someone opens their wallet, displaying large quantities of cash I'm never particularly impressed, my only real thought is 'Why?'

My other half is a bank manager and really its unusual large transactions that attract attention, some restaurants could be putting in 40k a week which would not attract any attention at all. Auctions can also take up to 9k for a car before having to report it, but you could buy 10 cars all below 9k and not get get reporte. As usual they just want to control all aspects of our life including how we spend our MONEY, not theirs we earned it so why shouldnt we decide what method we use to buy things

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5 hours ago, mrsmelly said:

Most people have loads of credit cards today it depends how you want to live your life. My life is completely my own as I have no debt whatsoever. My only direct debits are 2 fones and the dogs insurance all of which can be cancelled in one move as non are on contract.  I f someone has a debt they have no life choice other than to service that debt and tow the line, we have all been there to some extent. Some people stay in debt and obey others their entire life and others get out of debt and stay out. I know which one suits me. I dont have loads of cash just cash.

You seem to be answering a question that was never actually asked here. My life is also completely my own with no debt whatsoever and a reasonable amount of savings, my credit card is principally to buy any stuff that I want to get from the internet (haven't found a means of stuffing hard cash down down the phone line yet :unsure:). Always paid off in full at the end of the month so I'm borrowing the credit card company's money for free, what's not to like? It gives the added insurance of covering me should the company I'm buying stuff from go bust before delivery, something that saved me £300 a few years ago when the company I was buying a computer from took the money then promptly went bust, I was fully reimbursed by the credit card company. Does that happen when you pay someone cash?

 Most other stuff is bought with the debit card in an account that is paying me 3%, which is more than I can find in any instant access savings account. If I have £40 in cash in my wallet that would be a lot for me, the only time that I may carry more than that is on holiday either abroad or somewhere that I can't get near a cashpoint if I need one. Life is a whole lot easier than messing around with a wallet full of cash, one of my pet hates is when stuck at a supermarket checkout behind some granny who insists on paying in exact coinage but can't find the last 5p piece down in the bottom of her handbag somewhere (even though she has several notes in her purse and could just get change from the checkout).

ETA just to keep on topic, whilst typing this I also got hit again by passing hire boat, apologies accepted and no harm done:D

Edited by Wanderer Vagabond
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19 hours ago, lulu fish said:

Legal tender only refers to debts, you can't force someone to take your money to purchase something from them. 

I think you are confusing the terms legal tender and cash.  You may specify the form in which payment is made, but you cannot refuse to accept the legal tender of the country in question.  So if I go into a pub and insist in paying with notes and coins the vendor has to accept it unless he has already stated he doesn't take cash. 

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9 minutes ago, Neil2 said:

I think you are confusing the terms legal tender and cash.  You may specify the form in which payment is made, but you cannot refuse to accept the legal tender of the country in question.  So if I go into a pub and insist in paying with notes and coins the vendor has to accept it unless he has already stated he doesn't take cash. 

It is you that misunderstands the term 'legal tender'.  You can refuse legal tender for purchases, as I said above legal tender only refers to debts.

From the bank of England website:

 

Does legal tender status matter for everyday transactions?

No. Whether you pay with banknotes, coins, debit cards or anything else as payment is a decision between you and the other person involved in the transaction.

In addition, shops are not obliged to accept legal tender. If you hand over a £50 note to pay for a banana in your local grocery store, the staff are within their rights to choose not to accept it. Likewise for all other banknotes – it’s a matter of discretion.

 

http://edu.bankofengland.co.uk/knowledgebank/what-is-legal-tender/

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On 16/04/2017 at 19:49, Neil2 said:

I think you are confusing the terms legal tender and cash.  You may specify the form in which payment is made, but you cannot refuse to accept the legal tender of the country in question.  So if I go into a pub and insist in paying with notes and coins the vendor has to accept it unless he has already stated he doesn't take cash. 

 

No it isn't. The pub is entitled to say it doesn't like the cut of your jib and to sling your hook, and not sell you anything in the first place. 

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21 hours ago, Neil2 said:

I think you are confusing the terms legal tender and cash.  You may specify the form in which payment is made, but you cannot refuse to accept the legal tender of the country in question.  So if I go into a pub and insist in paying with notes and coins the vendor has to accept it unless he has already stated he doesn't take cash. 

I don't think your argument holds up. I have gone into many shops who state that they don't accept £50 notes, they accept other denominations but not £50's, if what you say is correct what right would they have to differentiate?

As another point of interest perfectly legitimate coinage can fail to be 'legal tender'. If I go into a shop and try to pay a £5 bill in 10p pieces they are not legal tender. The shop can accept them if they want but that quantity is no longer legal tender.

ETA just to correct myself, the £5 bill can be paid in 10p pieces, a bill for £5.10 can't though (the legal tender limit for both 5p and 10p pieces is £5)

Edited by Wanderer Vagabond
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14 minutes ago, Wanderer Vagabond said:

I don't think your argument holds up. I have gone into many shops who state that they don't accept £50 notes, they accept other denominations but not £50's, if what you say is correct what right would they have to differentiate?

As another point of interest perfectly legitimate coinage can fail to be 'legal tender'. If I go into a shop and try to pay a £5 bill in 10p pieces they are not legal tender. The shop can accept them if they want but that quantity is no longer legal tender.

Wot yer doing with £50 notes when you declare that you rarely have more than £40 in cash in your pocket. :)

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6 hours ago, bizzard said:

Wot yer doing with £50 notes when you declare that you rarely have more than £40 in cash in your pocket. :)

Inflation innit :D

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7 hours ago, bizzard said:

Wot yer doing with £50 notes when you declare that you rarely have more than £40 in cash in your pocket. :)

Never had a £50 note in my life (wouldn't know what to do with one:huh:) just reading the notices on the wall of shops.:rolleyes:

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On 4/16/2017 at 20:04, lulu fish said:

It is you that misunderstands the term 'legal tender'.  You can refuse legal tender for purchases, as I said above legal tender only refers to debts.

From the bank of England website:

 

Does legal tender status matter for everyday transactions?

No. Whether you pay with banknotes, coins, debit cards or anything else as payment is a decision between you and the other person involved in the transaction.

In addition, shops are not obliged to accept legal tender. If you hand over a £50 note to pay for a banana in your local grocery store, the staff are within their rights to choose not to accept it. Likewise for all other banknotes – it’s a matter of discretion.

 

http://edu.bankofengland.co.uk/knowledgebank/what-is-legal-tender/

I see, if I go to a shop to buy a banana with a £50 note the owner can refuse to accept it, but if I buy the banana on credit and then offer a £50 note in settlement of the debt he must accept it.

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21 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

No it isn't. The pub is entitled to say it doesn't like the cut of your jib and to sling your hook, and not sell you anything in the first place. 

Well it certainly wouldn't be the first time.

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9 minutes ago, Neil2 said:

I see, if I go to a shop to buy a banana with a £50 note the owner can refuse to accept it, but if I buy the banana on credit and then offer a £50 note in settlement of the debt he must accept it.

Yes, and he isn't obliged to give you change. If the banana costs 25p and you offer him more than 25p he's quite entitled to accept your kind offer of £50. 

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34 minutes ago, Neil2 said:

I see, if I go to a shop to buy a banana with a £50 note the owner can refuse to accept it, but if I buy the banana on credit and then offer a £50 note in settlement of the debt he must accept it.

He doesn't have to accept it, but he can't take you to court for non-payment of your banana debt if he turns it down.  Also, as WotEver says, he is not obligated to give you change.

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13 minutes ago, lulu fish said:

He doesn't have to accept it, but he can't take you to court for non-payment of your banana debt if he turns it down.  Also, as WotEver says, he is not obligated to give you change.

This is very true but the contract of sale relies on an agreement.  Therefore whilst the purchaser cannot be sued for non-payment as they have offered legal tender, there is an argument that as there is no agreement/contract if you walked off with the said banana's it would be theft.  However as the seller presumably has advertised acceptance of a minimal amount of legal tender for the exchange it would be difficult to argue that the buyer had not met the terms of the contract of sale.

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I would say given the normal practice of giving change in shops, an implied condition of the contract to treat would be that change is given should the denominations of the legal tender tendered exceed the agreed price.

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4 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

I would say given the normal practice of giving change in shops, an implied condition of the contract to treat would be that change is given should the denominations of the legal tender tendered exceed the agreed price.

You must have come across an occasion where you say "Sorry, I've only got a tenner..." and the shopkeeper has declined the transaction because he can't change it. So yes, it is the norm to expect change but it is not a legal obligation for the seller to provide it. 

So no, it is not an implied contractual term nor otherwise legislated that the seller will give change, just an accepted norm. 

Edited by WotEver
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On 17/04/2017 at 22:53, WotEver said:

You must have come across an occasion where you say "Sorry, I've only got a tenner..." and the shopkeeper has declined the transaction because he can't change it. So yes, it is the norm to expect change but it is not a legal obligation for the seller to provide it. 

So no, it is not an implied contractual term nor otherwise legislated that the seller will give change, just an accepted norm. 

 

In that case the contract is said to be 'frustrated'. 

I disagree with you. The contract creates a legal obligation to give change but if the contract is frustrted, then both sides are excused from performing.

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1 minute ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

In that case the contract is said to be 'frustrated'. 

I disagree with you. The contract creates a legal obligation to give change but if the contract is frustrted, then both sides are excused from performing.

Nope. There is no legal obligation to offer change. You might expect change but if the shopkeeper says "I can't change that" it is purely your decision to either decline the purchase or let him keep the extra. He's under no obligation whatsoever to give you change. Look it up. 

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On 17/04/2017 at 23:05, WotEver said:

Nope. There is no legal obligation to offer change. You might expect change but if the shopkeeper says "I can't change that" it is purely your decision to either decline the purchase or let him keep the extra. He's under no obligation whatsoever to give you change. Look it up. 

Which is exactly what I said. The contract is frustrated so neither side is obliged to perform.

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Just now, Mike the Boilerman said:

Which is exactly what I said. The contract is frustrated so neither side is obliged to perform.

No, you said that there was a 'legal obligation' on the seller to offer change. There is no such obligation. He does not have to offer change. 

If you were to demand that he sell you the banana then it's perfectly legal for him to accept your £50 with no obligation whatsoever to give you any change. You cannot stand in his shop and demand change because he is not obliged to give you any. 

You can decide to go away and come back with the correct money but this only proves the point that the onus is on you to tender the correct amount, not on the seller to provide you with change. 

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5 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

Which is exactly what I said. The contract is frustrated so neither side is obliged to perform.

No it is not.

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49 minutes ago, WotEver said:

You cannot stand in his shop and demand change because he is not obliged to give you any.

No but you could insist on goods to the value tendered - about 65kg of banana's!  

I have 150kg from plants knocked down by cyclone Debbie if anybody is desperate for banana's

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Could oi have a ticket to Birmingham please,said a bloke passing a £50 note to the ticket office clerk at Preston station.  Certainly sir, replied the clerk,  that'll be £26,13p please, change at Crewe.  Oi'll ave me change here, NOW!!, if yer don't moind, said the bloke.

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15 minutes ago, JJPHG said:

I have 150kg from plants knocked down by cyclone Debbie if anybody is desperate for banana's

I have some newly hatched chickens going cheep...

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