Lock etiquette

[pomkitanner]

Just returned from our Euro trip, had a ball especially our few days hiring from Wyvern shipping . Everything went really good until our last day when negotiating the Soulbury 3 locks .We had climbed the first two levels and were just entering the last lock. The girls had closed the gates behind as instructed, but it had opened again of its own accord. Why I have no idea but we had seen this happen previously . It was then that a local guy came out of the woods shouting and screaming that we were violating accepted practice and wasting water. His language and attitude was close to threatening and certainly was extremely aggressive.. It was then that I stepped in saying to my 2 crewmates to ignore him as even if they did close it would likely open again by itself. This did not help lower his level of aggression, but only produced a tirade of abuse . To placate him we agreed to return and again close the gate, after first admonishing him for his expletives directed toward my wife and other female companion. They were understandably upset . Really put a damper on what had until then been a wonderful week. So, what should be expected in such a situation ?

 

Derek.

[alan_fincher]

Can you clarify "local guy" please?

 

One of the CRT volunteer lock keepers often in attendance, or just a member of Joe public?

Edited June 4, 2016 by alan_fincher

[Rick-n-Jo]

Never any excuse for abusive behaviour, could actually be a criminal offence. If the plonker was really worried about water wastage or gate damage he could have just put his bum against the beam and pushed it shut for you.

Don't let it spoil your memories of the trip.

[Captain Pegg]

Just returned from our Euro trip, had a ball especially our few days hiring from Wyvern shipping . Everything went really good until our last day when negotiating the Soulbury 3 locks .We had climbed the first two levels and were just entering the last lock. The girls had closed the gates behind as instructed, but it had opened again of its own accord. Why I have no idea but we had seen this happen previously . It was then that a local guy came out of the woods shouting and screaming that we were violating accepted practice and wasting water. His language and attitude was close to threatening and certainly was extremely aggressive.. It was then that I stepped in saying to my 2 crewmates to ignore him as even if they did close it would likely open again by itself. This did not help lower his level of aggression, but only produced a tirade of abuse . To placate him we agreed to return and again close the gate, after first admonishing him for his expletives directed toward my wife and other female companion. They were understandably upset . Really put a damper on what had until then been a wonderful week. So, what should be expected in such a situation ?

 

Derek.

It's a real shame that experience has tarnished your holiday. Some gates simply do not stay put. It can be the effect of water moving through bywashes or drawing of paddles above or below, or simply just the action of wind given that the gates are designed to be balanced.

 

You have done nothing wrong and sometimes you just have to leave them - I found a top gate I physically couldn't shut last week - and carry on. The bloke concerned was totally out of order but I know that is little consolation having had similar happen to me when hiring.

 

At the end of the day leaving one set of gates open on a busy waterway is of little issue; just don't do it deliberately.

 

I hope you still enjoyed your holiday and will return.

 

Jon

[alan_fincher]

If the plonker was really worried about water wastage or gate damage he could have just put his bum against the beam and pushed it shut for you.

 

I may have misunderstood OP's description, but I assumed that after they had moved out of the middle lock, going up, and shut the top gates, that they had swung open again as they progressed to work the top lock.

 

If so this is a highly usual situation with Grand Union locks, and not exactly something to get shouty about. If my interpretation is correct we are not talking about a part open gate slamming shut as a paddle is drawn, so potential gate damage can't apply. During the day there is generally a fair number of boats through Three Locks, so a pair of gates that have swung open after a passage are pretty likely soon going to be closed again anyway, as the next boat uses that lock.

[Paul C]

Some gates stay closed when you lean on the gate and give it a few seconds for the water etc to calm down. In other words, if you're too hasty they will come open again.

 

Some gates swing open even if you did the above, due to they way they're hung. I don't know the area, so I don't know which one this is, but Alan knows the area and says its highly usual. I give it one decent try, if the gate doesn't stay shut, ignore it.

[MtB]

There are people about in this world who just enjoy conflict and seek it out. I think you encountered one of these.

 

If he lives on a boat I bet he screams 'SLOW DOWN' at every passing boat too.

 

There is no logic to his accusation of wasting water. You could have made the gate stay shut by cracking a lower paddle but this would waste far more water than leaving the swinging upper gate open!

Edited June 4, 2016 by Mike the Boilerman

[Peter X]

I'd agree with everything in the replies so far; once I've made a reasonable attempt at shutting gate(s), including as Paul C says waiting a little for the water to calm down, I just walk away and leave it. Water is very unlikely to be wasted then, because if the bottom gate does leak the flow is likely to pull the top gate shut after a while.

 

The man may have been committing an offence under the Public Order Act 1986, intimidating behaviour I think it's called; that's a law which in my view should be enforced much more than it is, to put these people in their place.

[MtB]

One also wonders if this chap lurks in the woods there waiting for passing boats, and if a similar performance occurs several times a day.

[MtB]

I ocne had a similar experience single handing a small flight of three locks. I got ranted and raved at by a passing towpath walker for not shutting the gate on the lock I'd left before entering the next (which I'd gone ahead to set).

 

I was intending to go back and close the gate on the lock I'd just left but this guy launched into me assuming I was gonna just leave it. It all seemed so unfair and I was surprisingly upset by it at the time.

[Captain Pegg]

There are people about in this world who just enjoy conflict and seek it out. I think you encountered one of these.

 

If he lives on a boat I bet he screams 'SLOW DOWN' at every passing boat too.

 

There is no logic to his accusation of wasting water. You could have made the gate stay shut by cracking a lower paddle but this would waste far more water than leaving the swinging upper gate open!

Yep. Sounds about right.

 

Last week when approaching Wolverley lock from above there was a boat ascending and doing so cautiously judging by the paddle positions. So I pulled on to the lock landing and tied my centre line round a bollard and disappered inside to make some drinks as the kettle was just boiling. After I did that I emerged to find the ascending boat pulling away from the jaws of the lock having stopped to close the top gate. I walked forward holding out my hands and shrugging my shoulders to suggest 'why' to which I got an aggressive shouted response 'well you showed no signs mate, you didn't come and tell us' to which I responded 'well I am tied by centre line on the landing and I am on my own with two children to look after'. Again I got 'well you have to let us know, you made no effort'. So apparently approaching a lock while someone is using it and tying by centre line on the landing isn't showing intent to use a lock!

 

JP

[alan_fincher]

One also wonders if this chap lurks in the woods there waiting for passing boats, and if a similar performance occurs several times a day.

 

I've never experienced it.

 

I'm assuming they were not authorised by CRT!

 

Three Locks regularly also has volunteer lock keepers operating. A couple of the regulars are some of the best I have seen, (they are boaters as well). However occasionally you get one that wants you to adopt their particular way of doing things. Sometimes, in my view this is reasonable, (it is possible to flood the tow-path at the pub by over-enthusiastic drawing of paddles!), but at other times what they want can be odd. It's the exception though - most of the volunteers there are good.

 

I doubt thus was a volunteer though, unless we are told he was uniformed, in which case I would definitely register a complaint with CRT about what occurred. Abuse by anybody in a situation like this is completely unacceptable.

Edited June 4, 2016 by alan_fincher

[MtB]

It seems unlikely this chap was a volly as the OP says he emerged from the woods. I'd expect a volly on duty to have been at the lock.

[pomkitanner]

Can you clarify "local guy" please?

 

One of the CRT volunteer lock keepers often in attendance, or just a member of Joe public?

The guy in question identified himself only as "Those of us who live on the water " ( part of the conversation ) He had no identifying uniform such as a lock volunteer might. He was also with who I imagine was his wife, who while not contributing to the conversation, appeared to support her partner. He referred to an incident earlier when other boaters had left gates open resulting in damage to the area to one side . ( unsure what this area is , but was dry , where it appears it should not have been ? ) He also had pics on his smart phone of said damage that he insisted I view . Just got the impression he had a beef with hirers ?

[MtB]

Hard to understand how leaving gates open leads to damage. Paddles left open can occasionally lead to drained pounds but even if so, claiming damage seems way out of proportion.

 

I still think the gate swings open and gets left by every other boat passing, and he knows this.

[NB Lola]

Derek,

 

He should be viewed as part of life's rich tapestry, without such you would never value the truly greater things in life. You now know how great canal boating is inspite of this individual. Concentrate on the great time you had, far better and more memorable than the chap you describe.

[bigste]

If I encounter him he'll be told to 'suck a bomb and die happy', what a tosser.

[Horace42]

Just returned from our Euro trip, had a ball especially our few days hiring from Wyvern shipping . Everything went really good until our last day when negotiating the Soulbury 3 locks .We had climbed the first two levels and were just entering the last lock. The girls had closed the gates behind as instructed, but it had opened again of its own accord. Why I have no idea but we had seen this happen previously . It was then that a local guy came out of the woods shouting and screaming that we were violating accepted practice and wasting water. His language and attitude was close to threatening and certainly was extremely aggressive.. It was then that I stepped in saying to my 2 crewmates to ignore him as even if they did close it would likely open again by itself. This did not help lower his level of aggression, but only produced a tirade of abuse . To placate him we agreed to return and again close the gate, after first admonishing him for his expletives directed toward my wife and other female companion. They were understandably upset . Really put a damper on what had until then been a wonderful week. So, what should be expected in such a situation ?

 

Derek.

My sympathies. If lock gates are not balanced correctly (a CRT liability - and sometimes happens) they can swing open (or shut) of their own accord. (This was one of the reasons we abandoned out trip on the K&A - just two elderly boaters - and we couldn't cope with 4 heavy unbalanced gate on double locks)

Apart from verbal abuse, which is wrong, my only criticism in your case, is one of your crew could have closed the gate the second time, before finally leaving. Then if it swung open again, there was not much you could do about it.

The next boat to use the lock will find the gate open, and unknown to you will probably cuss you but soon to offer mental apologies when they find out for themselves that the gate swings open by itself.

If you just left it open without trying, then an onlooker might think you was lazy or inconsiderate. But in your defence, the onlooker would need to 'know' about lock gates and etiquette to come to this conclusion - and if it was me - I would have closed the gate for you and waved you on with a cheer.

But don't let it worry you. We have all been shouted at in our time (...or have we??)

[Captain Pegg]

My sympathies. If lock gates are not balanced correctly (a CRT liability - and sometimes happens) they can swing open (or shut) of their own accord.

How is a lock gate correctly balanced?

 

JP

[Paul C]

How is a lock gate correctly balanced?

 

JP

If its opened more than half way, it gently swings open. If its closed more than half way, it gently swings closed. There is an oval section on one of the pivots and at the half way point it shifts a couple of inches one way or another, so its weighted/balanced to swing in the desired direction.

[nicknorman]

How is a lock gate correctly balanced?

JP

It's to do with the verticality (or not) of the hinge line.

Anyway, to the OP remember that the you were having a great time whereas the guy was miserable as sin and having a terrible time. So, whilst you might struggle to find sympathy for his misery, you can at least be pleased that your life isn't so miserable as to have to go around shouting at strangers in an ultimately fruitless attempt to make yourself feel better.

[mark99]

Karma will see to that fool. If he carries on like that someone will clump him. Probably the female crew member lol.

[Captain Pegg]

If its opened more than half way, it gently swings open. If its closed more than half way, it gently swings closed. There is an oval section on one of the pivots and at the half way point it shifts a couple of inches one way or another, so its weighted/balanced to swing in the desired direction.

It's to do with the verticality (or not) of the hinge line.Anyway, to the OP remember that the you were having a great time whereas the guy was miserable as sin and having a terrible time. So, whilst you might struggle to find sympathy for his misery, you can at least be pleased that your life isn't so miserable as to have to go around shouting at strangers in an ultimately fruitless attempt to make yourself feel better.

 

Cheers guys. I figured from the way the gates shift in operation that may be the case. However isn't that a pretty imprecise technology and I would have thought more susceptible to the correct function being lost through wear and tear rather than an incorrect initial set up?

 

I have seen a few comments on CRTs seeming inability to balance gates and I wondered about the fairness of such statements.

 

JP

[nicknorman]

Cheers guys. I figured from the way the gates shift in operation that may be the case. However isn't that a pretty imprecise technology and I would have thought more susceptible to the correct function being lost through wear and tear rather than an incorrect initial set up?

I have seen a few comments on CRTs seeming inability to balance gates and I wondered about the fairness of such statements.

JP

Yes it is fairly imprecise and of course a compromise. If the effect is too pronounced, folk complain that big wide-lock gates are too hard to get moving (either open or closed) and if too little, there is a propensity to swing open or closed unattended. Of course the things are made of wood, attached to 200 year old masonry and battered by careless and incompetent boaters.

 

But I suggest that adjusting the "balance" from time to time should be part of routine maintenance especially as gates that swing open can waste a lot of precious water. It is the lack of husbandry caused by the absence of "proper" lengthsmen and lock keepers that is at the root of the problem.

[RichM]

Don't worry, you will always find bad apples.

 

It's interesting though as I had a similar issue recently while doing the Droitwich ring single-handed. I'd close the lock gate, get back back on my boat, move off only for it to open again!! A couple times I went back to close it but after that I gave up but not until a few swear words ran through inside my head! I did wonder how I'd deal with a situation like you described had it occurred but fortunately there was no drama.

Edited June 4, 2016 by Armitage Shanks