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Strange Business Procedure - Is it Just Me?


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I have been trying (with difficulty) to find someone to carry out a repair on the loo in our boat and was reminded by Dave that RCR do a service where they will arrange for an engineer to come and visit the boat and carry out the repair for you. Of course there is a charge involved but they have a database of hundreds of engineers all over the country and as our biggest problem is that we are in a place with very few boat yard facilities available it seemed worth giving them a call to see what options are available.

 

Their website states:

 

Contact us with the details of your requirements and we will give you a 'no obligation' quote for the work. We will organise the engineer, the time and the price and will fully guarantee the work. Why not contact us now to get a quote for any jobs you have been putting off? Simply complete our online enquiry form and we will organise for someone to get back to you within 24 hrs.

 

So I gave them a call and sure enough it was explained to me this is what happens. Whatever the cost of the work is there will be a 10% fee on top for them arranging it for us. Well, dependent upon what the quote is this could seem reasonable.

 

I am advised the quote is completely free of charge but they will not give you a quote unless you hand over your card details to them! Now while I am sure they are a reputable company and will take care of my card details I object to being asked for card details before they have even quoted me. I questioned this and was told they ask for the details at the first contact because too many jobs escalate fast to completion and then the customer does not pay for the work afterwards.

 

Now while I completely understand how bad it is for business to have customers who don't pay for the work I still do not see why they need card details BEFORE they quote. In my view the card details should be obtained at the point the quote is accepted before the work proceeds. I suggested this to them and was told that in the past their staff have failed to get the card details at that point so now they ask for them before they quote so they know they will get paid. It strikes me that they are potentially compromising the customers card details because they don't have safeguards in their operating procedure to ensure work does not go ahead without a confirmed payment method on file. They advised my card details would be deleted if I did not proceed (which I am sure will happen) but there is no need for them to even have the details at that point and I find it hard to believe that people actually hand them over.

 

If I called up a heating engineer and asked for a quote for a new boiler I don't think I would be using him if he asked for my card details before he even came to quote, likewise a painter and decorator.

 

What do others think?

 

 

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I don't think it's uncommon. Several times when we have booked a stay in a hotel, we have been asked for a credit or debit card number in advance but have been told that the money won't actually be taken until we arrive, and indeed it hasn't been. As R.C.R. are a very well known, reputable organisation I can't see a problem.

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I don't think it's uncommon. Several times when we have booked a stay in a hotel, we have been asked for a credit or debit card number in advance but have been told that the money won't actually be taken until we arrive, and indeed it hasn't been. As R.C.R. are a very well known, reputable organisation I can't see a problem.

 

I can understand it with a hotel booking, before the digital age it was not unusual for you to send a cheque as a holding deposit for such things. After all the point you give the details to the hotel is AFTER they have told you the cost of the reservation and at the point you want to make the booking.

 

If you called a hotel asking for their rates and availability for your chosen dates and they replied they needed your card details before they told you would you feel the same?

 

The irony about it is that as we have just renewed our membership they already have our card details!

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I agree. I cannot see any advantage to them what so ever from taking the card details at that point rather than the actual time they provide a firm quote.

 

They are not doing anything dodgy of course it's just illogical as far as I can see.

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If as stated they have had problems with their staff not getting credit card / payment details once a quote has been accepted, how can you be sure your credit card details are deleted if the quote is not accepted and the work does not proceed?

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They are asking you to trust their staff with your card data because they don't trust their staff to take the details at the sensible time (when the quote is accepted). Weird.

 

Yes that is my point, putting the emphasis upon the customer instead of getting appropriate systems in place in house to ensure this can't happen.

If as stated they have had problems with their staff not getting credit card / payment details once a quote has been accepted, how can you be sure your credit card details are deleted if the quote is not accepted and the work does not proceed?

 

My point exactly - it does not give confidence.

 

I have to say that I DO trust them but it is the principle I do not like

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I can totally understand why they do this. I operate a similar policy where my customer is not going to be present so I don't have to waste time after, chasing for payment.

 

Anyone who is any good at what they do and therefore in demand is in a position to dictate terms of business. There are no 'rules'. I get the occasional one who objects too along similar lines, saying it is not 'normal business practice' (usually letting agents objecting!) but I don't see why I should expose myself to extra risk just because my competitors do.

 

My view is the type of customer who objects to paying up front is the same customer who is likely to be evasive when chased for payment after to work has been done. (Not suggesting you wouldn't pay CR, just explaining my and probably their thinking. Thye've already told you their old policy resulted in not getting paid sometimes!)

 

Thing is, I don't need the customer who quibbles about payment terms, I prefer them to go to a competitor and my policy smokes them out in advance. I suspect RCR feel the same.

 

Have you tried asking the manufacturer of your loo for a list of service agents? I bet they get asked all the time!

Edited by Mike the Boilerman
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Is RCR an introduction agent ? if so I suspect this is to stop you paying the engineer direct for a discount and cutting them out of the loop . I suspect that happens alot as someone has to pay RCR and I suspect it is both engineer AND you hence in both parties interest to try and cut them out .

 

It would be quite difficult for RCR to get paid in these circumstances and pursuing payment through the court system for relatively small amounts ( in business terms ) is both time consuming and costly much easier to take your card details up front before they do any work at all including quoting

  • Greenie 1
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I can totally understand why they do this. I operate a similar policy where my customer is not going to be present so I don't have to waste time after, chasing for payment.

 

Anyone who is any good at what they do and therefore in demand is in a position to dictate terms of business. There are no 'rules'. I get the occasional one who objects too along similar lines, saying it is not 'normal business practice' (usually letting agents objecting!) but I don't see why I should expose myself to extra risk just because my competitors do.

 

My view is the type of customer who objects to paying up front is the same customer who is likely to be evasive when chased for payment after to work has been done. (Not suggesting you wouldn't pay CR, just explaining my and probably their thinking. Thye've already told you their old policy resulted in not getting paid sometimes!)

 

Thing is, I don't need the customer who quibbles about payment terms, I prefer them to go to a competitor and my policy smokes them out in advance. I suspect RCR feel the same.

 

Have you tried asking the manufacturer of your loo for a list of service agents? I bet they get asked all the time!

 

 

If you offer to give a free quote then what risk is it you are exposing yourself to by failing to take the card details BEFORE you quote?

 

I have no qualms at all in giving the details once I am happy with the quote and want them to proceed with the work. The reason their policy meant they failed to get paid sometimes was because they didn't ask for the card details when the go ahead was given for the work. Nobody needs anyone quibbling about payment terms and I am more than happy to pay the going rate to get the job done.

 

I am equally as happy to pay the zero cost of getting a quote but why they need my card details for something there is zero cost for is beyond me.

 

Clearly they reviewed their system and saw they had jobs that had not been paid for because their staff had not got the details prior to giving the engineer the go ahead to do the work.

 

Perhaps in a couple of years time they will review their system and start wondering why so many potential customers did not proceed to the quote stage.

  • Greenie 1
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It seems apparent the this RCR outfit is just a non practical, money making middle man. Walk away.

Try and do a little more research to find an individual with a good reputation.

I'm a self employed builder, which is obviously a competitive market, but in that game, quoting for free is something one has to do (and accept) in order to get a foot in the door.

I would never ask for money up front, personally i think its gives the wrong impression, as everyone has heard of the unscrupulous builder who has done a runner with the cash. The nearest thing i do, is stage payments (if the job requires high financial outlay) Besides, experience will generally tell you if the client is serious or not, even within the first 5 minutes of meeting them.

My philosophy is, do a good, honest job for people and be polite, tidy and punctual.

In 8 years, i've never had a non payer.

I appreciate it can be different for trades

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Is RCR an introduction agent ? if so I suspect this is to stop you paying the engineer direct for a discount and cutting them out of the loop . I suspect that happens alot as someone has to pay RCR and I suspect it is both engineer AND you hence in both parties interest to try and cut them out .

 

It would be quite difficult for RCR to get paid in these circumstances and pursuing payment through the court system for relatively small amounts ( in business terms ) is both time consuming and costly much easier to take your card details up front before they do any work at all including quoting

 

I suppose yes, it could be described as an introduction agent and I can see that it could be hard to reclaim the costs if people didn't pay.

 

Surely a contract only becomes binding once a price has been agreed though and why do they need my details BEFORE they tell me the price?

It seems apparent the this RCR outfit is just a non practical, money making middle man. Walk away.

Try and do a little more research to find an individual with a good reputation.

 

 

I AM trying......

 

http://www.canalworld.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=82988

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It seems apparent the this RCR outfit is just a non practical, money making middle man. Walk away.

 

To whom does it "seem apparent"?

Of course they wish to make money, they are a business.

To the best of my knowledge, they employ fitters, but have independent people on whom they can call at busy times.

We have been members or at least seven years and have always been satisfied with them.

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Looks like you NEED the services of RCR as a middle man, with their extensive contacts etc..........yes its unusual but its also completely understandable, especially if RCR are acting as middleman and taking a percentage of the price - otherwise they may freely introduce you, then you may freely try to deal with the engineer direct, and RCR have lost out. The contract has already started, when you asked RCR to try find someone to fix the boat.......

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To whom does it "seem apparent"?

Of course they wish to make money, they are a business.

To the best of my knowledge, they employ fitters, but have independent people on whom they can call at busy times.

We have been members or at least seven years and have always been satisfied with them.

apparent to anyone self employed! I for one don't enjoy seeing people capitalise for doing very little and not getting their hands dirty. Bit like banks really.

 

still, you pay for money, you takes your choice!

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Looks like you NEED the services of RCR as a middle man, with their extensive contacts etc..........yes its unusual but its also completely understandable, especially if RCR are acting as middleman and taking a percentage of the price - otherwise they may freely introduce you, then you may freely try to deal with the engineer direct, and RCR have lost out. The contract has already started, when you asked RCR to try find someone to fix the boat.......

 

I acknowledge it does look like I need them. The only contract that started was the one where they were offering me a free quote. They don't require card details for that

 

My understanding of the service is that they would take details of the problem - go away and locate an engineer who can quote me then come back to me with a price. At that point I have no knowledge of who the engineer is - just what their quote is.

 

If I decided to go ahead I give them card details - if I don't then I walk away completely oblivious of who the engineer is and have gained nothing other than the quote.

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