Organisationalm Chart For CRT Management?

[alan_fincher]

Can anybody point me at anything on the CRT site that shows the management structure below director level please?

At the moment I can find only this....

CRT Directors

(As an aside of course, all except Richard Parry and Property Director Stuart Mills are appointments within about the last year - Parry now being the second longest serving Director).

There used to be charts that showed management structure for some levels below director, but this is the second time at least I have failed to find them.

 

Can anybody help please.

 

I want roles, name in the role, and a real bonus would be job descriptions.

[alan_fincher]

EDIT:

Just found this by a bit of intensive use of Google.

Business Boating Presentation

A partial organisational chart on Page 3 appears to show "The Boating Team".

However although it seems to give some clarity about who reports to "Head of Boating" Mike Grimes, it is not entirely obvious if Make is a direct report only to Ian Rogers, or whether he and his team also have some kind of reporting relationship to Stuart Mills.....

[EDIT AGAIN: Actually, reading the rest of the doc it looks like the Boating Team reporting line is just through Ian Rogers]

Is a single chart, (or set of charts) available that shows all managers down to the kind of level I have found in this presentation please?

Should this stuff be so hard to dig out?

Edited January 24, 2016 by alan_fincher

[Martin Megson]

This link might be useful. Seems to go to a reasonable depth.

 

https://canalrivertrust.org.uk/media/original/25693-new-operations-and-management-structure-november-2014-updated-september-2015.pdf

[matty40s]

[jenlyn]

Hahaha. Greenie.

[alan_fincher]

This link might be useful. Seems to go to a reasonable depth.

 

https://canalrivertrust.org.uk/media/original/25693-new-operations-and-management-structure-november-2014-updated-september-2015.pdf

 

Thanks Martin.

 

Despite the update date, not actually that current, in all areas, I think.

 

It doesn't cover names and roles I was looking for though, but might contain some detail useful at another time.

 

(Didn't quite get to say hello to you passing as at High House Wharf yesterday, by the way - or at least I think it was your boat...)

[Guest]

Should this stuff be so hard to dig out?

No it shouldn't, not least because of the government grant they still receive and as such are being in part still funded by the tax payer, which in itself justifies more openness and accountability.

 

That said other (wholly) publicly funded organisation such as NHS Trusts can be equally (??even more) difficult to dig down into in terms of understanding management structures and who does what. It seems to stop at board director level (a bit like CRT) and below that it's like pulling teeth to get easy access on the internet to such information.

 

I'm not quite sure why they are so circumspect with it TBH.

[Stilllearning]

Most of us boaters, and ex-boaters, know lots of local C&RT staff, managers etc. It should therefore be possible for us, as a group, to put together a fairly accurate structure and staff diagram, albeit, not easily, I admit.

Any volunteers?

[cuthound]

Strange, it doesn't mention the Special High Intensity Training

[koukouvagia]

I share Alan's frustration in never finding the right person at CaRT who can sort out a problem. Part of the difficulty is that personnel change so rapidly that as soon as you've built up a relationship that person leaves or is transferred.

 

I have found the following three members of staff extremely helpful and, what is more, will actually get things done.

 

Adam Dowd - Boat Licensing Administrator at Leeds. Finally, after ten years of wrangling with BW/CaRT, he sorted out my mooring licences.

Ian Final. Not sure what his position is, but he's the man to go to when nothing seems to be done about leaks, water supplies, stoppages etc. Old school. Knows his patch inside out.

Martha Holdom. She's in charge, I think, of external contractors. She will deal most effectively if there's a tree blocking the canal or the towpath is collapsing etc.

 

The last two are part of the SE Waterways team.

 

I'll refrain from naming the employees of CaRT that I've learnt to avoid because they are utterly useless.

[Martin Megson]

It was indeed me passing by. Sorry I missed you

[Jerra]

Am being naive (again) has CRT been asked for this? If so have they refused?

[Guest]

Am being naive (again) has CRT been asked for this? If so have they refused?

I think the issue is it shouldn't need to be asked for, the information should be readily available in the public domain, they would do well to put it on their web site for a start.

[Jerra]

I think the issue is it shouldn't need to be asked for, the information should be readily available in the public domain, they would do well to put it on their web site for a start.

This is of course true but unless somebody draws it to their attention it will continue to be overlooked/hidden/forgotten (call it whichever conspiracy theory you prefer).

 

Surely a request for the information along with a request/statement that it would be easier for everybody if it were on the net easily available would be a step in the right direction. Or is discussing it on a boating forum going to bring about the same result?

[alan_fincher]

Am being naive (again) has CRT been asked for this? If so have they refused?

 

It used to be available - I'm kind of surprised I can no longer find it.

 

I try not to keep asking CRT for things if there are othewr people out there who can point me at them, hence my question here.

 

If all else fails, I will ask them - providing I can find something that tells me who is a candidate person to ask! ()

[alan_fincher]

Surely a request for the information along with a request/statement that it would be easier for everybody if it were on the net easily available would be a step in the right direction.

 

Who in CRT would you ask, then?

 

And once you have answered that, who in CRT would you ask why it is possible to find two different versions of the "Visitor Moorings Framework" document on their web-sire, each saying slightly different things. It has no authorship assosciated with it, nor does it say which "department" owns it.

 

Half the trick with CRT is keeping up to date with who may be able to provide a sensible answer. (I am not into the game of raising FOIA requests for everything I would like to know).

 

Or is discussing it on a boating forum going to bring about the same result?

 

It might have, had someone been able to point me at it, (and people on here are contactable on a Sunday).

[Guest]

This is of course true but unless somebody draws it to their attention it will continue to be overlooked/hidden/forgotten (call it whichever conspiracy theory you prefer).

 

Surely a request for the information along with a request/statement that it would be easier for everybody if it were on the net easily available would be a step in the right direction. Or is discussing it on a boating forum going to bring about the same result?

Sorry but an organisation like CRT shouldn't over look something so basic. I personally don't subscribe to CRT conspiracy theories BTW, This looks more like simple incompetence.

[Jerra]

 

Who in CRT would you ask, then?

 

And once you have answered that, who in CRT would you ask why it is possible to find two different versions of the "Visitor Moorings Framework" document on their web-sire, each saying slightly different things.

 

The obvious answer to both those is Mr Parry explaining that as the required information isn't available on the web site he will need to action it and pass it to the right people.

Sorry but an organisation like CRT shouldn't over look something so basic. I personally don't subscribe to CRT conspiracy theories BTW, This looks more like simple incompetence.

So somebody needs to point this particular piece of incompetence out to them otherwise it will continue.

[Guest]

The obvious answer to both those is Mr Parry explaining that as the required information isn't available on the web site he will need to action it and pass it to the right people.

So somebody needs to point this particular piece of incompetence out to them otherwise it will continue.

Perhaps, though my point is nobody should have needed to.

[Allan(nb Albert)]

Can anybody point me at anything on the CRT site that shows the management structure below director level please?

 

At the moment I can find only this....

 

CRT Directors

 

(As an aside of course, all except Richard Parry and Property Director Stuart Mills are appointments within about the last year - Parry now being the second longest serving Director).

 

There used to be charts that showed management structure for some levels below director, but this is the second time at least I have failed to find them.

 

Can anybody help please.

 

I want roles, name in the role, and a real bonus would be job descriptions.

The only official documents that have been published are the two that you have already been given links to.

 

CaRT have stated in the past (response to a FOIA request by Nick Brown requesting an 'enforcement' organisation chart) that they are not obliged to provide this sort of information under the Freedom of Information Act. However, they did 'volunteer' to provide a chart without names and have subsequently provided names and contact details of enforcement officers.

 

There has certainly been a growing tendency over the last year or so to publish documents that are not attributable to an individual or department.

 

 

[bassplayer]

Complexity = Bullshit

Simplicity = Truth

 

That doesn't add up to wisdom in my book Matty.

 

...oops, sorry, I'm getting serious again...

[Allan(nb Albert)]

Perhaps, though my point is nobody should have needed to.

In devil's advocate mode, I would suspect that CaRT would argue that the public do not need the fine detail of an organisation chart because they simply need to contact customer services who will either resolve any issue or put them in touch with the person that can do so. If they are not happy then they are protected by CaRT's complaints procedure and the Waterways Ombudsman.

 

However, I see no reason why they can not publish an organisation chart showing two or three levels down from Chief Executive rather than just one.

Edited January 24, 2016 by Allan(nb Albert)

[bassplayer]

In devil's advocate mode, I would suspect that CaRT would argue that the public do not need the fine detail of an organisation chart because they simply need to contact customer services who will either resolve any issue or put them in touch with the person that can do so. If they are not happy then they are protected by CaRT's complaints procedure and the Waterways Ombudsman.

 

However, I see no reason why they can not publish an organisation chart showing two or three levels down from Chief Executive rather than just one.

The problem with exposing an organisational chart to the public these days is that it's not difficult to track people down via the Internet. It could be argued that CEO's earn their salary after all.

[Tony Dunkley]

In devil's advocate mode, I would suspect that CaRT would argue that the public do not need the fine detail of an organisation chart because they simply need to contact customer services who will either resolve any issue or put them in touch with the person that can do so. If they are not happy then they are protected by CaRT's complaints procedure and the Waterways Ombudsman.

 

Quite frankly Allan, and from personal experience of using it, I think anyone following C&RT's complaints procedure is on a hiding to nothing from the start, and as for the Waterways Ombudsman, . . . . a post that I left on another topic earlier today would not be out of place here : ~

 

The present, very un-independent incumbent, Andrew Walker, was appointed in late 2012 by C&RT themselves following the earlier dissolution of the Waterways Ombudsman Committee.

More accurately described as a Waterways Ombiasman, he is about as useful as Lord Lucan's Passport, and submits his findings to C&RT for their approval prior to finalization.

[Allan(nb Albert)]

 

Quite frankly Allan, and from personal experience of using it, I think anyone following C&RT's complaints procedure is on a hiding to nothing from the start, and as for the Waterways Ombudsman, . . . . a post that I left on another topic earlier today would not be out of place here : ~

 

The present, very un-independent incumbent, Andrew Walker, was appointed in late 2012 by C&RT themselves following the earlier dissolution of the Waterways Ombudsman Committee.

More accurately described as a Waterways Ombiasman, he is about as useful as Lord Lucan's Passport, and submits his findings to C&RT for their approval prior to finalization.

I did say I was playing devils advocate ...

 

You are, of course, correct.

 

Andrew Walker, the Waterways Ombudsman, was not properly appointed according to the rules of the Waterways Ombudsman scheme.

 

The current Waterways Ombudsman's Committee was not properly appointed according to the rules of the Waterways Ombudsman scheme.

 

The Waterways Ombudsman's scheme is no longer recognised its 'governing body', the Waterways Ombudsman Association.

 

However, this does not stop CaRT from promoting it as an independent scheme.

Edited January 24, 2016 by Allan(nb Albert)