Stopping tidily at lock landings...

[MtB]

Ok, as a solo boater I've always had a problem doing this.

 

I'd like to be able to come alongside close and parallel to a lock landing and stop.

 

What actually happens is when I engage astern to finally halt the boat, the stern gets pushed rapidly away from the bank and I can no longer step off. Bear in mind I'm cruising single handed.

 

Another technique is to approach the lock landing at an angle, engage astern so the bow just kisses the bank as the boat comes to a halt, Then apply a bit of ahead and full rudder defection to push the stern into the bank and step off with the centre line. This works moderately well for me but the the bow moves rapidly away from the bank and it takes a fair bit of effort to haul the boat back in and it looks as though I cocked it up royally!

 

The final method is to not bother with astern but to strap the boat to a halt with the stern line or centre line. Seems clumsy.

 

How do you lot do it?!

 

Thanks...

 

 

 

 

[Keeping Up]

Just a small change to your second method, apply only enough steering to get the stern moving towards the lock landing while you're still in forward gear, so that the bow which was travelling towards the bank now travels parallel to it, then that outward push that you get when you engage reverse to stop the boat as mentioned in your first method, also stops the bankwards swing of the stern. It's a balancing act but it can achieve the result you want.

[Peter X]

I've only ever attempted this once single handed, a week ago on Foxy's boat, and was successful. Beginner's luck?

I was coming out of a lock onto its landing, but that would make no difference to the method I think, so long as it's on a canal not a flowing river. I approached slowly in neutral at a slight angle, turning at the last moment to come parallel, stepped off with the centre line and put that round a bollard to stop the boat, then took the line off the bollard to pull the boat in closer before tying up.

 

In fact I moored us on the lock landing for the rest of the day and overnight; this was acceptable behaviour for the time and place (Tuel Lane lock on the Rochdale in December, no other boater booked to go through) but would otherwise not usually be right!

[nicknorman]

It's interesting that when we used to borrow my mate's boat it was never an issue. This was a mike Haywood /Evans & son (same hull as the fincher's "chalice") fairly shallow drafted boat. But when we got Telemachus (2'8" draft, big prop, lots of stopping power) suddenly it was a big issue.

 

Wot I to to do is: come in fairly slowly. I'll perhaps hit reverse a bit before starting to come in so the boat is going slow, then into fwd to come in at quite a sharp angle. Just before the bow is going to contact I'll give a good shove of the rudder to keep the bow off (mustn't scratch the shiny paint!) and bring the stern in. We've got a big rudder so the response even at tickover is "a lot" but I spect you have too. As soon as the angular velocity has built up - ie stern has momentum towards the bank - I'll hit reverse. Hopefully the boat stops with the back right in and front nearly so, I hit neutral and hop off with the centre line. Although the boat has stopped nearly against the bank, if I don't get the line around something pdq, T-boat will be off across the canal in a jiffy. Water swirls past between the bank and the boat (left over vortices from the reverse) for ages, pushing the boat away.

 

In fact perhaps the correct answer is to aim for the opposite bank, hit reverse and wait a few moments, then the boat will cross the canal and end up on the side you really wanted to go to in the first place. That would be called "fooling the boat" but probably it will soon get the idea and change its behaviour.

Edited December 31, 2015 by nicknorman

[FadeToScarlet]

I don't normally use lock landings, too easy to go aground.

 

If I do, I'll usually strap the boat to a stop, so it stays parallel.

[Mac of Cygnet]

I don't think there can be a universal formula. I do the same thing every time, not just at lock landings (which, like FTS, I only use when I have to), and it usually works fine, but sometimes goes so spectacularly wrong that I end up at a terrible angle in the middle of the canal - in fact a few times I've turned completely round (only 27ft) which at least gave me the chance to try again!

 

I think it mainly depends on the profile of the bank and whether anyone is watching.

[Paul C]

I only use lock landings 5% of the time. If going down locks I'll send the crew to the front and they can get off there, right onto the lock area. If I get off, I'll nudge the gate then put the boat in idle forwards with rudder full over, to bring the back end in while the front is in the lock mouth. There's no reason why not to do this singlehanded - if you can easily get front-back through the boat, simply leave it in forwards gear on the lock. If not, then do as above taking a centre line with you. If you can't get back on or its not too much bother, pull the boat in manually.

 

If there's someone using the lock already do the same, just as they're finishing up get back onto the boat, forwards steer left, then reverse and the boat will go backwards at an angle (to pass on right).

 

If you're going uphill and want to drop the crew off aim for the towpath side bank but don't reach it, then aim for the lock mouth in such a way as the back end of the boat swings towards the bank, enough for the crew to step off but without touching. If you're on your own, simply drive it slowly to nudge the gate, if the lock is empty the gates will open, if not then leave it there, get on the roof then step off to work the lock. Get back on the boat before the lock is empty then let the boat open the gates.

 

If a boat is in the lock, leave it on idle forwards resting against the gate to open them, then reverse to the right to let them pass. Check everyone knows you'll use the boat to open the gates.

 

Don't bash anything.

[The Bagdad Boatman (waits)]

Joe Briggs an old L&L bargman showed me how to do it. He knocked the engine into neutral and said it takes three times it own length to stop, and came to a stop inches from the landing stage. No rush no bother.

Edited December 31, 2015 by The Bagdad Boatman (waits)

[John V]

I find that on Sabina there are always lots of excited rag and stick wallahs that pop out of the woodwork, eagerly taking lines, running round with fenders, screaming unintelligible comments and generally showing great interest in where I come to rest...........the sight of 70+ tons of aging steelwork approaching does seem to galvanise them into action

Edited December 31, 2015 by John V

[Guest]

I put the engine into neutral a fair distance away from my intended stopping place and let her drift towards the bank at an angle. Just before the nose touches I "paddle" (i.e. move the tiller from centre towards the bank and back to centre repeatedly) so the nose starts to point away from the bank and the stern moves closer. As the stern is about to touch, I engage reverse, which keeps the stern from touching the edge, and the boats stops neatly for me to hop off with the centre line and wrap around a bollard. This is what I do in a perfect world; lots of times it goes wrong and I end up with the nose way out and/or am going too fast and I have to "heave ho" with the line round my waist to bring her to a stop.

 

Does anyone else "paddle"? Is this a bad technique?

[Rob-M]

I go for the approach very slowly technique applying a touch of reverse early in the manoeuvre then swing the tiller over so the bit of forward momentum swings the stern in. Finally I step off with the centre line and strap the boat to a halt. If I approach too quickly and go for a big burst of reverse then I generally end up across the other side of the cut.

[mark99]

Helps to know which way the prop walk operates on your boat (IE know your prop rotation = normally clockwise in forward and then look up prop walk) and also, if you blast reverse, it sets up a "wall of water" about 1-2" high between your boat sides and bank which forces your stern away from the bank just when you need it to come in.

 

Approach slowly and in neutral; I reckon: only reverse when you are just about to have stern touch the bank and step off. This stops the boat and also nudges out the stern away from bank just at the right moment.

 

It's a balance of forces which only works repeatedly if you know the forces; eg say you are coming in too fast, if you need to scrub off speed, put in reverse and blast it at the same time you set the boat into a greater angle that normally required (with due respect to prop walk effect too). The extra reverse (wall/bulge of water) and prop walk should cancel /reduce out the sharper angle of attack by reducing the angle coincident with slowing you down.

 

I can do this most of the time but I only have one boat, so I know it well.

 

Like almost anything manouvre wise in a boat, slow is good.

 

And of course the unknown is the canal bed profile which can make a mockery of any theoretical approach.

 

NB we have a 135 angle to enter our moorings with only a couple of feet to spare across the canal width and the gap is tiny with a silt bank either side for good measure - unless I'm at a standstill before starting, it ends in tears (of laughter from the gongoozlers who appear like magic just before the turn).

Edited December 31, 2015 by mark99

[alan_fincher]

It very much depends on the boat.

 

Nick has mentioned that a shallower draught modern boat my well behave better than something with a deeper draught, and that seems about right to me, particularly if there isn't much space between baseplate and the bottom. (Athough I was surprised when we measured our Evans and Son "Chalice", which he mentions, to find it was about 2' 4", so not massively less than Nick quotes for Telemachus.

 

i was never to bad with "Chalice", but bot the ex working boats cause me far more problems, not the least because they need three feet of water, and there often isn't that much. I must admit that with Sickle I regularly cheat by putting the front end against the back, rather than the back, as it needs less water. I then scoot along the tug deck with a rope and get off there.

 

However, with "Flamingo" I rely largely on prayer, because technique doesn't seem to affect the outcome!

[IanM]

In my experience it always seems that if I think about and plan how to do a manoeuvre before hand it never works as well as if I just get on and do it without thinking

 

 

(most of the time anyway!)

[alan_fincher]

In my experience it always seems that if I think about and plan how to do a manoeuvre before hand it never works as well as if I just get on and do it without thinking

 

 

(most of the time anyway!)

 

The number of people watching is also inversely proportional to the likelihood of it going well!

Ok, as a solo boater I've always had a problem doing this.

 

Get Brinklow to fit you a stern thruster?

[MoominPapa]

This is definitely a heavy/deep boat problem. I'm pretty sure what happens is that reversing sends a wave of water down between the boat and the bank which is what pushes the boat out. With a shallow boat, the water can flow away between the bottom of the cut and the baseplate, but with a deep boat that route isn't available. Also, a big boat probably has a big prop, which transfers to momentum to a larger volume of water, moving more slowly, than an egg-wisk prop, hence there's a larger volume of water between the side and the boat, pushing it out.

 

What I do is to approach bows first, at a small angle and do most of the reversing whilst the stern is still a reasonable way out. I don't attempt to stop

using the engine: once I'm going reasonably slowly I walk up the gunwhale, collecting the centre rope as I pass, and step off the front and strap the boat to a halt. This almost always work fine, but once in a while it takes me too long to get to the front and the wave of water has time to move up the boat and push the bows out beyond leaping distance too. Then I just revert to stick-waggling and swearing.

 

MP.

[Bee]

I think you are sight, reverse pushes water along the side of the boat and it wedges the boat out, coming alongside a solid wall slowly and parallel seems to work , bit like in a tunnel, the boat seems to be attracted to the side. coming alongside a jetty, well take your pick, approach at a bit of an angle and try not to bounce off. If it all goes horribly wrong just do what the captains of big posh cruisers do, yell at the wife for missing the bollard and resign yourself to an expensive divorce when she realises what a pr*** you are.

[mark99]

One thing worth trying - when the boat ends up so far from what was planned (e.g. so far from bank you cannot step off) is to be honest and analyse "what happened to get me in this daft position".

[MtB]

Thanks for all the replies everyone.

 

 

One thing worth trying - when the boat ends up so far from what was planned (e.g. so far from bank you cannot step off) is to be honest and analyse "what happened to get me in this daft position".

 

 

Well yes I've done this naturally and like everyone else, concluded it's the use of astern to stop the boat that does the damage. Alderbaran is 20+ tonnes* so takes a helluvalot of welly in astern to lose even small amounts of way resulting in large volumes of water pushing the boat away from the bank, and a turning moment pushing the bow off that I'm not sure where's coming from.

 

I was hoping someone would say 'oh I do it like this', but sadly not. It seems there is no substitute to approaching a lock landing very slowly, i.e. knocking off the speed before actually getting there!

*Various cranes report Aldebaran as being between 16 and 22 tonnes. Bob Mitchell at Fenny dry dock estimated 25 tonnes when he was dragging the boat into the dock for blacking. Too deep in the water to get over the sill without fouling!

[MtB]

Joe Briggs an old L&L bargman showed me how to do it. He knocked the engine into neutral and said it takes three times it own length to stop, and came to a stop inches from the landing stage. No rush no bother.

 

 

This puzzles me. If I knock Aldebaran into neutral it will be half a mile before coming to a stop.

 

Takes one whole boat length to stop in full astern!

I don't normally use lock landings, too easy to go aground.

 

If I do, I'll usually strap the boat to a stop, so it stays parallel.

 

 

How on earth do you get off the boat to work the locks then?!

 

(Bear in mind I was asking for advice how to do it single handed.)

[RLWP]

 

How on earth do you get off the boat to work the locks then?!

 

(Bear in mind I was asking for advice how to do it single handed.)

 

Shove the bow into the mouth of the lock, put the stern against the bank and drop a stern line over a bollard of course

 

Lock landings are for wimps

 

Richard

[Mac of Cygnet]

 

 

 

How on earth do you get off the boat to work the locks then?!

 

(Bear in mind I was asking for advice how to do it single handed.)

 

Well I don't know how FTS does it, but I nose into the lock entrance and walk along the gunwale with the centre rope until I can get off. Harder with a longer boat, perhaps.

 

Edited to remove double quote.

Edited December 31, 2015 by Mac of Cygnet

[FadeToScarlet]

 

How on earth do you get off the boat to work the locks then?!

 

(Bear in mind I was asking for advice how to do it single handed.)

Sit in the lock mouth, with a line off the fore end or stern end if it's a wide lock.

 

Tat said, I'd probably use them a lot more if single handed and doing wide locks, sitting the stern end in the mud and using a centre line to stop it going anywhere, with a line off the fore end too if going up and needing to empty the lock.

[RLWP]

Harder with a longer boat, perhaps.

 

It's easier with a longer boat. The stern will always reach the bank, even if the lock mouth is narrow

 

Richard

[Tam & Di]

Thanks for all the replies everyone.

 

 

 

 

Well yes I've done this naturally and like everyone else, concluded it's the use of astern to stop the boat that does the damage. Alderbaran is 20+ tonnes* so takes a helluvalot of welly in astern to lose even small amounts of way resulting in large volumes of water pushing the boat away from the bank, and a turning moment pushing the bow off that I'm not sure where's coming from.

 

I was hoping someone would say 'oh I do it like this', but sadly not. It seems there is no substitute to approaching a lock landing very slowly, i.e. knocking off the speed before actually getting there!

 

The problem there is that each boat behaves differently, and each steerer has different skills (or sometimes none at all ). Long thin heavy boats handle much more easily than short light fat ones.

 

I am very usd to heavy craft from freight narrowboats to our 80 ton 24m barge Friesland, mostly with relatively slow revving engines and with quite a pronounced prop bias in reverse. They've all had right-handed blades so the arse end pulls to port, and they have all stopped within their own length going hard astern. This means that on one side I can come in quite quickly at a shallow angle so the fore end is virtually touching at where I want it to be and hold back hard, throwing the stern in and stopping in one fell swoop, allowing me to step off with a line from the backend rail on a narrowboat or the midship bollard on our barge. If I tried that on the other side I'd fetch up across the cut, so it means coming in much more steadily, going briefly into stern gear on my approach to lose pace and back out again before the boat slews, doing that several times to fetch up neatly (usually) where I want to be.

 

None of that works so well if I have to do it against a sloping shallow bank. One possibility then is to get the fore end in with the boat virtually stopped, put the rudder quite hard over and give a brief fierce kick in head gear to drive the stern in so I can step off with the line as before.

 

Tam

 

edit to add: I missed the bit about it being specifically lock landings, but I if you ignore the possibility of coming in against the gates I don't think there'd be any difference.

Edited December 31, 2015 by Tam & Di