Vintage engines: how difficult ARE they to live with?

[Seti-Yeti]

The most "vintage" engine I've owned was a Perkins 4107. Straightforward and reliable. Change oil and filter, pat on rocker cover and away it went.

 

I have always wondered what sort of special guru-like skills are required to run real vintage single and two cylinder (or more) object d'art that grace the trads that chuff once every alternate bridge. The sound is so much better than the dry rasp of modern engines. Even the watery burble of wet exhausts can't compete!

[national velvet]

If you are only interested in the vintage sound of the engine, forget it. Every engine has its own personality and requires care and attention to detail.you need to have a feel for your own engine. Every engine is different they work diffenrntly, they need different attention, but generally they will give good service if they are treated properly. The balls in your court! The older the engine the more love it will require.

[Athy]

I suspect that much depends on the type of engine and the capability of the owner. Some engines, for example, are very difficult to find spares for and so you may have to fabricate bits yourself or get a specialist to do so for you. Others have unusual habits - I would be very hesitant to take on a Bolinder for instance. Others are easy to find genuine factory-fresh spares for and are in any case so reliable that new parts will rarely be needed.

 

I am a strictly non-technical type of person. I have had a Gardner 2LW (built in 1956 to a 1931 design) for nine years. I can say, honestly but with fingers crossed, that it's no more trouble than a modern engine: it just looks better, sounds better and has ample shiny bits for those relaxing end-of-cruising-day polishing sessions (I am not joking here). New spare parts are readily available for it. I am not sure if I've simply been lucky or whether most Gardners are equally well-behaved. The secret, perhaps, is to buy one which has been rebuilt or at least overhauled by a reputable fitter or company.

 

Incidentally, I love your expression "chuff at alternate bridges". My local garageman says that they "beat at every other lamp post" which is much the same idea, except that lack of lamp posts is a feature of many waterways.

[mark99]

I have a Gardner 2 LW and it's needs no special looking after (apart from keeping it looking spanking). It's so reliable and never let me down. Decent noise too.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zagg33RyLec

 

 

If installed correctly.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CDZkvPWjqTI

Edited October 23, 2015 by mark99

[koukouvagia]

I echo Athy's comments on the type of engine and the capability of the owner.

I have had two vintage engines: a semi diesel Seffle and my present Kelvin. The Seffle was very easy to maintain - although I found lighting the blow lamp a bit of a trial! The main problem - and the reason I sold it - was that it was a very smoky engine, no matter how much fettling it received.

On the other hand the Kelvin is a delight. Routine maintenance consists of regular oil changes and lots of polishing. These engines were designed for use in North Sea fishing boats and had to be capable of being looked after by fishermen not engineers. Consequently all that is required is a good set of Whitworth spanners and a simple-to-understand set of instructions.

 

Most jobs are well within the scope of a competent DIY-er but sometimes more specialised help is needed. There are several Kelvin gurus around and spares are usually pretty easy to obtain.

 

I have to say that I've had much more trouble with my 1.8 BMC.

[Seti-Yeti]

That's a smooth running engine there mark99. The chuffing is most pleasant too...

 

I know some engines such as the Lister ST3 are used in hire boats (Middlewich's "Willow" for instance) which I'd hired a couple of times and so must be pretty bullet-proof. I was just wondering if it was universal that they are actually reasonably benign. By benign I mean that assuming you do all that is required in a maintenance regime they will just "run", which is after all, what we demand of them.

 

I'd LOVE to have one but my sort of engineering is quite different to that where new parts are wrought...

 

...on the other hand.........

[The Bagdad Boatman (waits)]

Some trad engines where designed to run 24/7 with minimal maintenance , skilled fitters cost money. Tales told of old listers running pumps on sights given a few gallons of fuel and a top up of oil whenever.

[Athy]

 

On the other hand the Kelvin is a delight.

Possibly the only engine which I would admit looks and sounds better than mine! There's a boat called Equinox which sometimes moors near us, and that Kelvin doesn't just have a beat, it has a whole rhythm section.

[OldGoat]

Some trad engines where designed to run 24/7 with minimal maintenance , skilled fitters cost money. Tales told of old listers running pumps on sights given a few gallons of fuel and a top up of oil whenever.

Yes - but that was when they were NEW (or new to middling age). They well have chuntered on with just being fed and fettled with an oil change - but they needed a visit from 'someone who knows' very occasionally to make sure that 'there's no diesel in the oil' syndrome.

 

Perhaps the more important point is that if the OP is prepared to 'suffer' - mebe - live with an exotic and pleasureable lump in the middle of the boat (adn I don't mean One's Significant Other then a delightful chuffer - chuffer - hic - engine is a joy to own and behold. Otherwise a modern bit of tin - fit and forget , is more practical; but without the cachet.....

 

 

Ooooo lust, lust, lust, a KELVIN (or though possibly connected with a more modern manufactury) is definitely the aparian dingly bits, 'specially if well polished....

Edited October 23, 2015 by OldGoat

[bag 'o' bones]

Assuming were talking about an engine that lacks a 'modern' electric start and assuming the engine is in good mechanical condition then I suppose it all depends on how much a faff it is to set up the alternative starting method. On average the older the engine - the more faff they are to start I would have thought.

 

Older engines require more fettling to keep in good tune - again on average the older they are the more fettling they require although I imagine there are those that buck the trend.

 

Parts can be difficult to get hold of particularly the less common engines and I imagine some parts are non existent, requiring expensive bespoke one off replacements.

 

To run an old engine I reckon it is something you need to have an interest in. If your a more of a 'turn key' sort of boater then steer well clear.

[MtB]

I have a nice collection of vintage engines. They are all as different as, say, vintage cars.

 

Like KK, my Kelvin never misses a beat. All I do is change the oil once in a while. The cone clutch however, slips slightly and needs £a few k spending on getting it re-metalled and reground. On the other hand hanging a weight on the gear wheel seems to get around the problem.

 

The Skandia was trouble free too for several hours. Now it needs the big end bearing re-metalling too. I'm expecting a bill with four figures.

 

And the Gleniffer was brilliantly reliable for about three years. Then it wouldn't start and needs a rebuild and I'm hoping the bill will be only four figures. If it runs towards five I'll scrap it. On the other hand when its all done it will probably see me out with no further expenditure. Unless I forget to top up the oil.

[dave moore]

The J3 in our boat is a delight ( sorry, Kelvin ) and requires oiling round prior to starting, other than that it works uncomplainingly all day for whenever needed. In 15 years, the only issue has been with the injector pump, one of the 3 elements failed and led to a very smoky exhaust. Kelvin guru Dick Goble removed the pump, had it rebuilt and refitted it. Oil changes are straightforward and routine stuff like tappet clearances I can do easily, as has been said they were designed to be cared for by the user rather than a trained mechanic. I wouldn't care for a " bread van " engine, as we call modern units, at all....but I'm on the far right of Ghengis where traditional things are concerned!

 

Dave

[koukouvagia]

Possibly the only engine which I would admit looks and sounds better than mine! There's a boat called Equinox which sometimes moors near us, and that Kelvin doesn't just have a beat, it has a whole rhythm section.

Just for Athy

 

[Seti-Yeti]

Thanks for the collective wisdom and YouTube clips. I suspect The Boss's lip will wibble if I turn up with one, she is not one for oiling and fetlin'... She's more of an MX5 driver than a Bristol if you catch my drift.

 

I'll stow away my tin of Brasso carefully.

[Athy]

Just for Athy

 

Bless you, boy. That sounds like Count Ossie's Rastafarian Drummers in full swing. A shame that (unless it's a trick of the film), the colour is not right - Kelvins look best in royal blue.

 

Bag O'Bones, no, many older engines have electric starters. Mine certainly does.

[BEngo]

It is well known that Kelvins do not like any colour other than green and may sulk worse than a teenager!

 

N

[koukouvagia]

I suppose it all depends on how much a faff it is to set up the alternative starting method.

When persuading OH that investment in a Kelvin would mean a much simpler starting procedure - no more blow lamp, for example, I pointed out that the Kelvin had a push button start. Just like a modern engine.

 

It was pointed out to me that I had to perform over twenty operations before I pressed the start button.

[MtB]

 

Bag O'Bones, no, many older engines have electric starters. Mine certainly does.

 

 

Even so, 'lectric start is for GURLS, innit!

[RLWP]

Even so, 'lectric start is for GURLS, innit!

What a relief! I was trying to work out how to let you know about the starter motor incident.

 

Richard

[MtB]

What a relief! I was trying to work out how to let you know about the starter motor incident.

 

Richard

 

I know Jeniffer will start beautifully by hand when you've finished with her...

 

That starter cost me £350!

[RLWP]

I know Jeniffer will start beautifully by hand when you've finished with her...

 

That starter cost me £350!

£350? You'd be amazed how much the price of scrap has fallen

 

Richard

[Ally]

Don't talk about listers and diesel in the oil in my hearing just now, it's a painful reality, and proving expensive. There are times when I wish I'd found a beta instead of this lister in this boat, and this is one of those times!

[Athy]

 

 

Even so, 'lectric start is for GURLS, innit!

Adopts Kenneth Williams voice: Oooh, isn't he bold?

[madcat]

Vintage engines are a lot less bother than some vintage people .

[MtB]

Vintage engines are a lot less bother than some vintage people .

 

 

Vintage engines are a lot less bother than GURLS, in my experience...