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CART Refusing to licence boats


Dovetail

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Sorry I suspect it's been discussed a thousand times on this site but reading CART Refusing to re licence cc boats they consider have not moved enough over the previous year did they ever clarified what distance they considered far enough as they never made that clear at the time of issuing the notices.

 

I am not personally worried over this right now as I do move around but also know the distance could be altered each year and eventually could be worried.

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CaRT refuse to say how far is enough on the basis that the BW 1995 Act does not stipulate a minimum distance.

They do say how far is not enough, however -

https://canalrivertrust.org.uk/boating/licensing/enforcement

- read the bit that says -

 

Boaters without a Home Mooring: How far is far enough?

Whilst this means that we cannot set a universal minimum distance for compliance, we can advise that it is very unlikely that someone would be able to satisfy us that they have been genuinely cruising if their range of movement is less than 15-20 miles over the period of their licence. In most cases we would expect it to be greater than this.

 

Edited by Allan(nb Albert)
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It's worth bearing in mind that they make a decision wether to issue a licence based on sightings during the first 10 months of the licence period. The way I see it is:

 

If you move every 2 weeks in a mainly progressive manner and cover a range of 20 miles during the first 10 months of the licence period you should be fine. You're then free to 'bridge hop' for the final 2 months, as long as the hopping involves 2 different 'places'.

Edited by Ricco1
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Sorry I suspect it's been discussed a thousand times on this site but reading CART Refusing to re licence cc boats they consider have not moved enough over the previous year did they ever clarified what distance they considered far enough as they never made that clear at the time of issuing the notices.

 

I am not personally worried over this right now as I do move around but also know the distance could be altered each year and eventually could be worried.

 

Keep going! You are only allowed to stop for re-fuelling these days! ;)

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Surely a logical move would be 14 days at A ,14 days at B (different 14 day mooring stretch) ,14 days at C (different 14 day mooring stretch) then back to A to start cycle again this distance x times a year should suit the minimum movement.

Edited by b0atman
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Surely a logical move would be 14 days at A ,14 days at B (different 14 day mooring stretch) ,14 days at C (different 14 day mooring stretch) then back to A to start cycle again this distance x times a year should suit the minimum movement.

 

Not so unless the 'places' were at least 10 miles apart, it's the range that must be 20 miles.

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First let me stress this is a personal view of how I see the moral side of the argument

 

If your cruising pattern is such that you stay within an area that a boat would, if it was only used for days/weekends out throughout the license period then you should have a mooring.

If you cover an area such that it would not be possible to return to a fixed spot, with this or similar pattern of movement then you needn't.

 

I think that is not only a most equitable and sensible means of distinguishing between those who must have a mooring and those who need not, but also an entirely fair and acceptable way to determine whether or not a ''CC'er'' has moved about sufficiently during the Licence period.

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I think that is not only a most equitable and sensible means of distinguishing between those who must have a mooring and those who need not, but also an entirely fair and acceptable way to determine whether or not a ''CC'er'' has moved about sufficiently during the Licence period.

 

Sounds perfectly reasonable to me on both counts.

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I think that is not only a most equitable and sensible means of distinguishing between those who must have a mooring and those who need not, but also an entirely fair and acceptable way to determine whether or not a ''CC'er'' has moved about sufficiently during the Licence period.

 

Blinkin eck I totally agree with Tony. Also a good test of the limit-pushers.

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First let me stress this is a personal view of how I see the moral side of the argument

 

If your cruising pattern is such that you stay within an area that a boat would, if it was only used for days/weekends out throughout the license period then you should have a mooring.

If you cover an area such that it would not be possible to return to a fixed spot, with this or similar pattern of movement then you needn't.

The problem with this test is that the decision to take on a mooring isn't just based on how far you intend to travel. For example, security, shore line electricity, social facilities etc.

 

I don't think it's fair to assume every CC'er who doesn't move that far is somehow cheating everyone else. As I've said before, many CM'ers keep out of our way and still contribute to CRT whilst not wearing out the infrastructure like us naughty 'proper' CC'ers.

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I think that is not only a most equitable and sensible means of distinguishing between those who must have a mooring and those who need not, but also an entirely fair and acceptable way to determine whether or not a ''CC'er'' has moved about sufficiently during the Licence period.

Isn't this what CRT are trying to do by specifying the idea of a range of miles?

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First let me stress this is a personal view of how I see the moral side of the argument

 

If your cruising pattern is such that you stay within an area that a boat would, if it was only used for days/weekends out throughout the license period then you should have a mooring.

If you cover an area such that it would not be possible to return to a fixed spot, with this or similar pattern of movement then you needn't.

On that basis, I needn't have a mooring. I do have one though, because there are times when I want to stay on my mooring for a few months.

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Isn't this what CRT are trying to do by specifying the idea of a range of miles?

 

No, all that they've done is to publish some very unspecific tripe about what may or may not to be acceptable in terms of mileage only.

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I think that is not only a most equitable and sensible means of distinguishing between those who must have a mooring and those who need not, but also an entirely fair and acceptable way to determine whether or not a ''CC'er'' has moved about sufficiently during the Licence period.

 

OK, that's quite a good starting point and a reasonable "rule of Thumb"

 

The devil is, of course, in the detail!

 

If the boundary condition is that your cruising pattern must be such that a return to a fixed spot would be impractical, then the immediate question I would ask is "how many cruising hours makes a return impossible", and I then (in my mind) turn to how that would look in the area that I am moored.

 

Now, I rather like long days boating, so a 10 hour day isn't out of the ordinary for me, and I've done longer. But I do recognise that this isn't what suits others.

 

Equally, some people like a 2 hour day, and that is fair enough in terms of what they do.

 

However, if we are trying to measure the practicality of return to a home mooring, I would suggest that neither extreme is the appropriate measure. I would suggest that we base this on a 7 hour day.

 

Let's also assume a speed of 3 lock-miles per hour.

 

That would give us a cruising range of 21 lock-miles either side of a notional central point in the range, or a total cruising range of 42 lock-miles, lets say 40 lock miles for round numbers.

 

If your cruising range is less than this, it is clearly practical for you to return to a permanent mooring in the centre of that range in a single day.

 

There is also the question of what period this should be measured over.

 

As it is permitted to remain in one place for 14 days, it would (in my view) be unreasonable to look at a single month and say "all your cruising has been in a 40 mile range". However, it would also be unreasonable for a boater to remain in a small range for 11 months and then undertake one long cruise to extend that range,

 

I would suggest that it would be reasonable to expect movement outside the minimum range measured over any 3 consecutive calendar months.

 

So, for a new CCer, they would look at;

 

1-3

2-4

3-5

....

10-12

 

Then when the licence is renewed;

 

11,12,1

12,1,2

1-3

2-4

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The problem with this test is that the decision to take on a mooring isn't just based on how far you intend to travel. For example, security, shore line electricity, social facilities etc.

snip>

 

Surely these are things you look for when you are going to buy or rent a house or flat.......or a mooring

 

Edit for clarity......these things are not required for someone who navigates the system nor is it a requirement for them to stay within a day or two's distance of a single point

Edited by John V
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