Railings for Marple aqueduct - whats next?

[DHutch]

Thank you for bringing it to everyone's attention again. I think this is something that needs to be kept an eye on.

Agree. Thank you.

 

I continue to firmly believe that while the warning signs are both ends should be significantly improved, renewed and prehaps larger, and that some form of non invasive indication along the length would be an option, the fence appears to be poorly thought out and the incorrect solution to the perceived issue.

 

 

Daniel

[furnessvale]

Agree. Thank you.

 

I continue to firmly believe that while the warning signs are both ends should be significantly improved, renewed and prehaps larger, and that some form of non invasive indication along the length would be an option, the fence appears to be poorly thought out and the incorrect solution to the perceived issue.

 

 

Daniel

I have pointed out before, and to CRT, that the fence will have at least two adverse consequences.

 

1. It will encourage offside abseilers by providing them with an anchor point for their ropes.

 

2. It will encourage cross canal jumpers who will now have a fence to stop their forward momentum from propelling them over the edge.

 

George ex nb Alton retired

[Captain Pegg]

I would far sooner have a well designed set of railings in keeping with the towpath side than a plethora of signs or markings on the stonework.

 

There are many heritage structures in the country that have by necessity been modified and updated. What makes such structures noteworthy isn't the fact they were ever built but that they remain relevant to the needs of today's society 200 years after they were built. In many cases the modifications undertaken since construction were done so long ago that nobody even knows they weren't original; and ironically would complain if they were to be changed. In many cases it is the entire structure that isn't the original. There is also plenty of heritage of little architectural and engineering merit that would benefit from being replaced by something modern and better.

 

A working heritage structure is always infinitely better than a disused one and if being relevant to 2017 rather than 1817 is the price to pay then bring it on.

 

JP

[Jerra]

I would far sooner have a well designed set of railings in keeping with the towpath side than a plethora of signs or markings on the stonework.

 

If railings are a must I would prefer that they:

 

Don't permit access from the land at the ends of the viaduct and are beside the canal rather than the edge of the stone work.

 

Having them at the waters edge would hopefully discourage any attempt to jump the canal and not permitting access from the land would help to prevent abseilers easily getting to the "departure point".

[Bugsworth Tippler]

There are two large red signs at both ends of the aqueduct which state the following :

============================

Danger Falls
From Height

Please do not access this area of the Aqueduct, there are unprotected edges posing risk of falling.

Boat operators please keep your crew and pets within the confines of your boat.

============================

 

When I saw these I thought that they were an excellent idea and there would be no need for railings.

Edited January 15, 2017 by Bugsworth Tippler

[DHutch]

Having them at the waters edge would hopefully discourage any attempt to jump the canal and not permitting access from the land would help to prevent abseilers easily getting to the "departure point".

Having them at the waters edge would create a pinch point or trapping hazard with the boat. A worse risk. It would not prevent abseiling, infact it would make it easier as it would retain a clean edge to abseil off.

 

 

Daniel

[Jerra]

Having them at the waters edge would create a pinch point or trapping hazard with the boat. A worse risk. It would not prevent abseiling, infact it would make it easier as it would retain a clean edge to abseil off.

 

 

Daniel

Surely no more of a trapping risk than the side of a tunnel or a bridge? If the fences at the ends were carefully constructed so that access from the land was not possible how are they going to get there to abseil? Highjack a passing narrowboat or I suppose persuade a friend to drop them off. Either way it would make tracing the culprits a lot easier if they had to get there by boat.

 

Railings at the outer edge would be no hindrance to anyone who knows how to abseil so no worse off having them at the waters edge IMO.

[MtB]

Why should people be stopped from abseiling from the aqua duck anyway?

[Jerra]

Why should people be stopped from abseiling from the aqua duck anyway?

I am not sure but personally I would worry about the stress being put on whatever they fastened the ropes to. In this case probably the railings. I suspect from CRT's point of view they would worry about possible come backs if/when there was an accident.

[Allan(nb Albert)]

With C&RT now the subject of an HSE investigation regarding the Pontcysyllte railings which may lead to criminal prosecution, I would agree with Jerra.

[Captain Pegg]

Is abseiling from bridges a real problem or one that we have just invented?

 

Can't say I have ever heard of it happening. It seems a bit odd that a sport that requires meticulous preparation should have participants that attach their ropes of known capacity to an anchorage of untested capability.

 

JP

[Jerra]

Is abseiling from bridges a real problem or one that we have just invented?

 

Can't say I have ever heard of it happening. It seems a bit odd that a sport that requires meticulous preparation should have participants that attach their ropes of known capacity to an anchorage of untested capability.

 

JP

I don't know if it is a problem or not but I wouldn't be surprised if it were popular. Climbing has during my life time moved from rock on mountains to indoor walls. I can therefore imagine people looking for high points to abseil from.

 

Having abseiled many times from pieces of rock of untested capability I suspect railings (particularly newly erected ones) would be seen by many as just fine.

[furnessvale]

Surely no more of a trapping risk than the side of a tunnel or a bridge? If the fences at the ends were carefully constructed so that access from the land was not possible how are they going to get there to abseil? Highjack a passing narrowboat or I suppose persuade a friend to drop them off. Either way it would make tracing the culprits a lot easier if they had to get there by boat.

 

Railings at the outer edge would be no hindrance to anyone who knows how to abseil so no worse off having them at the waters edge IMO.

There appears to be quite a difference in legal eyes between a long standing potential hazard and a newly created one.

 

I was the one who introduced the possibility of abseiling into the discussion. Whilst there isn't a problem at the moment (no anchor points) I feel it needs to be considered, as wild climbing and abseiling on man made structures seems to be a growing trend.

 

George ex nb Alton retired

[Captain Pegg]

There appears to be quite a difference in legal eyes between a long standing potential hazard and a newly created one.

 

George ex nb Alton retired

Rightly so. It isn't a practicable proposition to remove all the inherited hazards on an 18th century infrastructure network but once you have identified those hazards it would be negligible to knowingly create new ones of the same nature where there is an obvious alternative.

 

JP

Edited January 16, 2017 by Captain Pegg

[Machpoint005]

Mainly eighteenth-century, but agreed.

[Captain Pegg]

Mainly eighteenth-century, but agreed.

Have edited it. I confused myself as I wasn't under the illusion that canals are 300+ years old.

[Machpoint005]

No, I realise that -- but I did first check whether Marple Aqueduct had to wait until the 19th century for its opening -- it didn't (1800).

[BilgePump]

A mate of mine and myself were partial to disused viaducts 20 yrs ago and I don't expect today's youth to be any less stupid. Railings are just too tempting as anchor points. At present the aqueduct has zero anchor points unless you used say a 60ft steel tube in the water. Putting up sturdy railings may make one type of infrequent accident less likely but a number of others just waiting to happen. If this is the shape of things to come, every lock, weir etc will need to be fenced off. Water dangerous, height dangerous, not rocket science. The daredvil, suicidal or reckless person may block that out. The rest of us exercise a healthy respect when around either.

[DHutch]

Surely no more of a trapping risk than the side of a tunnel or a bridge?

 

Likely not, but the point is you are then swapping one risk in place of another rather than removing risks.

 

- I expect there are for more incidents of people being trapped between tunnels/bridges/railing than falling off unprotected edges. Could be wrong, but thats me feeling.

With C&RT now the subject of an HSE investigation regarding the Pontcysyllte railings which may lead to criminal prosecution, I would agree with Jerra.

 

Not up to speed with that. Pontcysyllte only has railings on the towpath side, and as I understand the person at the time was on the wrong side of the railings, which also involved some loose stonework?

 

 

Daniel

[ditchcrawler]

There appears to be quite a difference in legal eyes between a long standing potential hazard and a newly created one.

 

I was the one who introduced the possibility of abseiling into the discussion. Whilst there isn't a problem at the moment (no anchor points) I feel it needs to be considered, as wild climbing and abseiling on man made structures seems to be a growing trend.

 

George ex nb Alton retired

This is what they have been getting up to round here

 

http://www.lowestoftjournal.co.uk/news/watch_lowestoft_urban_explorers_banned_from_climbing_all_tall_buildings_in_uk_1_4456885

Edited January 18, 2017 by ditchcrawler

[MtB]

This is what they have been getting up to round here

 

http://www.lowestoftjournal.co.uk/news/watch_lowestoft_urban_explorers_banned_from_climbing_all_tall_buildings_in_uk_1_4456885

 

 

I found the article about the crane that fell off the road rather more intriguing. How on earth did that happen?

 

(Presumably I'll be labelled 'ghoulish' again for enquiring...)

 

 

http://www.lowestoftjournal.co.uk/news/road_closure_in_wangford_after_crane_overturns_1_4853694

[Alan de Enfield]

 

 

I found the article about the crane that fell off the road rather more intriguing. How on earth did that happen?

 

(Presumably I'll be labelled 'ghoulish' again for enquiring...)

 

 

http://www.lowestoftjournal.co.uk/news/road_closure_in_wangford_after_crane_overturns_1_4853694

 

Happens all the time (once or twice a month) on the A15 North of Lincoln.

 

Despite being an "A" road it is almost too narrow for two trucks to pass, one truck 'hits' the soft grass verge, verge collapses, truck rolls over.

 

The A15 now has a 40mph speed limit in that area, which, whilst it doesn't make the road any wider, has reduced the number of incidents.

 

Looking at the verge in the picture - it looks as if it has collapsed, maybe the driver moved over 'a bit' to allow a car to pass, or, maybe he just accidentally 'clipped' the verge.

[ditchcrawler]

 

 

I found the article about the crane that fell off the road rather more intriguing. How on earth did that happen?

 

(Presumably I'll be labelled 'ghoulish' again for enquiring...)

 

 

http://www.lowestoftjournal.co.uk/news/road_closure_in_wangford_after_crane_overturns_1_4853694

I heard it on local radio but no details, he probably swerved to avoid a bunny.

Edit

It was very frosty yesterday morning just like today, the marshes are still white outside ours still

Edited January 19, 2017 by ditchcrawler

[MtB]

 

Happens all the time (once or twice a month) on the A15 North of Lincoln.

 

Despite being an "A" road it is almost too narrow for two trucks to pass, one truck 'hits' the soft grass verge, verge collapses, truck rolls over.

 

The A15 now has a 40mph speed limit in that area, which, whilst it doesn't make the road any wider, has reduced the number of incidents.

 

Looking at the verge in the picture - it looks as if it has collapsed, maybe the driver moved over 'a bit' to allow a car to pass, or, maybe he just accidentally 'clipped' the verge.

 

 

Well yes I understand that can happen but then I'd have expected wheel tracks in the grass verge behind the crane showing it leaving the road.

 

And the depth of the verge collapse underneath the crane wheels looks too shallow to cause the whole crane to topple over. But obviously it did!

Actually there are wheel tracks ahead of the crane, so it looks as though he reversed back onto the verge and it collapsed. Probably to let something coming the other way pass.

[DHutch]

lProbably to let something coming the other way pass.

Like the truck who took the photo...m