Minimum distance? The enforcement officers have it in black and white.

[Paul C]

Splitting it into two strands.....

 

...........I would consider the approach and exit as two places..................Problem is although I consider them two places CRT are the ones who have more power to say so.

 

I don't think either you or CRT can define what a "place" is, any more than anyone else - but obviously a thing which is called a place exists, and there's different places thus there's a boundary between a place and a (approximate, since a 'place' isn't a precise spot position) distance between places. Well established maps may reflect local geography quite well, but equally local knowledge or custom could mean there's places which are important/significant in canal terms, which aren't in more general terms and thus not reflected on, for example, an OS map. So a CRT map is far from the end of the matter, or a complete resolution to that issue. Worth knowing about though.

 

 

The enforcement process is flawed in so many ways. Unless we all have gps trackers there will be mistakes.

 

The logging of data, and the fact that they simply cannot log 24/7/365 is inevitibly going to mean there's inconsistencies in their logging. They should be taking this into account and giving the benefit of the doubt. At the same time, the responsibility to "satisfy the board...." etc lies on the boater's shoulders, so if you can come up with a way of logging your movements and moorings which can be proved better than theirs (which shouldn't be hard...) I'd go with that. By all means GPS track yourself but I don't think its needed and definitely inappropriate for it to be imposed on many/all.

[matty40s]

There's also Cheddington station in between Tring Summit and Leighton Buzzard, moor near Cooks Wharf.

[bigste]

The enforcement volunteers are a new one on me, I met my first one yesterday. He wore a CRT logo'd shirt and formal ID badge stating his name and "Volunteer Moorings Warden."

 

He was checking licences and stay times along the Braunston stretch. He had a list of boats previously sighted there, presumably with the sighting date, and he checked my licence number and asked how much longer I would be staying. I asked to see what he had on his sheet regarding my boat, but he wouldn't show me.

 

He was very pleasant and friendly, but I must admit I didn't know that volunteers were now performing these sorts of tasks. He did suggest that I move up from my current spot to a 14 day mooring, and I pointed out that I was already on a 14 day mooring and was within the signs that say so, which he agreed with. I am a bit worried that, had I not seen him, I may have been registered as being on a 48 hour mooring and ergo, having already overstayed.

If he wanted to know how long you´d be there but wouldn´t show you what he had on you he was obviously loving his job.

I´d have done a Boris on him and told him to ´F--- off and die you f---in jobsworth´ and very loudly at that.

[magnetman]

I'd just call him a pleb that'd sort it out

[bassplayer]

For what it's worth I would have taken his name, asked for some written evidence of his ruling. Then warn him that if there is no law backing his request to move, action would be taken against him for harassment.

[Bee]

$%$%^& Hell. You pay a fortune to have a boat and licence it, moor it, insure it,comply with an ever growing list of requirements and then you're still in fear of breaking some sort of ill defined rules. Its promoted as being some sort of carefree peaceful relaxing blah blah thing to do and we see people on the telly saying how wonderful it is when in reality its just like driving in London, parking restrictions, congestion charges, wardens and everything and you need to prove where you've been and when. Off to France next week, someone from Calais can have my place. grumble grumble.

[matty40s]

I have been fitting a boat out for a customer over the last 2 months, the boat has been moved around regularly, mainly between Stowe Hill, Norton Junction, Whilton and actually in the Workshop for 2 weeks. The boat HAS a home mooring and will be taken there once the works are complete.

 

The local enforcement officer (real one, not a Volenforcy)has been informed several weeks ago what the plans were for this boat, and agreed to what was taking place.

The owner has this week received an automatic letter stating that the boat has been in the area for too long and must be moved.

[churchward]

$%$%^& Hell. You pay a fortune to have a boat and licence it, moor it, insure it,comply with an ever growing list of requirements and then you're still in fear of breaking some sort of ill defined rules. Its promoted as being some sort of carefree peaceful relaxing blah blah thing to do and we see people on the telly saying how wonderful it is when in reality its just like driving in London, parking restrictions, congestion charges, wardens and everything and you need to prove where you've been and when. Off to France next week, someone from Calais can have my place. grumble grumble.

As long as you can get past the burning tyres you should be OK!

[magnetman]

...Someone from Calais can have my place. ....

are the French dock workers looking to relocate to Englandland and buy canal boats

[valrene9600]

There's also Cheddington station in between Tring Summit and Leighton Buzzard, moor near Cooks Wharf.

Or slapton. Just as convenient problem is less service if I remember it,s hourly.

[Sabcat]

I have been fitting a boat out for a customer over the last 2 months, the boat has been moved around regularly, mainly between Stowe Hill, Norton Junction, Whilton and actually in the Workshop for 2 weeks. The boat HAS a home mooring and will be taken there once the works are complete.

 

The local enforcement officer (real one, not a Volenforcy)has been informed several weeks ago what the plans were for this boat, and agreed to what was taking place.

The owner has this week received an automatic letter stating that the boat has been in the area for too long and must be moved.

 

CRT behave as though they own the canal system and can impost whatever regulations they care to. This example is especially ludicrous having told the enforcement officer (completely unnecessarily if the boat's not been in one place for more than 14 days) and still they send a letter claiming he has to move from the area when quite clearly he does not.

[b0atman]

I have been fitting a boat out for a customer over the last 2 months, the boat has been moved around regularly, mainly between Stowe Hill, Norton Junction, Whilton and actually in the Workshop for 2 weeks. The boat HAS a home mooring and will be taken there once the works are complete.

 

The local enforcement officer (real one, not a Volenforcy)has been informed several weeks ago what the plans were for this boat, and agreed to what was taking place.

The owner has this week received an automatic letter stating that the boat has been in the area for too long and must be moved.

This is the typical Left and Right hand syndrome where neither knows what the other is doing

[jenlyn]

Hi all,

 

Just spoke to an enforcement volunteer.

 

We are currently on a 106 mile journey.

 

We are currently in what I call 'lower berkhampstead' and have been here for a week. I need to get to berkhampstead station in two weeks time so in a week I was planning to move to 'upper berkhampstead' for a little bit - which is about a 10-15 minute walk away. Then continue further up the canal in much larger jumps.

 

Ive moored in those two places for two weeks each before with no problems but the enforcement man has a map and says that I can not moor there.

 

Whats all that about? I have no copy of the map and in my opinion if I am doing a 106 mile journey (212 by the time we get back!) and moving every 14 days then I think moving a slightly smaller distance one week is not a big deal.

 

Any thoughts?

 

Thanks

 

Doodlebug

1. The enforcement guy is talking utter boll@cks.

2. Tell him to do one.

[cotswoldsman]

 

It comes down to what a "place" is. Does everyone else refer to "Lower Berkhampstead" and "Upper Berkhampstead"? Are there printed maps with the both of these on? Or is there really just one place, called "Berkhampstead"?

Do you have a link to where place is defined by the name of a town please?

[Paul C]

Do you have a link to where place is defined by the name of a town please?

Do you have a link to where place is defined.......at all.....

[cotswoldsman]

The enforcement volunteers are a new one on me, I met my first one yesterday. He wore a CRT logo'd shirt and formal ID badge stating his name and "Volunteer Moorings Warden."

 

He was checking licences and stay times along the Braunston stretch. He had a list of boats previously sighted there, presumably with the sighting date, and he checked my licence number and asked how much longer I would be staying. I asked to see what he had on his sheet regarding my boat, but he wouldn't show me.

 

He was very pleasant and friendly, but I must admit I didn't know that volunteers were now performing these sorts of tasks. He did suggest that I move up from my current spot to a 14 day mooring, and I pointed out that I was already on a 14 day mooring and was within the signs that say so, which he agreed with. I am a bit worried that, had I not seen him, I may have been registered as being on a 48 hour mooring and ergo, having already overstayed.

I find it all very worrying volunteer enforcement. They can be as friendly as they like not their job to ask how long you plan to stay anywhere. What sort of training do they get I wonder. What sort of person would volunteer for that sort of job even more worrying. I hope I don't meet one as I would find it very difficult to be polite and keep a straight face. They do not need a map just a simple small ruler to measure out 1km that should keep them busy for a while

Do you have a link to where place is defined.......at all.....

My point sorry it went over your head

[scrumpylurcher]

The volunteer boat checkers are just that and are not involved directly with enforcement. The idea seems to be that they cover a fixed area and if volunteers are available it will be checked daily. They will obviously concentrate on the busier areas. The enforcement boat checkers are CRT employees and part of the official enforcement team. Their checks cover the whole system and will be far less frequent.

Edited July 4, 2015 by scrumpylurcher

[alan_fincher]

I think I'd just do what you want to do.

 

If you have been below the "Riser",and now wish to move up to the town, then just do it. As long as neither stay exceeds 14 days, I don't think they have any authority to do much about it.

 

You will be one of a great number all doing something similar, and they ain't going to go after you all.

 

This really is getting daft, isn't it.

 

(Berkhamsted resident, fed up with all this nonsense).

[Sabcat]

Do you have a link to where place is defined.......at all.....

Quite, which makes your first post look like nothing more than a worthless snipe at the op.

[churchward]

I find it all very worrying volunteer enforcement. They can be as friendly as they like not their job to ask how long you plan to stay anywhere. What sort of training do they get I wonder. What sort of person would volunteer for that sort of job even more worrying. I hope I don't meet one as I would find it very difficult to be polite and keep a straight face. They do not need a map just a simple small ruler to measure out 1km that should keep them busy for a while

I am not worried at all who administers the process volunteer or paid individual it is the process or rules CRT wish to deploy should be the concern. Whether a person is paid or not makes little difference if the system is poorly thought out. They could have all the training in the world and know the process front to back but it still won't make it right, again paid employee or volunteer.

 

I really don't see why a volunteer going about the business he or she has been asked to do should warrant an immediate impolite response or derision, aim your anger at CRT not the person on the ground. It would be rather liked screaming obscenities down the phone at a call centre person other than venting your spleen it does little to target the real issue.

[RLWP]

I hope I don't meet one as I would find it very difficult to be polite and keep a straight face.

 

Equally, I'm not sure CRT should be putting volunteers in a position to get abused by boaters (not you John, you'd engage them in debate and talk them to death). Assigning volunteers to be part of policing something so controversial and potentially confrontational seems very ill thought through

 

Richard

[cotswoldsman]

I am not worried at all who administers the process volunteer or paid individual it is the process or rules CRT wish to deploy should be the concern. Whether a person is paid or not makes little difference if the system is poorly thought out. They could have all the training in the world and know the process front to back but it still won't make it right, again paid employee or volunteer.

 

I really don't see why a volunteer going about the business he or she has been asked to do should warrant an immediate impolite response or derision, aim your anger at CRT not the person on the ground. It would be rather liked screaming obscenities down the phone at a call centre person other than venting your spleen it does little to target the real issue.

I.would simply ask him/her for a link

[jenlyn]

Quite, which makes your first post look like nothing more than a worthless snipe at the op.

Greenie, and I agree.

[DeanS]

My boat was tagged at Littleborough yesterday. I've just filled up with water. There's no water point anywhere between my mooring in Manchester, and the summit. I can't go over the summit as it's too far to get back to work, and no winding points. I don't want to return to my marina for a good while yet. So I guess I'll be working out a precision plan based on 1km increments, so I keep moving.....up to Walsden.....14days...then all the way back to SmithyBridge....a few miles...and wait 14days...then travel back to Littleborough....for 14days....and then to Walsden for 14days...and then ALLLLL the way back to SmithyBridge for 14 days....and so on...until I decide I'll go back to my marina...

 

I have to do this, to keep the boat topped up with water.....at least every 2 weeks....(a mean feat on it's own...I think I can probably make it to about 9days)

 

Anyone see a problem with this? If so, I don't care...I'm not going back to my marina till after the school holidays.....

 

at the worst..if I get an automated letter......can I fill up at Littleborough...high tail it down to the Rose of Lancaster...have an ice cream....sit pretty for a few days till my waters running low...and then high tail it back up to Littleborough to fill up again...

 

This is all so confusing ;-)

 

;-)

 

 

eta....forgot to mention that the water was very low when I was coming up so going down to the Rose of Lancaster is a last resort for sure...although the ice cream was lovely.

Edited July 4, 2015 by DeanS

[jenlyn]

Its all utterly ridiculous, and more importantly, selective.

There are two boats that have hovered around berkhampstead since last September, yet neither have had any issues.

The op is being treated as a "soft target", looks good on the sheets, because the enforcement guy knows very well that the boat will leave the area in good time.

The whole thing is becoming a complete joke, and before long, home moorers will be getting the same treatment.