Cyclist injures pedestrian

[zenataomm]

Putting cyclists on the towpath because it's safer than being on the road is not a solution to that issue.

They then become a problem for all other towpath users.

You do not resolve one problem by allowing three others to replace the one.

First deal with the original issue i.e. how and why cyclists feel the roads are dangerous for them.  You don't resolve an issue by ignoring what is behind it and then creating more problems in exchange.

[Tigerr]

It would be interesting to have an analysis of actual Vs perceived risk. Obviously people on here perceive cyclists as a risk, but I would think that the real risks lie elsewhere. By far the greatest risk on the towpath is certainly pedestrians, drunk, high, selling drugs or soliciting, or actively looking at nicking stuff or just looking for violence. This group includes fellow boaters moored next to one, and as demonstrated upthread, oneself 'losing it' from time to time.  However this group is not recognised as a group, so people's brains don't see the risk. Instead cyclists, identifiable by conducting a non-shared activity and possibly dressed differently, and perhaps enjoying healthy well being denied oneself, are seen as an 'out' group and the first response of the primitive part of brain is to search for danger in such a group, or interepret their activity as a danger that should be stopped. And ideally punished.  Once the idea is there people then search for reinforcement of that belief, and interpret every cyclist passed as a near miss, in which they narrowly escaped being 'mown down' by a member of 'the lycra brigade'. The language used reveals the demons in the head of the speaker. 

It is a bit like all those people constantly making cups of tea as boats 'speed' past. I suspect it may have something to do with too much time alone in a small space, with one's own thoughts. 

[zenataomm]

10 minutes ago, Tigerr said:

It would be interesting to have an analysis of actual Vs perceived risk. Obviously people on here perceive cyclists as a risk, but I would think that the real risks lie elsewhere. By far the greatest risk on the towpath is certainly pedestrians, drunk, high, selling drugs or soliciting, or actively looking at nicking stuff or just looking for violence. .........................

I disagree, you don't defend a problem by turning out your handbag and adding everything inside it to the mix regardless of irrelevance.

When I have a problem with drunks, druggies, thieves, whores and those wanting a fight I shall address those issues.  I don't anticipate problems with pedestrians as they don't travel faster than jogging speed nor do they wield a metal undercarriage capable of putting me in hospital.

I for one don't give a jot for the material used in their clothes. I do however object to the demons in the head of someone who brings a vehicle onto a footpath which has been used for many years as a sanctuary of safety by people young and old. 

 

[Drayke]

On 2015-5-29 at 16:15, Delta9 said:

I can think of several possible scenarios where that would be a reasonable thing to say. The horn is there to alert people to your presence (as is the cycle bell). If you are passing someone and you are not sure they have seen you you might beep/ring to alert them to your presence. If that person then ignores your warning and turns into your path you might not be able to avoid them.

How can you ignore something you did not  hear?

[Señor Chris]

On 27/05/2017 at 19:14, Richard10002 said:

I walk on the pavement by the road with no fear whatsoever.

You're not aware of the 3000+ pedestrians killed or seriously injured each year then.

[Señor Chris]

10 hours ago, zenataomm said:

I do however object to the demons in the head of someone who brings a vehicle onto a footpath which has been used for many years as a sanctuary of safety by people young and old. 

 

Towpaths are not sanctuaries - they were built for transport. Just like the roads in fact which also used to be safe places for young and old before those naughty demons started driving round at speed in half a ton of steel.
 

[Peter-Bullfinch]

In rural and semi rural areas there are many pavements which rarely have pedestrians which could easily become shared or dual use. If they were swept cyclists would be encouraged to use them thus taking them away from the traffic. I regularly cycle in the countryside and generally feel most motorists are considerate when passing me.

In towns I try hard to use designated cycle routes. In Denmark and The Netherlands many town roads are one way for motorists leaving the other side for bicycles travelling both ways. 

[Murflynn]

32 minutes ago, Peter-Bullfinch said:

In towns I try hard to use designated cycle routes. In Denmark and The Netherlands many town roads are one way for motorists leaving the other side for bicycles travelling both ways. 

Good point.  Where my daughter used to live in Kensal Green the Victorian streets have been converted into a complex of one way streets and some through roads have been blocked to make them cul de sacs.  Result - no-one is in a hurry to get somewhere, all the motor vehicles are going in one direction, none of this dodging into a gap in a line of parked cars to allow a vehicle travelling in the opposite direction to pass, no-one cutting through the residential area to avoid main roads and traffic lights.  The whole area became a serene and friendly neighbourhood.  

I would support making ALL urban and suburban roads one way wherever feasible.  It may put an extra 500 yards onto a journey from home, but the roads will be quieter, more pedestrian friendly. 

[system 4-50]

1 hour ago, Murflynn said:

Good point.  Where my daughter used to live in Kensal Green the Victorian streets have been converted into a complex of one way streets and some through roads have been blocked to make them cul de sacs.  Result - no-one is in a hurry to get somewhere, all the motor vehicles are going in one direction, none of this dodging into a gap in a line of parked cars to allow a vehicle travelling in the opposite direction to pass, no-one cutting through the residential area to avoid main roads and traffic lights.  The whole area became a serene and friendly neighbourhood.  

I would support making ALL urban and suburban roads one way wherever feasible.  It may put an extra 500 yards onto a journey from home, but the roads will be quieter, more pedestrian friendly. 

Unfortunately the powers-that-be seem to regard two-way traffic as a cheap way of achieving speed reductions.

[Richard10002]

9 hours ago, Señor Chris said:

You're not aware of the 3000+ pedestrians killed or seriously injured each year then.

Are they killed by cars deliberately driving on/mounting the pavement?

My experience is of the Bridgewater Canal where the speed limit is 4mph, cyclists are supposed to give way to all other users, and where many ride at speeds well in excess of this. There is no enforcement, and no calming, and I wonder if many of them are even aware of the danger they cause, or the so called rules.

 

[Tigerr]

I think you will find the 4 mph speed limit applies to boats, in the canal.  Crt do not specify speed limits for cycles on shared use pathways, preferring to suggest common sense prevail. One person's common sense is of course another's dangerous recklessness. 

[Tony Brooks]

49 minutes ago, Tigerr said:

I think you will find the 4 mph speed limit applies to boats, in the canal.  Crt do not specify speed limits for cycles on shared use pathways, preferring to suggest common sense prevail. One person's common sense is of course another's dangerous recklessness. 

and therein is the problem. We seem to get a steady trickle of reports of cyclists hitting and injuring others yet neither CaRT, Sustran (where they have designated ow paths cycle routes), or local authorities (where they have paid to "upgrade" towpaths) appear to be taking effective steps to protect walkers and boaters from the idiots that they now must know ride in a totally unacceptable manner.

I have been hit by cyclists on the K&A towpath and when I told an idiot that he shoudl slow down because it is a mixed use path he told me I was wrong it was a cycle way. In a way he is correct, it is a designated cycle way but the people who designated it do not warden it or sign it so cyclists know what is expected of them.

Education has been shown not to work, if accidents causing injury happened at work the HSE would be all over the company concerned yet still no effective measures are put in place. The legislation CaRT works under needs changing as does legislation relating to cycling. I would suggest all cyclists over (say) 13 be required to be licensed and insured with the license plate displayed on the cycle. That way the idiots could be identified.

I also do not understand why the website that aids & abets and encourages dangerous riding on towpaths has not been shut down or been forced to identify their clients so they can be dealt with.

[Tigerr]

Good idea.

There should be some data available on hospital A&E admissions from being hit by cyclists, given how much this is going on - you having been hit more than once on the K&A for instance. There must be hundreds, thousands of people being mown down each year. Plus there must be cyclists going into the cut, and getting injured themselves in these incidents. There will be ambulance callouts etc. 

This would help to understand the scale of this menace, and help the authorities establish what the level of licence and 3rd party insurance should be. Some sort of ratio of numbers of cycles and pedestrian casualties...

Edited May 29, 2017 by Tigerr

[zenataomm]

12 hours ago, Señor Chris said:

Towpaths are not sanctuaries - they were built for transport. Just like the roads in fact which also used to be safe places for young and old before those naughty demons started driving round at speed in half a ton of steel.
 

I did not say they were sanctuaries, however as you have raised the subject, what is wrong with them being such?

[chubby]

I had a cyclist come off his bike and he hit my boat with an almighty whack so he must've been doing a fair speed . I'd just started a nice cup of tea and though i heard him outside groaning in pain next to my boat i thought to myself " Fuck him " . 

I swear to God if he d gone in the cut id have left him to drown . It was dark and no one else would've seen him .Not BECAUSE he is a cyclist ( i too am a cyclist) but because he was clearly an inconsiderate wanker with no regard for anyone elses safety or property ( peoples boats moored ) . 

After about 5 mins of groaning & wincing he got up and i heard him brushing off the dirt & gravel and the clip clop of his cycling shoes as he walked off - maybe he d damaged his bike . Who knows , who cares ? 

Nice cuppa it was - i wasnt gonna let it go cold to help him . 

 

[Tigerr]

Did he hit one of your pins, or just take a fall? A branch or a root perhaps? Hard to tell I guess from inside the boat and not asking.

From your post though, it seems you couldn't see him, so I guess you had to imagine he was speeding in the dark. Credit to you for being able to gauge his speed entirely by the sound of his body and bike impacting things, from your position inside the boat, kettle in hand.  That  must take a fair bit of experience - which as a fellow cyclist of course you have. 

Falling against a boat is going to make a fair bit of noise I should think, and it certainly is inconsiderate to fall against a boat with no regard. Congratulations for leaving him on the ground in pain. For about 5 minutes. That must have taken some resolve, not to give in to your better instincts and offer to help an injured person. It can't have been easy listening to all that groaning for 5 minutes, and imagining someone with perhaps broken bones lying there while you had to drink your tea. Did the groaning interfere with the taste - or did it make it better for you?

Your post does paint a picture of one inconsiderate wanker that night...

Edited May 29, 2017 by Tigerr

[chubby]

i couldnt care less . The guy was going too fast . He hit my boat . It hurt him . Serves him right because if you dont go so fast you remain in control and consequently you dont get hurt do you . He might not have hit my boat , instead he might have hit someone else which wouldve hurt the pedestrian much more . So im afraid i had no sympathy for them . It was thier own fault . I couldn't be bothered to help such a person. 

[Jerra]

1 hour ago, chubby said:

The guy was going too fast . He hit my boat . It hurt him .  Serves him right because if you dont go so fast you remain in control and consequently you dont get hurt do you .

I don't think it i9s as simple as that.  I broke my wrist as a kid doing about a mile an hour.  It certainly wasn't too fast but it still hurt.

[chubby]

But he was going too fast . I heard the bike sliding across the gravel as the brakes were applied followed by the thud as he hit the cabin sides . Im not usually indifferent to other people in pain but this guy I didn't feel like helping as  

he didn't appear to have given any consideration to anyones wellbeing. The towpath by my boat is not smooth like a city road it is potholed and broken up and so he was being irresponsible in my opinion. If youre uncertain then slow down . I cycle several times a week and the amount of dangerous, selfish or just plain stupid behaviour i see staggers me .

Anyway , perhaps this guy learnt the hard way to slow down  - it could just as easily have been a pedestrian or a pet dog instead . 

[Sir Nibble]

On 30 May 2017 at 05:09, chubby said:

But he was going too fast . I heard the bike sliding across the gravel as the brakes were applied followed by the thud as he hit the cabin sides . Im not usually indifferent to other people in pain but this guy I didn't feel like helping as

he didn't appear to have given any consideration to anyones wellbeing. The towpath by my boat is not smooth like a city road it is potholed and broken up and so he was being irresponsible in my opinion. If youre uncertain then slow down . I cycle several times a week and the amount of dangerous, selfish or just plain stupid behaviour i see staggers me .

Anyway , perhaps this guy learnt the hard way to slow down  - it could just as easily have been a pedestrian or a pet dog instead .

You did help him. If your boat hadn't been there he'd have wound up in the cut with his bike.

[cuthound]

The bit I don't get about the smallish percentage of cyclists who race along towpaths is their lack of empathy with pedestrians.

On the road the cyclists moan bitterly about how vulnerable they feel when bullied by faster traffic, then proceed to do exactly the same to the poor pedestrians when riding are on the towpath.

[cuthound]

Numpty edit, managed to select quote instead of edit doh...

Oh, there is no edit button. 

Edited June 1, 2017 by cuthound

[MtB]

1 hour ago, cuthound said:

The bit I don't get about the smallish percentage of cyclists who race along towpaths is their lack of empathy with pedestrians.

On the road the cyclists moan bitterly about how vulnerable they feel when bullied by faster traffic, then proceed to do exactly the same to the poor pedestrians when riding are on the towpath.

 

The moaners about having to dice with cars and lorries might be different cyclists from the ones who race on the towpath...

 

[cuthound]

1 hour ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

The moaners about having to dice with cars and lorries might be different cyclists from the ones who race on the towpath...

 

But there again, they may not be 

[Wanderer Vagabond]

On 29/05/2017 at 14:56, chubby said:

I had a cyclist come off his bike and he hit my boat with an almighty whack so he must've been doing a fair speed . I'd just started a nice cup of tea and though i heard him outside groaning in pain next to my boat i thought to myself " Fuck him " . 

I swear to God if he d gone in the cut id have left him to drown . It was dark and no one else would've seen him .Not BECAUSE he is a cyclist ( i too am a cyclist) but because he was clearly an inconsiderate wanker with no regard for anyone elses safety or property ( peoples boats moored ) . 

After about 5 mins of groaning & wincing he got up and i heard him brushing off the dirt & gravel and the clip clop of his cycling shoes as he walked off - maybe he d damaged his bike . Who knows , who cares ? 

Nice cuppa it was - i wasnt gonna let it go cold to help him . 

 

To paint a marginally different scenario, I was moored at the top of Foxton Flight a short distance from Gumley Road Bridge lying in bed reading at about 12.30am. I heard the sound of a car approaching with the engine revving at high speed followed by the screech of tyres, a loud thump, the sound of breaking glass then silence. Like you my view was that the idiot was clearly going too fast for the narrow lane, should I have turned off the light and gone to sleep thinking, like you, "F*ck him"? and if not, why not?