Cyclist injures pedestrian

[Locksprite]

The law-abiding cyclist, who adheres to the rules of which Iam one, Pefer to use the road as it is safer and quicker . I have clocked up over 200000 miles in forty years and yet to be hit by any motor vehical while on the road. As for cycle paths and shared pavements being safer that is total bull. Some years ago the Transport Research Laboratory carried out a detail study of the Milton Keynes redways which uncovered a number of cyclists deaths and many injurys which went unrecord under stats 19. Most people perceive motor traffic to be the main danger to cyclists. Cycle paths such as the Redways, which keep cyclists away from motor vehicles, are therefore thought de-facto to be the safest routes for cyclists to use. In Milton Keynes considerable evidence has accumulated to challenge this view.

 

From John Franklin’s article in Traffic Control & Research

 

The most frequently cited data on traffic accidents is that gathered by the Police, using Stats 19 forms, and collated by the Highway Authority.

 

It is known that many accidents involving cyclists are not reported to the Police, but this is especially the case for accidents that occur on cycle paths and shared pavements where fewer than 3 per cent of accidents are believed to be reported . In particular, accidents that do not involve a motor vehicle are rarely recorded even when serious.

 

In Milton Keynes this situation has been aggravated by a frequent unwillingness on the part of the Police to accept accident reports from cyclists, especially when off-road. One fatality to a cyclist was not recorded as a cycling accident.

 

Notwithstanding these shortcomings, the Stats 19 statistics have recorded a considerable number of Redway injuries over the years.

 

From 1987 to 1998 there were six fatalities to cyclists using Redways. Another cyclist was killed riding along a footway, having used this in preference to a low-trafficked road after leaving a Redway. There was also one death to a pedestrian using a Redway to cross a local road. By comparison, there was only one road cyclist fatality in the same area and period - a young girl who crossed a grid road at night out of fear of using a dark Redway.

 

Five of the cyclist fatalities was as a result of a collision with a motor vehicle. In the other two fatalities, no other vehicle was involved. In one case youths had placed a tree across a path at night, and in the other the cause is unclear, but drink was a factor.

 

Although the raw Stats 19 statistics take no account of the relative mileage cycled on the three types of highway, it is probable that this is more than outweighed by the considerable underreporting of Redway accidents.

 

Poor visibility (particularly at junctions) is the biggest single cause of accidents, but other common causes include sharp bends, steep gradients, bollards, slippery bridges, loose gravel and mud. In short, features which are not compatible with the inherent limitations of a bicycle. The paths are often not suitable for typical cycling speeds. Some very serious injuries on Redways have been as a result of head-on crashes between cyclists, collisions with dogs, and eye injuries from intruding vegetation, all of which are rarely encountered on roads.

 

Todays pavement rider and Sustrans supporter is tomorrows dangerous driver as pavement riders don't gain the roadcraft skills.

I disagree. High quality cycling facilities of the best European kind result in mass transport by bicycle. Inevitably there will be conflicts, as with any system moving hundreds of thousands of people each day, that doesn't mean they are dangerous per journey made or the resulting injuries are severe. The UK does not have such facilities and planners have no intention of implementing them, which leaves cyclists exposed to motor vehicle traffic. This may not be a problem on country lanes, but any cyclist using a typical British 1960s ring road or suburban dual carriageway quickly understands what it means to be designed out of the picture.

 

A fit, road savvy rider may survive in such conditions and take regular punishment passes by frustrated car drivers in their stride, but it won't encourage the masses who used to cycle for transport to take bicycles seriously as a means of getting about. The current options are to ride on the pavement in the most dangerous places (illegal, dangerous, but frequently the choice of those with no other means of transport), adopt a combative approach to cycling in traffic (great if you're fit and reasonably aggressive, useless if you're a pootler, especially on roundabouts), stick to lanes (fine if you're exclusively a leisure cyclist), or put up with half baked UK cycling facilities. The majority will see this is no choice at all and stay in their cars.

[MissMax]

Isn't this all of this just another way of discriminating. It's not like all cyclist have one single mindset, why aren't drivers or pedestrians classed the same way?

You have speeding trucks, taxis, buses, etc which flout the highway code but not all of them do yet they are not being tarred with the same brush.

 

Cars do injure pedestrians and they also kill pedestrians on and off the road, you could be by a bus stop, walking along the pavement or crossing the road and be killed or injured by a car,

and yes cars, buses, trucks do hit and run.

 

It would make more sense to figure a way where everyone is accountable for their actions instead of pointing away from the problem

[Locksprite]

Isn't this all of this just another way of discriminating. It's not like all cyclist have one single mindset, why aren't drivers or pedestrians classed the same way?

You have speeding trucks, taxis, buses, etc which flout the highway code but not all of them do yet they are not being tarred with the same brush.

 

Cars do injure pedestrians and they also kill pedestrians on and off the road, you could be by a bus stop, walking along the pavement or crossing the road and be killed or injured by a car,

and yes cars, buses, trucks do hit and run.

 

It would make more sense to figure a way where everyone is accountable for their actions instead of pointing away from the problem

 

Based on almost 50 years of cycling on UK and European roads, I think there's a substantial minority of drivers who see cyclists as an easy target for whatever crap is going on in their own lives. They justify it in all kinds of ways, but it's basically bullying of people they see as even more disempowered than themselves.

 

Over the years I've seen cyclists hated because they're poor, wealthy, slow, quick, badly dressed, sportingly attired, old, young, hard to see and lit up like a Christmas tree. In the end one has to conclude that the problem isn't with the cyclist, but in the driver's head.

[Guest]

 

Based on almost 50 years of cycling on UK and European roads, I think there's a substantial minority of drivers who see cyclists as an easy target for whatever crap is going on in their own lives. They justify it in all kinds of ways, but it's basically bullying of people they see as even more disempowered than themselves.

 

Over the years I've seen cyclists hated because they're poor, wealthy, slow, quick, badly dressed, sportingly attired, old, young, hard to see and lit up like a Christmas tree. In the end one has to conclude that the problem isn't with the cyclist, but in the driver's head.

I am a car driver, cyclist, walker and boat owner (often cycle and walk on the towpaths) so have no axe to grind. I do see car driver mentality coming onto the cut these days though, and that is a shame. I also know that I will get mowed down by a cyclist one day when walking, because I can't hear them coming up behind me. The majority do hang back until I realise they are there, but as usual we tend to remember the knob head brigade who charge through regardless.

[Locksprite]

I am a car driver, cyclist, walker and boat owner (often cycle and walk on the towpaths) so have no axe to grind. I do see car driver mentality coming onto the cut these days though, and that is a shame. I also know that I will get mowed down by a cyclist one day when walking, because I can't hear them coming up behind me. The majority do hang back until I realise they are there, but as usual we tend to remember the knob head brigade who charge through regardless.

Not only the cut, but on to the streets and pavements. As cycling has become more popular, it has increased the number of entitled individuals on bikes. The kind of knob head who would have blared his horn at someone on a crossing, now rides like he owns the road, and aspirational types who imposed their will through a high powered German saloon, now ride carbon fibre bikes aggressively. It's the same fundamental lack of manners, meeting the British desire to exert their status through transport.

 

The problem isn't cycles and cycling, it's gits getting their jollies at everyone else's expense.

[Guest]

Not only the cut, but on to the streets and pavements. As cycling has become more popular, it has increased the number of entitled individuals on bikes. The kind of knob head who would have blared his horn at someone on a crossing, now rides like he owns the road, and aspirational types who imposed their will through a high powered German saloon, now ride carbon fibre bikes aggressively. It's the same fundamental lack of manners, meeting the British desire to exert their status through transport.

 

The problem isn't cycles and cycling, it's gits getting their jollies at everyone else's expense.

Spot on.

[cuthound]

Not only the cut, but on to the streets and pavements. As cycling has become more popular, it has increased the number of entitled individuals on bikes. The kind of knob head who would have blared his horn at someone on a crossing, now rides like he owns the road, and aspirational types who imposed their will through a high powered German saloon, now ride carbon fibre bikes aggressively. It's the same fundamental lack of manners, meeting the British desire to exert their status through transport.

 

The problem isn't cycles and cycling, it's gits getting their jollies at everyone else's expense.

Yes, for a short while I worked near The Angel tube station in London, and had to cross a traffic light controlled junction to get to the office. I would say 75% of cyclists ignored, the red lights, particularly when on the pedestrian crossing phase.

 

It made me laugh given that they were often same people who complain about aggressive car drivers.

 

Edited to remove a spurious worm.

Edited July 16, 2016 by cuthound

[Locksprite]

There's still a pecking order based on the British class system. In the 70s when hardly anyone rode a bike I'd get yelled at for being riff raff, today your man in lycra is probably the local GP and has a Porsche Cayenne, but he's still fair game for insults. Until there are proper European style facilities in this country and riding a bike is something everyone does, cycling will always be seen as a bit suspect and cyclists a legitimate target.

[Murflynn]

The most distinctive pecking order I have come across was in New Delhi.

 

There is a caste system, with the following ascending categories:

pedestrian

cyclist

motor cyclist

tuk-tuk

car

truck

bus

cow.

 

It is quite normal to make a left turn into a side street or even a private drive, cutting up a cyclist or pedestrian in the process, without any consideration of their safety.

[lydfordcastle]

Just spent a week on a hire boat on the L&L between East Marton and Shipley. Lovely countryside, great pubs serving superb beer and food but we certainly won't be returning due to the high levels of stress and near damage resulting from encounters with racing cyclists. I have noted that in the past BW and C&RT have stated that they would like to solve any ineraction problems by education rather than enforcement. Well, whilst I applaud their intent, their efforts fall far short of impressive. Lots of signs along the towpath stating that pedestrians have priority and that considerate cycling is allowed, but as the signs are placed well above the eye-line of any cyclist, there won't be much educating done. I could count the considerate cyclists we met during the week on one hand. Unfortunately the inconsiderate yobs who frequent the stretch of towpath around Riddlesden were too numerous to quantify. So cyclists, as far as I'm concerned, until the powers that be exercise as such and introduce speed limits, registration and third party insurance for cyclists who wish to mingle with pedestrians, then you can have the damn towpaths which have been converted into Sustrans routes ; I don't want them any more.

[Daz555]

Just got back from 2 weeks doing the Avon Ring - fabulous time all round. I took bikes for me and the kids and we really enjoyed riding the towpaths either at the end of the days cruising or in some cases alongside - getting ahead of the boat and waiting for it to catch up at a pub, lock or junction etc.

 

I encountered many cyclists and walkers and of course most were perfectly well behaved. A couple of speeding cyclists got an earful from me after whizzing past my mother-in-law who has mobility issues but I decided it best not to say anything to the 4 drunk lads of Eastern European origin who were blocking the towpath somewhere near Stratford and were almost unable to walk. I also encountered a couple of grumpy walkers who refused to step to one side to let my 6 yr old daughter cycle past them safely on a narrow section.

 

But hey-ho - nothing really worth worrying about.

Edited August 10, 2016 by Daz555

[Ryna]

"Cyclist loses 5 teeth after meeting with pensioner's two strapping sons".

 

Sorry, mustn't think norty thoughts.

LOL, but seriously I feel bad for them both

[zenataomm]

There's too much blame by association in this thread.

 

* Aggressive vehicles driving on the road with no consideration for cyclists is one problem.

* Highway code breaking cyclists riding on the pavement and/or through red lights is another different problem.

* Behaviour of some cyclists on canal tow paths is yet another issue, totally removed from the two above.

 

Each of those concerns (and probably many more) can not be linked.

For example I've read on here that cyclists need to be accepted onto tow paths because it's safer for them than on the road.

 

That is rubbish, the original problem of vehicle drivers endangering cyclists is what needs addressing, it does not entitle them to move their road traversing style onto what is basically a footpath already used by pedestrians, elderly, children and animals without adapting to the safety needs of those already there.

[KevMc]

If the Royal Parks see fit to install speed bumps for cyclists perhaps CRT could follow suit

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-39217465

[mrsmelly]

37 minutes ago, KevMc said:

If the Royal Parks see fit to install speed bumps for cyclists perhaps CRT could follow suit

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-39217465

It will take many years but eventualy attitudes will change and the sensible ways of yesteryear will return and cycles will be made to use the road again where all vehicles should be. It was always illegal to cycle on a footpath for instance until some numpty councils introduced white paint onto footpaths and painted a white line with cycles one side and pedestrians the other side and that simply doesnt work. I have had to adopt a stance whilst sat at the side of my boat at the side of the towpath of recent to safeguard myself, wife and dog during summer evenings. Idiots tear down the tow PATH and dont give a sh one t about anyone or anything so I know place articles in their path and wait till they have all but stopped and move them to allow them passage this is after an incident last year when I " lost it " with one moron and I am getting too old for that mularky now adays. Cycles are vehicles and should be used as such.

[pete.i]

They should also be made to have compulsory insurance and be banned from riding in large groups, three or four or more abreast, down extremely busy roads. They should also be banned, with the threat of extremely heavy fines or imprisonment, from riding on pavements. Of course none of this will happen because a huge number of our law makers ride bicycles.

[Tigerr]

Have you actually seen cyclists riding four abreast on the road? I would be interested to know where this goes on.

I know it is theoretically possible but in 40 years club cycling the only time I have ever seen that was in a cycle race, or a closed roads event. Riding two abreast as recommended by the highway code for safety and efficient traffic flow is of course common sense. It does force drivers to manage their own vehicles safely which frequently is resented, and then they yell abuse, hoot and rev their engines like toad.

Sometimes they get all enraged and purple because they can't go as fast as they want and knock some s cyclists down. Poop poop! 

[MtB]

On 27/05/2017 at 07:07, Tigerr said:

Have you actually seen cyclists riding four abreast on the road? I would be interested to know where this goes on.

I know it is theoretically possible but in 40 years club cycling the only time I have ever seen that was in a cycle race, or a closed roads event. Riding two abreast as recommended by the highway code for safety and efficient traffic flow is of course common sense. It does force drivers to manage their own vehicles safely which frequently is resented, and then they yell abuse, hoot and rev their engines like toad.

Sometimes they get all enraged and purple because they can't go as fast as they want and knock some s cyclists down. Poop poop! 

 

Try driving along the Thames Embankment, Westminster to Fulham approx, at 5pm. There are far more cycles than cars, and most of them ridden at breakneck speed by 20 and 30-something fit male lunatics. So many they form large clusters which split and overtake you on both sides as you approach one of the many junctions then all swerve in in front of you to occupy the safe braking distance you were maintaining between you and the vehicle in front.

[Jerra]

2 hours ago, Tigerr said:

Have you actually seen cyclists riding four abreast on the road? I would be interested to know where this goes on.

Our village is on the route of the C2C (or should I say one of the many routes) and it is not uncommon to come across groups of cyclists completely filling both sides of the admittedly narrow roads.

[furnessvale]

4 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Try driving along the Thames Embankment, Westminster to Fulham approx, at 5pm. There are far more cycles than cars, and most of them ridden at breakneck speed by 20 and 30-something fit male lunatics. So many they form large clusters which split and overtake you on both sides as you approach one of the many junctions then all swerve in in front of you to occupy the safe braking distance you were maintaining between you and the vehicle in front.

Thankfully, I have a dashcam to record such events should a cyclist decide to commit suicide under my wheels.

George ex nb Alton retired

[Richard10002]

When driving, I slow down behind cyclists until I can pass with a clearance of 1.5m, ((estimated obviously). It truly p 1 sses me off when the same cyclist undertakes me with inches to spare, or when any cyclist undertakes with inches to spare!

It happens too often for it to be a small minority.

Cyclists on the Bridgewater towpath are a death waiting to happen

[Señor Chris]

1 hour ago, Richard10002 said:

Cyclists on the Bridgewater towpath are a death waiting to happen

Safer than being on the road though.

[Richard10002]

23 minutes ago, Señor Chris said:

Safer than being on the road though.

I mean the cyclists are the danger, and the pedestrian, or boater, or dog, or anything else, is at risk.

[Señor Chris]

16 minutes ago, Richard10002 said:

I mean the cyclists are the danger, and the pedestrian, or boater, or dog, or anything else, is at risk.

But less risk than being by the road.

[Richard10002]

2 hours ago, Señor Chris said:

But less risk than being by the road.

Not in my experience. I walk on the pavement by the road with no fear whatsoever. When I'm on the towpath, or getting in and off the boat by the towpath, I've got eyes like a hawk, and am watching all ways all the time.