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BMC 1.5 - What is this connection for?


jhodgski

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The one right in the very centre of this photo...

 

https://db.tt/3KRPaWG9

 

Is it for a rev sensor?

As far as I can judge from the photo it has the appearance of a drive for a mechanical rev counter. Has the central drive got a square female socket in it of approximately 3 or 4mm square and does it rotate when the engine is running? It is difficult to say for sure as I am struggling to think what will be driving that output in that position.

Roger

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I'm curious. Wheres it taking it's drive from? Logic says it's the camshaft but I don't recall anything but lobes and journals at that end.

 

That is why I said it is probably an industrial base unit. You have probably only seen automotive camshafts.

 

I think they had a skew gear machined into the rear camshaft journal but don't hold me to that.

 

There is also a fair chance that the rear main bearing seal is a scroll and thrower rather than a lip seal.

Edited by Tony Brooks
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That is why I said it is probably an industrial base unit. You have probably only seen automotive camshafts.

 

I think they had a skew gear machined into the rear camshaft journal but don't hold me to that.

 

There is also a fair chance that the rear main bearing seal is a scroll and thrower rather than a lip seal.

 

Thanks

 

 

Frank

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That is why I said it is probably an industrial base unit. You have probably only seen automotive camshafts.

 

I think they had a skew gear machined into the rear camshaft journal but don't hold me to that.

 

There is also a fair chance that the rear main bearing seal is a scroll and thrower rather than a lip seal.

I would agree with you entirely Tony if it weren't for the apparent odd position of the drive. I think that we can assume that we are looking at the rear of the engine in the photo, by the apparent flywheel housing below, the gearbox cooler mounted on the top of the flywheel housing and the exhaust towards the LHS of the picture. However, the camshaft is surely on the other side of the engine driving, among other things, the distributor type injection pump? That's what had me confused.

Roger

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That's it. On the left hand side of the engine looking forward. Right at the back end of the block. Allow for the length of the drive housing and drive spindle and it will put the gear right beside the rear camshaft bearing.

 

No the camshaft is NOT on the injector pump side of the engine. There is a long cross shaft with a skew gear on it, much like a distributor drive shaft that the transmits the injector pump drive from the camshaft right across the engine to the injector pump. This is why the skew gear lubricator strainer and jet are on the left of the engine. You can just see the hexagon head of the jet in front of the drive and you can also see the part of the block casting that holds the strainer.

 

The photo was taken from the rear but the drive is in the side.

 

Calcutt seem to have taken their manuals off their website but the "the Dutch manual site" linked form mine that I mentioned in another thread shows the exploded view of the engine.

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That's it. On the left hand side of the engine looking forward. Right at the back end of the block. Allow for the length of the drive housing and drive spindle and it will put the gear right beside the rear camshaft bearing.

 

No the camshaft is NOT on the injector pump side of the engine. There is a long cross shaft with a skew gear on it, much like a distributor drive shaft that the transmits the injector pump drive from the camshaft right across the engine to the injector pump. This is why the skew gear lubricator strainer and jet are on the left of the engine. You can just see the hexagon head of the jet in front of the drive and you can also see the part of the block casting that holds the strainer.

 

The photo was taken from the rear but the drive is in the side.

 

Calcutt seem to have taken their manuals off their website but the "the Dutch manual site" linked form mine that I mentioned in another thread shows the exploded view of the engine.

Yep, sorry Tony, you're absolutely right. Funny how the memory plays tricks about the camshaft side of the engine. Mind you, it has been many years since I stripped a BMC. Confirms the mystery drive as a mechanical tacho drive.

Roger

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No probs, at least you thought about it and gave a fair reason based on the engine itself as to why you thought I might be wrong. That is unlike the response I got to saying that mechanical DPA pumps have their levers operating horizontally when the correspondent's own photos showed this to be true.

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No probs, at least you thought about it and gave a fair reason based on the engine itself as to why you thought I might be wrong. That is unlike the response I got to saying that mechanical DPA pumps have their levers operating horizontally when the correspondent's own photos showed this to be true.

Makes you wonder though why they chose to run the camshaft on the opposite side of the engine to the distributor when it would have been so much easier to have run it distributor side and drive the distributor (spark ign engines) straight off the camshaft. Perhaps it had something to do with inlet/exhaust port placement and hence pushrod location.

Roger

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Makes you wonder though why they chose to run the camshaft on the opposite side of the engine to the distributor when it would have been so much easier to have run it distributor side and drive the distributor (spark ign engines) straight off the camshaft. Perhaps it had something to do with inlet/exhaust port placement and hence pushrod location.

Roger

 

Seeing the petrol B series (and the A series come to that) have the pushrods on the same side as the 1.5 diesel I very much doubt the camshaft is on the other side on the petrol version. I think (almost know) the distributor drive was a long one running across the block.

 

This link (scroll down a bit) http://www.classicbuses.co.uk/+Morris.html shows the block of a 1600cc B series petrol engine. You will see the timing cover has its larger diameter offset to the left of the engine (looking from the back) and its the larger diameter that houses the cam shaft sprocket. Thus the camshaft is on the left of the block so the distributor drive must run right across the engine, just like the diesel version.

 

Also on all BMC & Austin engines of this age the fuel pump was on the left and these drive directly off the camshaft so again the shaft has to be on that side of the engine.

Edited by Tony Brooks
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Roger, it does indeed have a female quare socket in the middle. Does anyone know where I'd be able to get a mechanical tacho to fit??

Roger, it does indeed have a female quare socket in the middle. Does anyone know where I'd be able to get a mechanical tacho to fit??

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Roger, it does indeed have a female quare socket in the middle. Does anyone know where I'd be able to get a mechanical tacho to fit??

 

Google for Mechanical rev counter and you will see plenty of references but, of course, the end fittings might not be correct on the cables listed. I found a firm http://www.speedycables.com that might be able to advise you based on their experience. No connection with the firm it was just one that I found on the internet.

Roger

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Also on all BMC & Austin engines of this age the fuel pump was on the left and these drive directly off the camshaft so again the shaft has to be on that side of the engine.

Interesting, although I have to say that every car I owned back in the day with a B series engine (Austin A60, Wolseley 16/60, Riley 1500 etc) had an electric fuel pump mounted in the boot.

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Interesting, although I have to say that every car I owned back in the day with a B series engine (Austin A60, Wolseley 16/60, Riley 1500 etc) had an electric fuel pump mounted in the boot.

 

I know and weren't they a B,,, nuisance Well they are on my MGB.

 

L

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I know and weren't they a B,,, nuisance Well they are on my MGB.

 

L

Always breaking down. Have memories of a long journey in an Austin Cambridge where we had to run two wires to the pump, and my mate in the passenger seat spent the entire journey flashing the two exposed ends together every couple of seconds to get us home. smile.png

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Interesting, although I have to say that every car I owned back in the day with a B series engine (Austin A60, Wolseley 16/60, Riley 1500 etc) had an electric fuel pump mounted in the boot.

Unlike the Austin/Morris J4 van that had the fuel pump mounted behind the driver's seat. Just hit it with a fist and get going again. This on a vehicle less than a year old and 30K miles on the clock.

 

Alan

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Cheers Roger.

 

There is also a spare wire hanging off the top of the alternator regulator - is this likely to be for a rev counter and, if so, is this the more usual way of doing it? Presuming it is, how would I go about finding a rev gauge that will be compatible with my alternator output?

 

In terms of identification, my alternator regulator has...

1197 311 005

EL 14V 4C

Made in Germany

...on it.

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If the alternator had been modified to drive a revcounter the wire would normally be hanging out of a hole in the end bracket. A wire hanging out of the regulator is usually to connect an external alternator controller. This can be ignored.

 

Newer alternator designs have a W terminal on them (a phase tap) to drive an alternator.

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If the alternator had been modified to drive a revcounter the wire would normally be hanging out of a hole in the end bracket. A wire hanging out of the regulator is usually to connect an external alternator controller. This can be ignored.

 

Newer alternator designs have a W terminal on them (a phase tap) to drive an alternator.

What Tony has said ^^^^^^

 

Cheers Roger.

 

There is also a spare wire hanging off the top of the alternator regulator - is this likely to be for a rev counter and, if so, is this the more usual way of doing it? Presuming it is, how would I go about finding a rev gauge that will be compatible with my alternator output?

 

In terms of identification, my alternator regulator has...

1197 311 005

EL 14V 4C

Made in Germany

...on it.

I did wonder why you were looking at a mechanical rev counter to be honest (although you seem to have a working drive for it of course). An electrical one would be much simpler to install as it is just wiring and not a drive cable. The other thought that occurs to me is why you want a rev counter for a BMC 1.5 anyway. They don't tell you a huge amount in practical terms unless you happen to like comparing revs required for speed over the land in various channel/depth conditions and that sort of thing. I used my first boat with its BMC 1.8 for many years without needing one and if you have any sort of mechanical/engine 'feel' then you can almost estimate revs enough for all practical purposes. I admit here though that my background is automotive so I may start with a slight advantage on that score due to experience.

Roger

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Thanks for the replies.

 

Tony, did you mean the W terminal is to drive a tachometer?

 

Roger, Yes I would prefer an electrical solution if it isn't too expensive. Does this mean I need to buy a new alternator, though?

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