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LPWS4 larger header tank


FadeToScarlet

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My LPWS 4 developed an airlock at the top of the skin tank, and so overheated today. Topping up the skin tank and header tank seems to have solved that problem, because the engine now runs happily, the pipe work is cooler, and there is a temperature gradient across the surface of the skin tank whereas before, when it overheated, it was entirely cold but the pipes into the tank extremely hot! The engine itself got hot enough to set the water that came out of the header to steaming, but not hot enough to set off e high temperature alarm- I don't have a gauge.

 

I think the airlock developed over a long period of time, as it seems to have got hot yesterday when working hard, dumped some water out of the header, and then drawn some air in overnight to cause the airlock this evening.

 

The main thing is, is there anything worth doing before running her engine again and carrying on boating? Maybe an oil change? I'm also not sure if it's impeller cooled, I don't think it is as there's no mention of it in the manual, so presumably there's no impeller to change. The plan is to start off more slowly and gently, and run with the header tank open for a bit, to let any air escape and observe what's happening closely.

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I'm afraid I can't remember what the impeller is made of, which probably means it is metal. I would have remembered a plastic engine driven impeller as I haven't seen one yet

 

Richard

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No it isn't. It's in the pump housing at the top of the engine at the front. The pump and thermostat housing bolts onto the cylinder head with a machined tube linking it to the block

Richard

 

MORE: A slightly bizarre picture, the only one I could find. The pump is behind the conical pulley at the top:

 

water-pump.jpg

Edited by RLWP
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My LPWS 4 developed an airlock at the top of the skin tank, and so overheated today. Topping up the skin tank and header tank seems to have solved that problem, because the engine now runs happily, the pipe work is cooler, and there is a temperature gradient across the surface of the skin tank whereas before, when it overheated, it was entirely cold but the pipes into the tank extremely hot! The engine itself got hot enough to set the water that came out of the header to steaming, but not hot enough to set off e high temperature alarm- I don't have a gauge.

 

I think the airlock developed over a long period of time, as it seems to have got hot yesterday when working hard, dumped some water out of the header, and then drawn some air in overnight to cause the airlock this evening.

 

The main thing is, is there anything worth doing before running her engine again and carrying on boating? Maybe an oil change? I'm also not sure if it's impeller cooled, I don't think it is as there's no mention of it in the manual, so presumably there's no impeller to change. The plan is to start off more slowly and gently, and run with the header tank open for a bit, to let any air escape and observe what's happening closely.

My LPWS3 sometimes, when running for some 4 hours or so, dumps some water from the header. I think this is due to the relatively small size of the header tank compared to the volume of water in the cooling system (much more than in a 'standard' radiator) and being unable to cope with the expansion of such a volume of water. I have found that keeping just enough to cover the bottom of the header by half an inch or so minimises the loss of water to no more than a 'dampening'.

 

I do find it annoying that the header-tank cap does not have a small pipe attachement so that dumped water can be directed into a container rather than just being sprayed over the engine. I have considered changing the header for a remote off-engine type but have am not sure which would be suitable as the Lister one seems to employ a sort of circulatory system from the exhaust heat exchanger to the header tank via a 8mm pipe.

 

Regards

Ditchdabbler

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My LPWS3 sometimes, when running for some 4 hours or so, dumps some water from the header. I think this is due to the relatively small size of the header tank compared to the volume of water in the cooling system (much more than in a 'standard' radiator) and being unable to cope with the expansion of such a volume of water. I have found that keeping just enough to cover the bottom of the header by half an inch or so minimises the loss of water to no more than a 'dampening'.

 

I do find it annoying that the header-tank cap does not have a small pipe attachement so that dumped water can be directed into a container rather than just being sprayed over the engine. I have considered changing the header for a remote off-engine type but have am not sure which would be suitable as the Lister one seems to employ a sort of circulatory system from the exhaust heat exchanger to the header tank via a 8mm pipe.

 

Regards

Ditchdabbler

 

Almost any kind would do. Ray T of this parish has a nice one on his LPWS3 from a Renault IIRC

 

Richard

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I do find it annoying that the header-tank cap does not have a small pipe attachement so that dumped water can be directed into a container rather than just being sprayed over the engine. I have considered changing the header for a remote off-engine type but have am not sure which would be suitable as the Lister one seems to employ a sort of circulatory system from the exhaust heat exchanger to the header tank via a 8mm pipe.

 

 

The small pipe on mine runs from the top of the thermostat housing (Highest point on the main engine block) to the expansion tank, and seems to be there to help clear airlocks in the block, as normally there's nothing flowing in it. Just don't ask how I now know that's not the highest point in the cooling system....

 

If you've a skin tank and a heat exchanger, you will have two water pumps, one in the engine itself, which is similar to the one in most cars, and a second one which is normally a belt driven Jabsco or similar type with a rubbery, vane infested, impeller. The internal one is hard to damage by overheating as it's iron or steel, heat shrunk onto the shaft, but the Jabsco type is easy to damage, and it will be worth at least examining the impeller after it's been overheated. They also have a limited life, and need checking when you service the engine. Carry a spare.

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The small pipe on mine runs from the top of the thermostat housing (Highest point on the main engine block) to the expansion tank, and seems to be there to help clear airlocks in the block, as normally there's nothing flowing in it. Just don't ask how I now know that's not the highest point in the cooling system....

 

If you've a skin tank and a heat exchanger, you will have two water pumps, one in the engine itself, which is similar to the one in most cars, and a second one which is normally a belt driven Jabsco or similar type with a rubbery, vane infested, impeller. The internal one is hard to damage by overheating as it's iron or steel, heat shrunk onto the shaft, but the Jabsco type is easy to damage, and it will be worth at least examining the impeller after it's been overheated. They also have a limited life, and need checking when you service the engine. Carry a spare.

 

If you have a heat exchanger....

 

Richard

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Ditchdabbler, as RLWP mentions, I used a Renault header tank, similar to this:

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1998-RENAULT-MEGANE-RT-1-6E-SPORT-GLX-OVERFLOW-HEADER-TANK-FAST-DISPATCH-/390883089050?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item5b02729a9a

 

This is a used example, I'm sure if you hunt around you will be able to find an unused one if you want that.

 

14207088786_bf0a214bab_z.jpg

 

I was suffering similar problems on my LPWS3. I have taken the old tank off the top of the engine.

The feed pipe came out of the bottom of the old tank.

 

As long as you have the tank above the level of the engine you will be OK.

 

This was my old header tank:

 

14792031144_1daa21100a.jpgDS

 

The black pipe curving above the fuel filter was the engine coolant return pipe to the header tank.

This now goes to the top connection of the Renault header tank.

 

I also had problems filling the old tank as the filler was below a beam. I lost count of the number of times I dropped the cap in the bilge.

 

If you require any further assistance please eMail me.

Edited by Ray T
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So, the current plan is....

 

There's a Euro car parts in Northampton. We just missed the one in Peterborough closing early today, and it's closed tomorrow.

 

I'm going to ring them up and see what the biggest header tank they have is. The other things I need are lengths of pipe to connect it- I intend to mount it off the engine in a convenient spot.

 

I know the smaller pipe is 8mm (internal diameter?) hose, because it says on it- but what's the diameter of the larger hose going into the bottom of the tank, which takes most of the water? I have some calipers to measure the metal tube it's pushed over, but I can't find them anywhere.

 

Where's Chris B when you want him most? :D

Edited by FadeToScarlet
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FTS if your header tank is similar to the original one attached to my LPWS3:

 

14792031144_1daa21100a.jpg

 

The external diameter of the tube coming out of the bottom of the tank i.e. the outlet is 16.9mm according to my Digital Electronic Callipers.

 

The header tank is British Leyland Part No NAM 7835.

 

Hope this helps.

Edited by Ray T
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  • 2 weeks later...

Right. I now have a larger, 4 litre, header tank. Hoorah! And enough 15mm heater hose to connect it, and the bits to connect that hose onto the header tank.

 

The only problem is the 8mm hose that comes off the top of the thermostat. I've not, at the moment, got a way of connecting that into the new header tank.

 

I connected the main 15mm hose up earlier, and blanked off the existing tank, and the 8mm tube was initially getting hot and putting water into the old header tank. This leads me to believe that this is the thermostat bypass, and that as I don't want to lose any water every time the engine starts, I need to find more 8mm hose and barbed connectors, etc., to run this into the newer, larger header tank.

 

Does this sound right to everyone?

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  • 2 weeks later...

Finally got it all fitted, and it seems to be working well. Managed to find a plumber in Norton Canes with an 8mm- 15mm coupler, and a short length of copper pipe, to attach the new, longer 8mm hose to. Not worked it really hard yet, but after a good run, the coolant rises about an inch in the tank- but there's 5 inches to go before it overflows! Much better so far.

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I've been wondering about this for some time.

I have an LPWS3 with a header tank that is not pressurised. I suppose it's more of an overflow tank, really.

The engine seem to need about a litre of water every day, and so I top it up before I run it.

When I first had the boat, I had a lot of trouble with those Polar right-angle endcap jobbies, which kept splitting and dropping all the coolant into the bilges.

There were some spare caps on board when I bought the boat, so I suspect the previous owner had the same problem.

 

I've changed the pressure cap from 13 PSI to 7 PSI and I've had a lot less trouble with the endcaps splitting.

 

My theory is that the previous owner tried to fix the water consumption issue by fitting a higher pressure filler cap, which resulted in the rubber endcap splitting.

 

I've been wondering or some time whether it is worth changing to a pressurised header tank.

 

Any thoughts?

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