if you had £800...

[Hannah and Jay]

What engine would you buy?!

We're thinking of replacing our old p4 as it's ancient and difficult to find parts for (we're still having no luck with a replacement injector pump!) The boat is a 57ft springer and the budget is around £800. To go for something like a bmc or lister (we currently have a raw water cooling system) or something Japanese maybe? Hoping to sell the old lump for around £400.

Advice appreciated as always

[saltysplash]

If i had £800 what engine would i buy?......id probably want another £800

[RLWP]

Lawn mower engines are pretty cheap

 

Richard

[MtB]

What engine would you buy?!

We're thinking of replacing our old p4 as it's ancient and difficult to find parts for (we're still having no luck with a replacement injector pump!) The boat is a 57ft springer and the budget is around £800. To go for something like a bmc or lister (we currently have a raw water cooling system) or something Japanese maybe? Hoping to sell the old lump for around £400.

Advice appreciated as always

 

A Kelvin P4? Probably worth a good deal more than £400.

 

But it's pretty hard to comment or advise without even the most basic info about your boat. What length is it to start with? And what propeller do you have now?

 

MtB

[Athy]

They did say that it was a 57 foot Springer - so perhaps a Perkins P4 would be more likely than a Kelvin ditto?

[Troyboy]

If you want an engine that is simple to work on and with reasonable availability of parts at sensible prices them my recommendation would be a BMC 1.5 . They appear on Ebay quite often but as you will also have to budget for changing engine mounts etc you will need a bit more than 800 pounds I'm afraid . .

[MtB]

They did say that it was a 57 foot Springer - so perhaps a Perkins P4 would be more likely than a Kelvin ditto?

 

This is terrible. I read the OP several times looking for a boat length!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Is the Perkins P4 suitable for raw water cooling then? The Kelvin was the only one I could think of called a P4.

 

MtB

[gazza]

Confused.com?

 

http://www.canalworld.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=35322

[MtB]

What's wrong with your injector pump? Can it not be repaired?

 

A whole lot less trouble than replacing a whole Perkins P4 I'd have thought...

 

 

MtB

[Arthur Brown]

I reckon I'd be very cautious of any engine complete with gearbox for £800, and only the same engine as you already have will mate to the box you have.

 

I'd also be keen to look at more places to find the spares that you need to make the installed engine good again. Removing and engine is hard work, but rebuilding the engine hole to take another engine is much more work, getting the couplings right, the mounts right and the cooling right will set you back much more than £800. For a different repacement I'd budget for £3K for the work.

[Grace and Favour]

Rover P4

[OldGoat]

I wonder -

folks get confused by 'external' water cooling.

Raw Water Cooling to me means canal water goes straight into the engine's water jacket and out over the side. Quite often usd on seagoing boats and with Bukh type engines.

 

Fresh Water Cooling or Heat Exchanger Cooling is more often used in NB systems. Canal water enters (hopefully) via a mud box and is pumped around a heat exchanger via a separate water pump. The heat exchanger also cools the exhaust manifold. Engine exhaust gases are mixed with the canal water and go over the side.

 

All the NBs that I've seen (and that's pretty few) use the latter system.

 

Dunno why I mention it but it might have a bearing on replacement costs.

 

Surely injector pumps can be sourced Perkins were popular engines - perhaps the OP needs to look at vintage enthusiasts?? Could Lancing Marine help?

 

[David Mack]

Have you seen this?

 

http://www.smokstak.com/forum/showthread.php?t=134206

I wonder -

folks get confused by 'external' water cooling.

Raw Water Cooling to me means canal water goes straight into the engine's water jacket and out over the side. Quite often usd on seagoing boats and with Bukh type engines.

 

Fresh Water Cooling or Heat Exchanger Cooling is more often used in NB systems. Canal water enters (hopefully) via a mud box and is pumped around a heat exchanger via a separate water pump. The heat exchanger also cools the exhaust manifold. Engine exhaust gases are mixed with the canal water and go over the side.

 

All the NBs that I've seen (and that's pretty few) use the latter system.

 

Most NBs use Skin Tank Cooling in which the engine cooling water passes through a thin tank welded to the boat's hull side, which effectively forms a heat exchanger with the canal water outside. A dry exhaust is used.

[jake_crew]

I'm a member of Smokstak and have asked for the contact details - I'll forward them to Hannah and Joy when I hear.

[MtB]

I wonder -

folks get confused by 'external' water cooling.

 

Do they? Who introduced the term 'external water cooling' other than you?

 

The OP is perfectly clear, their current installation has raw water cooling.

 

 

MtB

[OldGoat]

Have you seen this?

 

http://www.smokstak.com/forum/showthread.php?t=134206

 

Most NBs use Skin Tank Cooling in which the engine cooling water passes through a thin tank welded to the boat's hull side, which effectively forms a heat exchanger with the canal water outside. A dry exhaust is used.

 

 

Duh! Instead of

"All the NBs that I've seen (and that's pretty few) use the latter system".

 

Perhaps I should have said -

All the NBs that I've seen with external water cooling (and that's pretty few) use the latter system.

 

My posts are usually pretty wordy and if I had to dot every 't' and cross every 'i' (make of that what you will) then meme I wouldn't start...... (sniff)

[Paul C]

I wonder what the costs of converting to skin tank cooling would be, it would be a sensible thing to combine with an engine change. Failing that, fo £800 I can't think of anything sensible out there so I'd budget for more. I'd be tempted to buy new if you plan to use the boat for a while though - which is naturally going to cost quite a lot more than £800 all in.

[Geordie.narrowboat]

Hmm with all that money, I might buy a paddle

[gazza]

Try these for pump overhaul.

 

 

http://dieselcareservices.com/Diesel%20Care%20Services%20Website/pages/index.html

 

I've just used them for a Kubota d722. Vic knows his stuff, most of the old stuff ends up on his bench from other so called specialist in northants. It would appear the younger generation wouldn't know what an inline pump was if it slapped em in the face!

Try these for pump overhaul.

 

 

http://dieselcareservices.com/Diesel%20Care%20Services%20Website/pages/index.html

 

I've just used them for a Kubota d722. Vic knows his stuff, most of the old stuff ends up on his bench from other so called specialist in northants. It would appear the younger generation wouldn't know what an inline pump was if it slapped em in the face!

Try these for pump overhaul.

 

 

http://dieselcareservices.com/Diesel%20Care%20Services%20Website/pages/index.html

 

I've just used them for a Kubota d722. Vic knows his stuff, most of the old stuff ends up on his bench from other so called specialist in northants. It would appear the younger generation wouldn't know what an inline pump was if it slapped em in the face!

Wow, don't know what happened there!

[David Mack]

 

 

Duh! Instead of

"All the NBs that I've seen (and that's pretty few) use the latter system".

 

Perhaps I should have said -

All the NBs that I've seen with external water cooling (and that's pretty few) use the latter system.

 

My posts are usually pretty wordy and if I had to dot every 't' and cross every 'i' (make of that what you will) then meme I wouldn't start...... (sniff)

 

I would say that skin tank cooling is external water cooling.

 

And many ex working boats (that haven't had air cooled engines fitted) have direct raw water cooling.

[magnetman]

I have a Perkins P4 in one of my boats. Superb engine ex mod

 

Saw one go on eBay recently for £257. Bargain

 

I'd have thought the injection pump would be sortable,

 

Those people in Devon with MoD stuff sometimes have them so may have parts too.

 

Forgot the name

Woods of Crediton

It would have to be severely nackered for me to consider replacing such a good unit.

Also fitted to tractors but there were two versions of the P4 not sure if they use the same pump

[Alan de Enfield]

Woods of Crediton have a complete P4 engine and gearbox, marinised - £1500

 

http://www.woods-group.co.uk/engines.htm

[Hannah and Jay]

Many thanks for so many replies!

 

Just to confirm, yes its a perkins p4. Older than 1978 as it pre-dates the two letter prefix before the engine number. And yes, I meant fresh water cooled rether than raw water, my bad...

So I have lots more leads to follow now in terms of replacing or refurbing pump. And I realise that changing the engine, mounts, etc, may cost a lot more than £800 so we're prob better off paying for a refurb pump. I'm just worried that we'll run into more problems down the road and it seems so difficult to get replacement parts for an engine of its age

 

I'll follow up on all the pump specialists you've listed, Thank you!

[magnetman]

Just spotted an update old thread suggesting you bought this 'brand new' in 2011...

I know its a 1950s engine but did you buy it as an ex admiralty crated engine?

 

I'm surprised you are having problems with it

(Not sure how I got the word 'update' in there my fone keyboard does odd things)

[OldGoat]

Many thanks for so many replies!

 

Just to confirm, yes its a perkins p4. Older than 1978 as it pre-dates the two letter prefix before the engine number.

 

And yes, I meant fresh water cooled rether than raw water, my bad...

So I have lots more leads to follow now in terms of replacing or refurbing pump. And I realise that changing the engine, mounts, etc, may cost a lot more than £800 so we're prob better off paying for a refurb pump. I'm just worried that we'll run into more problems down the road and it seems so difficult to get replacement parts for an engine of its age

 

I'll follow up on all the pump specialists you've listed, Thank you!

 

 

I thought you might - lorra people do and it's no reflection on you.

 

Somehow it makes up for all the sh*t that folks have poured on me - argumentative piles of poo that they are......

 

My intention is to get all the details cleared up before you spend money on the wrong engine (not to score points over others).

 

Now I don't know your particular engine, but I had a tractor with a P3 which was pretty solid, both methinks make the right sort of noise in a NB (not that it's a design goal for you), but my impression is that they ae long lasting, so if:-

your engine is in otherwise good / reasonable condition - it might be worth spending a bit from someone who knows older engines to give it a look over,

then it might well be worth keeping it?

 

BTW the Crediton engine looks as if it had a 'down angle' gearbox shaft, f that's so it might not have been suitable for you. As it's painted grey = RAF it might have been for a seaplane tender. Could be wrong.

 

OK guys, over to you. I'm beginning not to care for this forum, load of self abusers amongst you. Such a pity.