bmc 1.5 wont start

[lexicon]

Hi all need some advice

started my engine today. Started fine. Then after 5mins it stopped.

starter is turning but no ignition.put a bit more diesel in incase i had unwittingly run out.

fuel coming from injector pipes in spurts when starter turns.

any suggestions as to what to try next?

[bizzard]

Hi all need some advice

started my engine today. Started fine. Then after 5mins it stopped.

starter is turning but no ignition.put a bit more diesel in incase i had unwittingly run out.

fuel coming from injector pipes in spurts when starter turns.

any suggestions as to what to try next?

Are you certain that there's no air in those spurts? Have you dipped the fuel tank?.

[RLWP]

Is your stop cable working properly? Check it both ends

 

Richard

[MtB]

Is your stop cable working properly? Check it both ends

 

Richard

 

Wouldn't the STOP cable prevent fuel from reaching the injectors, if inadvertently activated?

 

MtB

[RLWP]

 

Wouldn't the STOP cable prevent fuel from reaching the injectors, if inadvertently activated?

 

MtB

 

A recent interesting call out was to a boat that wouldn't run because the stop lever on the main pump was loose. It had been running, then it stopped

 

And.... diagnosis by forum is always tricky

 

Richard

[lexicon]

Thanks for the advice.

further update.

stop cable checked and ok both ends and operating correctly.

when nut on top of fuel filter (from return pipe) is loosened and lift pump operated a frothy bubbly diesel comes out.

is it possibly that as only a few litres of diesel where out it its still drawing a bit if air from the too empty tank?

[MtB]

I'm not expert but the froth sounds very wrong to me. Air in the diesel will definitely stop it from running as the air bubbles compress instead of the fuel being forced through the injectors.

 

I think you need to bleed the fuel system starting with that nut on the fuel filter until nothing but fuel comes out, with no bubbles.

 

Bleeding a BMC is not straightforward IIRC. Have a search, there are a number of recent threads here on how to do it.

 

MtB

 

 

P.S. are you saying the injector leak-off pipe returns to the tank via the fuel filter? Sounds unusual to me.

Edited July 13, 2014 by Mike the Boilerman

[pete.i]

Hi

It doesn't take much air to stop a BMC 1.5. I have a 1.5 and I had a little tiny air leak in one of the fuel line couplers. The coupler was hidden and no diesel was coming out just air going in. It took me ages to find it and in fact I solved it by tracing the fuel line and changing all the olives in the couplers. There is a video on You tube

 

 

showing you the bleed sequence for the BMC 1.5. Tony Brooks, a man all knowledgeable about BMC engines and other stuff says not to touch the nut/bolt on the throttle turret of the diesel pump so I don't but it does say to bleed that one in the video but if Tony Brookes say don't then don't do it is as far as I am concerned. but do all the other bleeding points. Last to do is the injector couplers and it usually fires when the first one is bled then auto bleeding should take over. As MTB says they can be a bit of a pig to bleed although I haven't had any problems either with the BMC on my boat nor with the BMC engine that I am doing up.

 

Hope that helps

 

Pete

 

PS Yes Mike the bleed off pipe does go back via the filter on my engine as well. Not sure why though unless it is filtered before being returned to the tank.

Edited July 13, 2014 by pete.i

[Tony Brooks]

It is done like this because the injectors need a leak off back to the tank and unless you want to be bleeding the 1.5 every few minutes you also need a small bleed back to the tank from the filter. The banjo bolt in the filter top should have a 0.5mm hole in it. This allows a small amount of fuel plus any air building up the the filter head to bleed back to the tank.

 

The flow from the injectors goes around the banjo bolts while the flow from the filter rises up through the bolt and 0.5mm hole.

 

Frothy fuel sounds like air to me and I suspect the OP has run out of fuel, even if the dipstick shows 4 or 5 inches in the tank. It needs several gallons putting in.

 

Once again I will caution ordinary boaters (as opposed to experienced DIY engineering types) NOT to use the bleed screw on the top of the lever turret on the injector pump, whatever the manuals and maybe the video may say. It is all too easy to disturb the idle stabilisation setting that is on many such pumps, to snap the idle stabilisation adjuster, or to wrench the whole assembly out of the top of the pump.

 

If you really can't get it bled from the side bleed point the come back for another "bruit force" way of doing it.

[lexicon]

After a go at bleeding at the points in the video, managed to get it firing again a little but will rebleed after i sell my soul to buy a few gallons if diesel. At least i know its nothing to serious.

thanks to all for the help and advice.

[MtB]

Are you stranded?

 

If so, telling the board where you are stuck might result in a forum member passing and stopping, with some in a jerry can...

[lexicon]

Thanks mike

i am stranded in so much as i cant move, but luckily im on my home mooring so no rush to be rescued.

[MtB]

You have a mooring in High Wycombe??!!!

 

 

MtB

[lexicon]

No mike.

i don't put my boat location on my profile as i have a ex that is madder than a box of frogs.

[pete.i]

It is done like this because the injectors need a leak off back to the tank and unless you want to be bleeding the 1.5 every few minutes you also need a small bleed back to the tank from the filter. The banjo bolt in the filter top should have a 0.5mm hole in it. This allows a small amount of fuel plus any air building up the the filter head to bleed back to the tank.

 

The flow from the injectors goes around the banjo bolts while the flow from the filter rises up through the bolt and 0.5mm hole.

 

Frothy fuel sounds like air to me and I suspect the OP has run out of fuel, even if the dipstick shows 4 or 5 inches in the tank. It needs several gallons putting in.

 

Once again I will caution ordinary boaters (as opposed to experienced DIY engineering types) NOT to use the bleed screw on the top of the lever turret on the injector pump, whatever the manuals and maybe the video may say. It is all too easy to disturb the idle stabilisation setting that is on many such pumps, to snap the idle stabilisation adjuster, or to wrench the whole assembly out of the top of the pump.

 

If you really can't get it bled from the side bleed point the come back for another "bruit force" way of doing it.

Um Mr Brooks I would be, genuinely, interested in another "brute force" way of doing it. Whilst I haven't had any problems bleeding either of the 2 BMC 1.5s that I have any different ways to do stuff would be useful.

 

Cheers

 

Pete

[Tony Brooks]

Um Mr Brooks I would be, genuinely, interested in another "brute force" way of doing it. Whilst I haven't had any problems bleeding either of the 2 BMC 1.5s that I have any different ways to do stuff would be useful.

 

Cheers

 

Pete

 

 

Undo the return pipe either on the "back in arrow" union on the filter head or the pipe union nearest the cylinder block on the pump. Then spin the engine on the starter. You get both lift and transfer pump pressure pushing air out of the pump - beware of making too large a mess.

 

Got me out of a hole on more than one occasion but usually conventional bleeding via the screw on the pump body is sufficient.

[pete.i]

 

 

Undo the return pipe either on the "back in arrow" union on the filter head or the pipe union nearest the cylinder block on the pump. Then spin the engine on the starter. You get both lift and transfer pump pressure pushing air out of the pump - beware of making too large a mess.

 

Got me out of a hole on more than one occasion but usually conventional bleeding via the screw on the pump body is sufficient.

Thank you very much for that. As I have said I haven't had any problems bleeding either of mine but it's always good to learn of alternative methods especially "brute force" ones.

 

Pete

[lexicon]

Update

after dwp finally getting there act together i put a small amount if extra diesel in and after another round of bleeding the engine is now back running happily.

[don bott.]

Hi all. new to this site...Hello

I have a bmc 1.5 diesel in my boat (19'LOFTUS BENNET) which I just cant get running ? the freind I bought it from had the injection pump rebuilt, and all new injectors too. Have replaced the lift pump with an electric pump now, but just will not start ? bled from tank to bleed point (8mm head) on side of pump. peeing out fine. but hardly anything at injectors ( I know it doesnt need that much fuel to run) loads running back to tank return  and tank 3/4 s full too. but will not run ???

HELP !! PLEASE 

Edited July 13, 2017 by don bott.

[don bott.]

Hi all. new to this site...Hello

I have a bmc 1.5 diesel in my boat (19'LOFTUS BENNET) which I just cant get running ? the freind I bought it from had the injection pump rebuilt, and all new injectors too. Have replaced the lift pump with an electric pump now, but just will not start ? bled from tank to bleed point (8mm head) on side of pump. peeing out fine. but hardly anything at injectors ( I know it doesnt need that much fuel to run) loads running back to tank return  and tank 3/4 s full too. but will not run ???

HELP !! PLEASE 

[WotEver]

:::awaits Tony B::::

[Alan de Enfield]

4 minutes ago, don bott. said:

Hi all. new to this site...Hello

I have a bmc 1.5 diesel in my boat (19'LOFTUS BENNET) which I just cant get running ? the freind I bought it from had the injection pump rebuilt, and all new injectors too. Have replaced the lift pump with an electric pump now, but just will not start ? bled from tank to bleed point (8mm head) on side of pump. peeing out fine. but hardly anything at injectors ( I know it doesnt need that much fuel to run) loads running back to tank return  and tank 3/4 s full too. but will not run ???

HELP !! PLEASE 

A diesel needs 3 things to run

Fuel

Air

Compression.

Loosen off the nuts on the injectors - turn the engine over, are you getting a diesel dribble ? If so you are getting fuel.

Check air filter - is it clear ? Try taking out the filter and trying to start it.

Do you have 'good compression' - try turning the engine over (with the ignition off) using a spanner on the flywheel.

 

If everything is 'good to go' then it is possibly that someone has messed with the timing and the Fuel / Air / compression are not all arriving at the same (correct) time.

Did the injection pump go back in the correct position ?

That is a bit more difficult one to sort out.

[Alan de Enfield]

Isn't it annoying when someone asks the identical question in multiple threads :

Here is the answer I gave :

A diesel needs 3 things to run

Fuel

Air

Compression.

Loosen off the nuts on the injectors - turn the engine over, are you getting a diesel dribble ? If so you are getting fuel.

Check air filter - is it clear ? Try taking out the filter and trying to start it.

Do you have 'good compression' - try turning the engine over (with the ignition off) using a spanner on the flywheel.

 

If everything is 'good to go' then it is possibly that someone has messed with the timing and the Fuel / Air / compression are not all arriving at the same (correct) time.

Did the injection pump go back in the correct position ?

[Tony Brooks]

As long as no one has pulled the dog injector pump drive shaft out of the the engine I think a 1.5 will start wherever the pump is on the slotted holes - may be4 smoke, run like a pig, lack power and so but I think it should start.

As Alan says - you are trying to bleed the injectors with the engine spinning aren't you. If its stationary it won't work - nothing will come form the injectors. Oh, and you are loosening the LARGE injector union nuts.

While cranking how much smoke is coming from the exhaust? - lots = fuel present, probably lack of compression at this time of year. A few wisps = no fuel, go bleed the fuel filter head and injector pump again - make sure the stop lever on the PUMP is in the run position - I THINK pushed towards the engine.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Tony Brooks]

I also answered in the other thread but I will copy it here because the other thread is an old one.

As long as no one has pulled the dog injector pump drive shaft out of the the engine I think a 1.5 will start wherever the pump is on the slotted holes - may be smoke, run like a pig, lack power and so but I think it should start.

As Alan says - you are trying to bleed the injectors with the engine spinning aren't you. If its stationary it won't work - nothing will come form the injectors. Oh, and you are loosening the LARGE injector union nuts.

While cranking how much smoke is coming from the exhaust? - lots = fuel present, probably lack of compression at this time of year. A few wisps = no fuel, go bleed the fuel filter head and injector pump again - make sure the stop lever on the PUMP is in the run position - I THINK pushed towards the engine.

PS to pull the drive shaft out of the engine unless the adaptor flange is removed form the engine so unlikely.

If it is a timing problem its more likely to be related to worn pump drive skew gears or worn timing gear.