What would be the original throttle on a big Northwich be?

[fittie]

I was wondering what would have been the original speed control be for a large Northwich. Does anyone know and or have pictures of what a large Northwich would have been like when launched re speed control?

cheers

 

Sorry for the misuse of English. Too many 'be's.

Edited July 13, 2014 by fittie

[FadeToScarlet]

Speedwheel and.gear wheel, wasnt it?

[b0atman]

Not a carrot for the horse then

[roland elsdon]

Large wheel for clutch half turn each way forward reverse, small wheel for speed, I think gear on right but not sure, mine had ha2 so lost gear wheel.

[David Mack]

Large wheel for clutch half turn each way forward reverse

I think the half turn each way was after the later mods to accommodate a PD2, whereas the original National / RN setup involved more turns on the gear wheel. Fulbourne's certainly does, although it is not an original installation.

[Laurence Hogg]

Rotary throttle gear (Approx300 degree on the left and large gear change wheel on right, I know this is a Wooowich but the arrangement is identical.

 

[fittie]

Thanks for the picture - I though it should be a speed wheel but my boat has some sort of brass leaver a little like a sash window lock but with a ratchet system that clicks as you move it forward and back. It looks old and is quite worn. It has been suggested that this leaver might be original - I have never seen one like this before. I will try to get a picture of it next time I'm down.

 

I can't see a rotary throttle gear in the picture just what looks like a plate on the bed hole. Mr Hogg if you can stick one of your arrows on it so I can see what you mean ( in the picture that is - I know what one looks like it the flesh if you know what I mean).

[BEngo]

The large, spoked wheel on the right is the gear wheel. It looks very similar to a decent-sized lathe's carriage handwheel, though no doubt Yarwood's (or H&W's) own foundry and machine shop were quite capable of making them as needed.

 

The speed wheel was on the left, and if a fancy one, usually the boatman's own, like the decorative cabin brass work and knobs. I think it can just be seen as a dark blob on the plate.

 

N

[archie57]

Old boaters used to talk about travelling at "Full cable rate" - there's a clue for you!

[FadeToScarlet]

Thanks for the picture - I though it should be a speed wheel but my boat has some sort of brass leaver a little like a sash window lock but with a ratchet system that clicks as you move it forward and back. It looks old and is quite worn. It has been suggested that this leaver might be original - I have never seen one like this before. I will try to get a picture of it next time I'm down.

 

I can't see a rotary throttle gear in the picture just what looks like a plate on the bed hole. Mr Hogg if you can stick one of your arrows on it so I can see what you mean ( in the picture that is - I know what one looks like it the flesh if you know what I mean).

Was the boat re engined? It sounds like the lever-type throttle on the Ibex, and Yeoford has one too.

[archie57]

The "Yeoford" had a speedwheel when it had it's last engine in - a PD2

[FadeToScarlet]

The "Yeoford" had a speedwheel when it had it's last engine in - a PD2

But it's got an AS2 now, hasn't it?

[archie57]

Yes - installed at a guess 10 years ago

[alan_fincher]

"Sculptor", (Small Northwich), doesn't have a speed wheel, but has instead I believe a quadrant lever type arrangement.

 

It has been suggested to me that this was the original arrangement on these boats. No idea if that is correct, though, or ever applied to anything other than the "small" type.

[pete harrison]

Yes - installed at a guess 10 years ago

My records suggest circa 1979, but I am happy to be corrected (still a Petter PD2 in June 1978).

 

YEOFORD certainly had a Armstrong Siddley AS2 (Parsons Merganser ? - exCYPRESS ?) by 1984 when Rod North / Donald (The Duck) White were operating YEOFORD and ARGON for B. & M.C.C.Co. Ltd..

[archie57]

I dare say you're right Pete - my guess of 10 years is only 25 years out! (I put it down to old age - perhaps I need putting down!)

[pete harrison]

I though it should be a speed wheel but my boat has some sort of brass leaver a little like a sash window lock but with a ratchet system that clicks as you move it forward and back. It looks old and is quite worn. It has been suggested that this leaver might be original - I have never seen one like this before. I will try to get a picture of it next time I'm down.

Your engine speed adjuster sounds very similar to those fitted to some narrow boats with Parsons engines (based on Armstrong Siddley AS air cooled diesels), and not dissimilar to the device supplied with some 1970's and 1980's Lister diesel engines.

 

I may be able to answer your question better if I know which boat you have (LANCING ?).

[dave moore]

As I recall,,the quadrant and lever with pawl was also standard on some Admiral class motors, fitted in the 60s with Armstrong AS 2 diesels. Tay had a similar arrangement with a single pot 1051 Bolinder, if my memory serves....

 

The right/ left hand shading on the BW livery, raised by Archie, I've heard before, that southern road boats were shaded right handed,,northern boats on the left. I've discounted it as a rule,,suspecting that most working writers would have shaded according to personal preference ( I always shade to the left unless specifically asked for a right hand shadow ) but I'd be interested to hear justification for this. Over many years, I've done both ways, mainly to the right for a long time now. Any definitive answers out there?

 

Cheers

 

Dave

[IanM]

Was the boat re engined? It sounds like the lever-type throttle on the Ibex, and Yeoford has one too.

Yeoford has wheels for throttle and gears. It's Collingwood with the lever/ratchet type arrangement.

[Laurence Hogg]

Thanks for the picture - I though it should be a speed wheel but my boat has some sort of brass leaver a little like a sash window lock but with a ratchet system that clicks as you move it forward and back. It looks old and is quite worn. It has been suggested that this leaver might be original - I have never seen one like this before. I will try to get a picture of it next time I'm down.

 

I can't see a rotary throttle gear in the picture just what looks like a plate on the bed hole. Mr Hogg if you can stick one of your arrows on it so I can see what you mean ( in the picture that is - I know what one looks like it the flesh if you know what I mean).

The picture actually shows the rotary throttle framed perfectly by a plate, its the smaller circlular object in the middle.

[Laurence Hogg]

Thanks for the picture - I though it should be a speed wheel but my boat has some sort of brass leaver a little like a sash window lock but with a ratchet system that clicks as you move it forward and back. It looks old and is quite worn. It has been suggested that this leaver might be original - I have never seen one like this before. I will try to get a picture of it next time I'm down.

 

I can't see a rotary throttle gear in the picture just what looks like a plate on the bed hole. Mr Hogg if you can stick one of your arrows on it so I can see what you mean ( in the picture that is - I know what one looks like it the flesh if you know what I mean).

 

The little lever throttles were often from Lister and Petter, some were known as Listard throttles and were two brass pieces with leather between and a cable attached, some Petter ones had a ratchet. When we imported the Ruston YD engines as the "CD2" they came fitted with "Listard" controls bolted to the gearchange lever.

[Timleech]

'Listard' was, I think, a trade name for the chrome hardening applied to some of their (Listers) cylinder liners.

I think the original speed wheel as fitted to GUCCC motors was a solid steel disc with a little handle.

The gear wheel, as far as I can deduce, was the wheel supplied by Bruntons with their gearboxes, removed from the gearbox and fitted instead just under the cabin slide. I've no idea whether Bruntons supplied the bevel gears for the remote gearbox operation, but all the GU motors seemed to use the same gears.

The actual mechanism for transferring the rotary speed wheel motion to a vertical rod for controlling the engine throttle was quite a simple affair but well thought out, again seems to have been common throughout the GUCCC motors.

 

Tim

Edited July 13, 2014 by Timleech

[fittie]

Cheers everyone. So these boats were ALL fitted with a speed wheel when built and these little lever throttles are from a later period. The engine is a PD2 so that is most likely when she got the little lever throttle. Interesting that Alan was told that these were original because until some one told me the same I thought that a speed wheel was the original but now doubt is creeping in or has crept in.

Sorry for being a bit thick but I like using speed wheel and if the leaver thing was the original I would learn to like it.

 

paul

 

ps still not sure though.

Edited July 14, 2014 by fittie

[Leo No2]

"Sculptor", (Small Northwich), doesn't have a speed wheel, but has instead I believe a quadrant lever type arrangement.

 

It has been suggested to me that this was the original arrangement on these boats. No idea if that is correct, though, or ever applied to anything other than the "small" type.

 

Sculptor's current throttle arrangement - first image - (I wonder if it was replaced when the Lister HA2 was fitted in the early sixties as there is a much bigger opening through to the engine room than seems to be necessary for the current cable - second image).

 

 

[fittie]

I can't remember what the one on The Boat looks like now I will have to get some pictures the next time I go south and see The Boat. Won't be soon as an 8 hour drive is a bit much what with work and all.

The Boat's one is brass (I think) and you can see where the cable has cut a slot in the bulkhead over the years.

Thanks for a very informative picture.

Cheers,

paul

Edited July 14, 2014 by fittie