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Traveller

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John V Veteran

John V

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many many years ago I bought a product from Harry Wheatcroft (him of rose growing fame), I believe it was based on tannic acid, it converted rust into an impervious layer that you could then overpaint.

You could buy it from him at a reasonable price in 2.5 or 5 litre containers. Unfortunately he sold that part of his business on to one of the car product people who then sold it in tiny bottles for a fortune.

The product was very good indeed.

I don't know if anyone has come across anything similar that is still available

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Neil2 Veteran

Neil2

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many many years ago I bought a product from Harry Wheatcroft (him of rose growing fame), I believe it was based on tannic acid, it converted rust into an impervious layer that you could then overpaint.

You could buy it from him at a reasonable price in 2.5 or 5 litre containers. Unfortunately he sold that part of his business on to one of the car product people who then sold it in tiny bottles for a fortune.

The product was very good indeed.

I don't know if anyone has come across anything similar that is still available

I believe you are talking about Trustan 23, which is no longer available but was the only rust converter that actually worked, it really did. Why it is no longer on the market I don't know, but it seems that whenever a product comes along that actually lives up to it's billing, it seems to disappear quite quickly. Anyone for a conspiracy theory?

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George94 Experienced

George94

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The reason good products disappear is that they damage the sales of competing, higher-priced products, so a competitor will buy the company making the superior product and re-size, re-label, re-price it so that it no longer damages the sales of the competitor's original product.

 

It saves on R&D too. Microsoft seldom develops anything itself. That would require brains. It just buys competitors.

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Phil Ambrose Veteran II

Phil Ambrose

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Posted (edited)

I believe you are talking about Trustan 23, which is no longer available but was the only rust converter that actually worked, it really did. Why it is no longer on the market I don't know, but it seems that whenever a product comes along that actually lives up to it's billing, it seems to disappear quite quickly. Anyone for a conspiracy theory?

Never used Trustan but I can assure you Phosphoric acid does work, chemicle reaction changing Ferric Oxide (rust) into Ferric Phosphate (not rust)

Phil

Edit for fat finger

Edited by Phil Ambrose
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Bobbybass Experienced

Bobbybass

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Yup..Vactan...

 

Big bottles on Fleabay quite cheap...

 

Bear in mind...that these converters only work on the RUST.

They convert the rust to a paintable surface.

If you get it on the surrounding paint...it will not stick and will flake off.

Best to treat the rust...then lightly 'key' all around it before painting.

 

Bob

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raymondh Proficient

raymondh

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The reason good products disappear is that they damage the sales of competing, higher-priced products, so a competitor will buy the company making the superior product and re-size, re-label, re-price it so that it no longer damages the sales of the competitor's original product.

 

It saves on R&D too. Microsoft seldom develops anything itself. That would require brains. It just buys competitors.

Can you expand as this differs with your opinion

http://thenextweb.com/microsoft/2012/11/01/microsofts-rd-edge-it-outspent-apple-2-81-last-year-a-6-4-billion-difference/

Ray

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George94 Experienced

George94

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What MS classify as R&D is anybody's guess. My guess is that quite a chunk could be researching what companies to buy because they have some technology that MS is interested in.

 

But let's take the most recent acquisition, Nokia. Apple enjoy its market position today because (I believe) they designed a ground-breaking new smart-phone in-house. MS decided they needed to sell phones, but did they decide to design one? Of course not; they simply bought a company that already made them.

 

You will find the same pattern with a lot of MS's products, including software.

 

ETA: Not knocking the strategy; MS are not the only ones to do this, and of course Apple's operating system is a version of Linux. But it's a myth that MS is a great innovator.

Edited by George94
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John V Veteran

John V

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I think you are right with Trustan being the company that bought out Harry's product. It definitely was not phosphoric acid. From my memory of the discussion I had with him it was based on Tannic acid.....It turned the rust into iron tannate and your skin black (it used to last till it wore away). If you got it onto surrounding paint work it didn't seem to matter. During a drought on the Stort my then lady friends boat was firmly aground and the rudder totally exposed, I washed off the weed and then painted it with this compound. Needless to say it then rained, the water came up and that was the last seen of the rudder for many months. When it re-appeared I washed off the weed found no sign of rust and just slapped on a coat of paint.

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Phil Ambrose Veteran II

Phil Ambrose

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I think you are right with Trustan being the company that bought out Harry's product. It definitely was not phosphoric acid. From my memory of the discussion I had with him it was based on Tannic acid.....It turned the rust into iron tannate and your skin black (it used to last till it wore away). If you got it onto surrounding paint work it didn't seem to matter. During a drought on the Stort my then lady friends boat was firmly aground and the rudder totally exposed, I washed off the weed and then painted it with this compound. Needless to say it then rained, the water came up and that was the last seen of the rudder for many months. When it re-appeared I washed off the weed found no sign of rust and just slapped on a coat of paint.

So the upshot of this is use either Phosphoric Acid to convert the rust to Ferric Phosphate or use Tannic Acid to convert the rust to Iron Tannate, have to say I've not heard of Iron Tannate but as long as it works, that's the main thing.

Phil

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tree monkey Veteran II

tree monkey

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Phil Ambrose, on 29 Apr 2014 - 4:25 PM, said:

So the upshot of this is use either Phosphoric Acid to convert the rust to Ferric Phosphate or use Tannic Acid to convert the rust to Iron Tannate, have to say I've not heard of Iron Tannate but as long as it works, that's the main thing.

Phil

when felling Oak trees it is very common to find nails previously hammered into the stem, for some odd reason Oaks seem to suffer from this more than other species, i know not why, anyway i digress, to continue

surrounding these nails you will find a blue stain and that is due to the interaction of the steel in the nail and the high tannic acid content in the Oak, in fact these nails are often in a very good condition, apart of course from being hit by my chainsaw.

Oaks as a species have a very high Tannic acid content, so maybe this is the same reaction that is being used in the rust treatment?

 

not sure if this post is relevant but its an opportunity for me to get all geeky about treesbiggrin.png

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