Standedge tunnel clearance gauge

[b0atman]

We know that Standedge tunnel has height and width problems but why do you have to get right to the tunnel to find ot that you are too high or wide to pass through surely some means could be devised to have check gauges remote from tunnel with compensating device for different water levels ?

[john6767]

The dimensions are published so that you can check before planning a trip. See this link

 

http://canalrivertrust.org.uk/media/library/279.pdf

[b0atman]

But they change with water level ?

[john6767]

But they change with water level ?

True they would, but does the water level vary much. They state that those are the dimensions that the boat will be measured against at the tunnel, so presumably they allow for level fluctuation.

[Mac of Cygnet]

However I know of at least two boats that have supposedly checked out their dimensions but have been turned back on arrival.. Also be aware that one of the locks on the eastern side is very narrow. (Can't remember the details, but I did see one boat stuck and had to turn back).

[b0atman]

Exactly why they need to do gauging at canal approaches

[Paul C]

But isn't it not possible, because the place you'd want a boater themselves to check it is about 8 locks down (either side), so the variation in level on the summit isn't necessarily reflected here? I assume CRT check it themselves just before entry (to be sure), so effectively they are gauging the boats before they're actually in the tunnel.

[peterboat]

i passed one way but 6 months later coming back failed!!! pictures and threats just made them let me through barmy to say the least

 

peter

[Neil2]

However I know of at least two boats that have supposedly checked out their dimensions but have been turned back on arrival.. Also be aware that one of the locks on the eastern side is very narrow. (Can't remember the details, but I did see one boat stuck and had to turn back).

IIRC all they checked on our boat was the draught and the beam. A boat over 6'10" wide would not make it through the locks, so the only real consideration is draught and again, a boat drawing more than 3'3" would struggle to get as far as the tunnel.

 

So I can't see how a boat that made it to the tunnel entrance would be turned back, unless it had a very obviously "square" cabin, or maybe the water level was particularly low that day.

 

PS just read Peter's post, which suggests it is to do with fluctuating water levels?

Edited April 5, 2014 by Neil2

[b0atman]

maybe the WRG should go in with a Jack hammer ?

[Mac of Cygnet]

IIRC all they checked on our boat was the draught and the beam. A boat over 6'10" wide would not make it through the locks, so the only real consideration is draught and again, a boat drawing more than 3'3" would struggle to get as far as the tunnel.

 

So I can't see how a boat that made it to the tunnel entrance would be turned back,

 

 

 

Neither could the owners - they were not pleased.

 

Also, normally if you've been through before, you're not checked again, but I was last time on my tenth passage, apparently because I hadn't made it onto their new computer system.

 

 

maybe the WRG should go in with a Jack hammer ?

 

I believe some of the pinch points have had a bit of 'treatment'.

 

Edited April 5, 2014 by Mac of Cygnet

[mayalld]

i passed one way but 6 months later coming back failed!!! pictures and threats just made them let me through barmy to say the least

 

peter

Perhaps you had more weight on board first time.

 

We arrived for passage (way back in 2001) in our first boat that was very slab sided to be told that we were too wide at the roof.

 

With no way of becoming narrower, the only way to go was down. The next day they remeasured us and we were 4" lower than before.

 

That was a hard evenings work taking on ballast

[Neil2]

It's just occurred to me, - until relatively recently boats were convoyed through the tunnel rather than being individually navigated through. The dimensional requirements would presumably be more stringent if a boat was being towed/pushed through rather than having someone at the helm, but I wonder if they still use the same limits?

 

The boat we had at the time did have a very low roof and a lot of tumblehome but even so I recall thinking there was a fair amount of room to play with, I'm amazed at these stories of boats being turned around.

 

Must do it again soon to refresh the memory.

 

 

[peterboat]

Perhaps you had more weight on board first time.

 

We arrived for passage (way back in 2001) in our first boat that was very slab sided to be told that we were too wide at the roof.

 

With no way of becoming narrower, the only way to go was down. The next day they remeasured us and we were 4" lower than before.

 

That was a hard evenings work taking on ballast

Six months of CCing and walking miles everyday we had lost weight!! they let us through in the end but it was only because the Leeds Liverpool and Rochdale were closed we also filled the watertank good for a few inches

 

Peter

[John V]

I hesitated to enter this thread because my blood pressure is bound to go up......3 years ago I was intending to go that way on my long promised tour of Northern canals, I phoned up about details and was told we don't allow GRP boats there. When I asked why I was fed the most incredible list of obstructionist rubbish that I have ever come across. I was told that my boat was unreliable.....at the time it had a 2 cyl vetus diesel with less than 50 hrs on the clock. I was then told that my drive system was unreliable....it has a PRM gearbox with a conventional shaft and prop AND a weed hatch... I was then told I was too big.....25'6" length 6'4" beam 5' airdraft with well tapered cabin sides......then it was too fragile.....its built like a proverbial brick outhouse and is fitted with steel capped rubbing strakes for anyone who knows the breed its an Ormelite cruiser probably the best ever small grp cruiser designed to go anywhere on the canal system

 

its ridiculous that who can go where and when is decided by the prejudices of some narrow minded............!!!!!!!!!!!!!.

[Neil2]

I hesitated to enter this thread because my blood pressure is bound to go up......3 years ago I was intending to go that way on my long promised tour of Northern canals, I phoned up about details and was told we don't allow GRP boats there. When I asked why I was fed the most incredible list of obstructionist rubbish that I have ever come across. I was told that my boat was unreliable.....at the time it had a 2 cyl vetus diesel with less than 50 hrs on the clock. I was then told that my drive system was unreliable....it has a PRM gearbox with a conventional shaft and prop AND a weed hatch... I was then told I was too big.....25'6" length 6'4" beam 5' airdraft with well tapered cabin sides......then it was too fragile.....its built like a proverbial brick outhouse and is fitted with steel capped rubbing strakes for anyone who knows the breed its an Ormelite cruiser probably the best ever small grp cruiser designed to go anywhere on the canal system

 

its ridiculous that who can go where and when is decided by the prejudices of some narrow minded............!!!!!!!!!!!!!.

I'm fairly sure, but I may be wrong, that the ban on wooden and grp boats originated in the early days when they were considering the best way for boats to transit the tunnel. I'm sure one of the BW guys told me that they did try to take a wooden cruiser through but it struck something below the waterline and sank.

 

Bear in mind that Standedge tunnel is more of a cave than a tunnel, We were about a third of the way through when I remarked to our "pilot" that I could see very well why grp boats were not allowed, and though your cruiser might be more resilient than most, there are scores of boats built in the mid 1970's that are very lightly built and simply not up to the job.

[John V]

We were about a third of the way through when I remarked to our "pilot" that I could see very well why grp boats were not allowed, and though your cruiser might be more resilient than most, there are scores of boats built in the mid 1970's that are very lightly built and simply not up to the job.

 

each vessel should be assessed on is own merits, there are a lot of narrowboats around that are more fragile. My Ormelite has been driven head on at high speed into a granite buttress (not with me at the helm I hasten to add) it sheared off the trailer tow ring on the stem (13mm) but suffered no other damage apart from a lot of broken crockery

[furnessvale]

Perhaps you had more weight on board first time.

 

We arrived for passage (way back in 2001) in our first boat that was very slab sided to be told that we were too wide at the roof.

 

With no way of becoming narrower, the only way to go was down. The next day they remeasured us and we were 4" lower than before.

 

That was a hard evenings work taking on ballast

Depends on which pub and the quality of the ale!

 

George ex nb Alton retired

[mayalld]

Depends on which pub and the quality of the ale!

 

George ex nb Alton retired

Even I would struggle to drink 4 tons of ale!

[bassplayer]

However I know of at least two boats that have supposedly checked out their dimensions but have been turned back on arrival.. Also be aware that one of the locks on the eastern side is very narrow. (Can't remember the details, but I did see one boat stuck and had to turn back).

We recently went through the tunnel towards the East and the boat in front of us did get stuck as they exited the first lock. The CRT tunnel guys were brilliant and we got the boat out using a huge wooden lever (used between the side of the hull and the lock wall). The water level was also dropped in the pound.

 

It turned out that the beam was measured at the gunwales but due to some over-plating, the boat was slightly wider below.

[Mac of Cygnet]

It's just occurred to me, - until relatively recently boats were convoyed through the tunnel rather than being individually navigated through. The dimensional requirements would presumably be more stringent if a boat was being towed/pushed through rather than having someone at the helm, but I wonder if they still use the same limits?

 

 

 

 

 

Yes, AFAIK the dimensional requirements are the same. In the days when a 'train' of boats were pulled through, extreme protection was applied in the form of thick rubber sheets, but despite the speed being much less (it took over 3 hours), there was more damage and debris on the boats at the other end.

[b0atman]

surely after time all this debris being chipped off tunnel would make it easier

[john6767]

So is the view that checking your boat against the published dimensions is not going to guarantee that it will fit? When we get up north, perhaps next year I was thinking of giving the Huddersfield a go, but I know our boat is quite high, so I would have checked it against the publish dimensions before planning the route.

[Neil2]

So is the view that checking your boat against the published dimensions is not going to guarantee that it will fit? When we get up north, perhaps next year I was thinking of giving the Huddersfield a go, but I know our boat is quite high, so I would have checked it against the publish dimensions before planning the route.

Like a lot of "restricted areas" it isn't so much the height, from memory I think that is more of an issue on say the Harefield than Standedge, it's the tumblehome. The boat we had at the time had very pronounced tumblehome so we had no problems with the cabin sides, but the wooden taff rail, which had a vertical profile, got caught a couple of times.

 

I'd just like to repeat the point about the unique nature of Standedge, it is not at all like the tunnels most people are used to, it really is more like boating through a cave system with all the exposed rock and jagged edges, and that's why as Mac says when boats were taken through unmanned some form of damage was inevitable.

[Ian Mac]

Having been through the tunnel several times recently, I would class navigating this tunnel as one of the hardest tasks any boater can face on the English waterways. The difficulty arises from the way the tunnel was constructed, and its recent restoration. The original construction was that it was only lined in the softer rocks. This means that in the unlined hard rock sections, a power boat leaps around as the voids below the surface cause the water to surge about the hull, the helmsperson requires huge amounts of concentration in these sections.

Its not like batting through Harecastle where full power is the answer, and fluid dynamics keep you in the middle, almost the complete reverse, in places. Also its not straight there is a 38ft kink at one point, where they re-aligned the bores, never mind the sticky out bits of natural rock all aver the place.

The other feature is in law this is a brand new tunnel so all the grandfather rights enjoyed on the rest of the system and its tunnels do not apply. A new safety case has had to be agreed with the CMA ,HSE, NR, YFS, and heaven knows who else. That is why a chaperon accompanies each boat and a shadow follows you through, in one of the old railway bores, and a tunnel controller monitors your progress.

I'm not sure its fibreglass which is the problem but that they could have petrol engines, Petrol is a absolute No no.

Also I suspect having watched many a fibreglass boat and small wooden cruisers go through places such as Preston Brook tunnel over the years whether such a light boat could safely steer through Standedge, is in my opinion very questionable. Maybe in the future a special case will be made, for one to attempt it, and after its transit the situation may change, but I would suggest it will take a lot of paperwork to get that first transit. It took 12 years of persuasion to allow a boat to be legged through to come to pass, and that was one which was know to pass through relatively easily.

Standedge is the ultimate proof that boating is a contact sport. No normal narrowboat will transit that tunnel without making contact, the art is making it minimal

Also don't forget that the parallel railway tunnel has many trains passing through it and they (NR) are in the process of think about opening one of the single bores for additional capacity. Things may change here when electrification happens and the quantity of diesel fumes from trains are reduced,

Having said all that a passage through Standage is a must do for any true canal buff, in fact I would recommend doing it at least once in each direction, probably best started going west to east. that way your in the deep end to start with, or is that the higher levels of concentration first.

--

cheers Ian Mac