Gone and done it! What now...?

[Erin42]

I made this post back in august, asking for advice on narrowboat life. Since then I've visited friend's boats, bought books, read through lots of posts on this forum, and hired a boat with my partner over a long weekend in january (of all months).

 

We were grateful for the help of a couple of boaters in some particularly grizzly patches of weather, but otherwise did fine! And as a boater pointed out to me, as I was clutching the tiller with numb fingers and soaked through to the skin, if I can see the joy of it as a first-timer in a storm, imagine how much more I'll love it when I know what I'm doing and it's not raining!

 

I went to see a boat this weekend, and put in an offer today which I specified was dependant on a survey. My offer has been accepted, so now I need to organise a survey. Should I have a full survey, or is it cheaper to just have the hull and engine looked at? It's all happened a bit quickly, hah!

Should I ask the marina it's in, or shop around? How much might I expect to pay to survey a 35 year old 44ft boat? She was last surveyed in 2012, and was all good then.

 

 

 

 

 

[Stilllearning]

Welcome back to the forum.

Get it fully surveyed, by a surveyor of your choice, not one suggested by the broker/boatyard.

Cost will depend on the surveyor, but at least £300 at a guess. Go round with the surveyor, asking questions, generally being a nuisance. If the surveyor doesn't want you there, pick a different one.

On a boat that age hull thickness might be an issue.

Give us more details of the boat and others here will be able to give more advice.

Good luck.

ETA

Alan's costs are probably more accurate, I was thinking of my last survey, which was at mates rates.

Edited March 9, 2014 by Stilllearning

[Alan de Enfield]

Your surveyors costs will depend on what you want surveying, whereabouts in the country you are, if the boat is in the water or not.

 

If in the water you may well have to pay for the 'lift-out' and 'lift-back-in' costs.

 

Probably somewhere between £500 & £1000

[Erin42]

Hiya, the survey last done in 2012 measured the hull as being 3.8mm, shallower than the 5mm it had when it was made in 1980, but still sound. I've been quoted £200 for the use of the slipway at the marina, and it's due for a blacking so I'd get that done at the same time, hopefully, saving some pennies. I guess I'll just make a few phonecalls and get some quotes! If anyone can recommend anyone in the middlesex area that would be great, too.

 

Boat is a 44ft all steel cruiser stern springer (absolutely not what I was initially looking for but I fell in love as soon as I was on board!)

[Alan de Enfield]

Hiya, the survey last done in 2012 measured the hull as being 3.8mm, shallower than the 5mm it had when it was made in 1980,

 

When you say it was...... 3.8mm shallower than the 5mm ..... do you mean it measures 3.8mm or it is 3.8mm 'less than 5mm' (ie 1.2mm) ?

 

Before you pay out any money for surveys or anythng it may just be worth talking with a few insurance companies as apparently there are some who will not insure you if the thickness is below 4mm. I have not come across any but members on here have reported they have experienced it.

 

You would not have any problem insuring it third-party only (which is good enough to get your licence), but obviously your boat and contents would not be coverd in the event of any accident, sinking or whatever.

[John Williamson 1955]

Springers are okay, don't believe all the propaganda.

 

As far as hull thickness goes, it doesn't sound too bad, but what might cause a problem for insurance is any pitting taking the minimum below the magic 3mm. Or you could take a chance and just go for third`party insurance, which probably won't need a full survey doing. Either way, unless you're confident in your ability to assess and repair the engine and other bits, get a full survey, following the surveyor round asking questions, and make it clear to the vendor that the deposit must be returnable in full should the survey turn up anything that makes the boat unfit for your purposes. Also make it clear to the vendor and your surveyor that you will be taking guidance as to the value of the boat from your surveyor, and may wish to negotiate about the price.

 

As you seem to be intending to continuously cruise (Judging from your earlier thread), the reliability if the various systems on the boat is going to be much more crucial than it would be if you were looking for either a holiday cruiser or were going to be moored in a marina with power and other conveniences available.

Good luck, and welcome to the club.

[Richard10002]

Hiya, the survey last done in 2012 measured the hull as being 3.8mm, shallower than the 5mm it had when it was made in 1980, but still sound. I've been quoted £200 for the use of the slipway at the marina, and it's due for a blacking so I'd get that done at the same time, hopefully, saving some pennies. I guess I'll just make a few phonecalls and get some quotes! If anyone can recommend anyone in the middlesex area that would be great, too.

 

Boat is a 44ft all steel cruiser stern springer (absolutely not what I was initially looking for but I fell in love as soon as I was on board!)

How much is the boat? What is your max budget?

 

Our 45ft boat had 10mm hull when built, so the 9mm to 10mm readings at the survey in 2011 were of no concern whatsoever. It's a great boat, and had only very minor issues on the full survey, (£450 plus lift out). It was £18,000, but compared with similar boats asking up to around £25,000.

 

3.8mm is always going to be of concern to a buyer, even if it might last another 100 years in reality. I'd see if you can find another boat to fall in love with - unless it's very cheap, an there are no other issues - £10k or so might sound cheap to me.

[junior]

3.8mm would worry me. I know plenty of the old and bold will say people worry too much these days about hull thikness, but as a first timer buying a first boat I'd be concerned. I was told when my boat was surveyed that under 4mm is uninsurable.

 

The only thing you can do is speak to some insurance companies and find out from the horses mouth, then make your own mind up.

 

Did you put the offer in subject to survey?

[Paul C]

You could ask the marina for a list of surveyors they choose, then do forum searches on each of the surveyors on this forum to see if anyone else has used them, and recommends them. Yes, its the marina giving you a list but surveyors are typically acting independently and will vigorously defend their independence and integrity. But also be aware of the small print of the contract, and that surveyors are also good at wording their reports so as to cover their arses, and that there is no one overall trade body which covers marine surveying.

 

An alternate approach is to ask for recommendations on here in the particular geographic area you're in.

 

Be aware that if its a Springer it will (99% sure?) have a V-hull (its a shallow V) which adds complication to dry docking or slipping the boat in/out, so it will cost a little more than the fee for a flat bottom boat.

[junior]

Is the boat in Middlesex? I THINK I've seen people suggest Steve Hands for the south.

[paulgrant]

Tony Tucker in Hemel Hempstead is superb. 30+ years experience. Used him a couple of times now and very impressed.

[Erin42]

Thanks very much for the recommendations. The boat was an asking price of 15k, which I have offered subject to survey - as long as the hull is in good nick (I have been told it is a minimum of 3.8mm in places, most of the boat is still closer to it's original 5mm) then everything above water (heating, fittings, etc) is in very good condition. Also I love the layout and it would be great to move onto a boat that didn't need much done to it.

 

Spoke to a surveyor today over the phone who talked very frankly about springers, and what I could expect from the hull, but didn't put me off!

 

Had a call from the seller this evening, though, saying that one couple had offered 18k for her. This seems like a lot to me, and to him as well, so he is not sure if it will turn out to be a genuine offer. I've made it clear I can't offer any more, so we'll just have to see what happens. Oh dear

[Paul C]

Refundable deposit would/should have taken it off the market, therefore the couple would have been unable to offer 18k, or anything else.......

[DeanS]

My last boat had a survey 5yrs ago. The hull measured 3.5 in places. It had a good diagram of all test points. When I sold it last year, it had another full survey. The test points showed exactly the same values in most places.....i.e ...almost no deterioration in the past 5 yrs. It was a 20yr old boat. (I think) I miss her.

[Clifford]

Yes, paying a deposit is meant to be a demonstration of good faith on both sides. With a deposit in hand an honourable seller or broker would not listen to another offer until you had had a survey and made a decision. Can you trust anything they say about the boat after that? Once you had booked and paid for a survey, the survey money is non refundable, so to get gazumped after that point is expensive.

 

CanI pass on a few tips?

 

Prepare a list of prospective surveyors BEFORE you ring the first one. And do ring, not just email. It's good to get a feel whether you'll get on with them. And ask specifically if they are happy for you to be there. If getting them to say yes is at all difficult, ring the next one on the list. You'll never have a better opportunity to get to know your boat's little secrets from an expert. I really enjoyed my day out with my surveyor.

[Paul G2]

Thanks very much for the recommendations. The boat was an asking price of 15k, which I have offered subject to survey - as long as the hull is in good nick (I have been told it is a minimum of 3.8mm in places, most of the boat is still closer to it's original 5mm) then everything above water (heating, fittings, etc) is in very good condition. Also I love the layout and it would be great to move onto a boat that didn't need much done to it.

 

Spoke to a surveyor today over the phone who talked very frankly about springers, and what I could expect from the hull, but didn't put me off!

 

Had a call from the seller this evening, though, saying that one couple had offered 18k for her. This seems like a lot to me, and to him as well, so he is not sure if it will turn out to be a genuine offer. I've made it clear I can't offer any more, so we'll just have to see what happens. Oh dear

 

The seller either has or has not accepted your offer. If he has accepted your offer, and if you have paid a deposit, then the seller should not be looking at other offers - and you should make it clear to the seller and the broker that that is exactly the conduct you expect from them!

 

If you don't have a written, accepted offer with a deposit then you need to get that done before you spend any money on this boat.

 

ETA: BTW - Now that I think about it, sellers often tell buyers how they have someone waiting in the wings just dying to buy the boat for more money. They try to instill the fear of loss into you. It's a negotiating tactic.

Edited March 22, 2014 by Paul G2

[Erin42]

Hello folks, well... I put in the offer and it was accepted, the day after I viewed the boat. Didn't make any arrangements to pay a deposit. Called seller the day after to sort it out who said straight away that someone had offered 3k more than me! (3k above the asking price of 15k... so he was suspicious that this might just be a timewaster anyway)

I didn't budge on my price because I thought 15k was a fair price for the boat (35 year old springer, in good condition but needing cosmetic work) and then all quiet for nearly two weeks so I assumed it had been sold. But seller got back in touch with me the other day to say that the boat was back on the market because the 18k offer had fallen through.

 

But in that time she's clocked up some more offers, so someone is going for a second viewing tomorrow... and they might buy there and then. Sigh!

 

Anyway, I've learnt my lesson. If I'm serious about an offer, I need to make sure the buyer is serious about accepting!

 

Fingers crossed it might still swing my way.

[John Williamson 1955]

Hello folks, well... I put in the offer and it was accepted, the day after I viewed the boat. Didn't make any arrangements to pay a deposit.

That's your problem. If you'd paid a refundable deposit contingent on a satisfactory survey, the boat should have been taken off the market immediately. I've missed out on a few boats over the last few decades by not being fast enough getting the cheque book out.

 

With any luck the other potential buyers may pull out, and you'll get it. Fingers crossed....

[Peter Reed]

Hello folks, well... I put in the offer and it was accepted, the day after I viewed the boat. Didn't make any arrangements to pay a deposit. Called seller the day after to sort it out who said straight away that someone had offered 3k more than me! (3k above the asking price of 15k... so he was suspicious that this might just be a timewaster anyway)

I didn't budge on my price because I thought 15k was a fair price for the boat (35 year old springer, in good condition but needing cosmetic work) and then all quiet for nearly two weeks so I assumed it had been sold. But seller got back in touch with me the other day to say that the boat was back on the market because the 18k offer had fallen through.

 

But in that time she's clocked up some more offers, so someone is going for a second viewing tomorrow... and they might buy there and then. Sigh!

 

Anyway, I've learnt my lesson. If I'm serious about an offer, I need to make sure the buyer is serious about accepting!

 

Fingers crossed it might still swing my way.

Erin,do not be worried, the sellers behavior is the exactly the same as many lower gutter class estate agents that I have had dealings with over many years. Next step: You will be contacted and told that an offer of 15,000 GBP has been received = the same as yours,and would you like to up the offer a diddly bit? Do not up the offer,but lower it by 1500 or 2000 GBP,and then see what happens. Be Brave.

[Erin42]

He seems like a sound, honest, bloke, and so I hope he doesn't ask for a higher offer because I offered exactly what I could pay. He hasn't mentioned how much the guy viewing her tomorrow has offered, though, so here's hoping that it's just a bit of a shambles and that he's not trying to "instill the fear of loss" in me, as Paul said above...

I have enough experience of estate agents to make me suspicious of everyone who has something to sell, though, so can't be taken for a ride that easily

[comfortably numb]

Good on you for refusing to budge on the price and whatever happens try not to let your heart rule your head. Even though it would be a huge disappointment if you missed out on a boat you've set your heart on there will be others,

[patty-ann]

It all sounds bit iffy to me, then I am the sort who has to check n recheck facts. I would take this one as learning curve, but if you do get it I would have the full survey for peace of mind. Use this time to check out what insurance companies say and draw up a list of surveyors and Good Luck.

[Erin42]

Well, looks like the springer's truly gone this time! Shame, but there are lots of boats about I can see myself living on, I just have to be quicker to talk money next time.

Thanks for all your advice and tips so far. If anyone sees any nice 40ft boats in the south for around 20k keep me in mind (although the idea of buying one in yorkshire and then taking several weeks off work to drive it to london does appeal...)

[lampini]

Well, looks like the springer's truly gone this time! Shame, but there are lots of boats about I can see myself living on, I just have to be quicker to talk money next time.

Thanks for all your advice and tips so far. If anyone sees any nice 40ft boats in the south for around 20k keep me in mind (although the idea of buying one in yorkshire and then taking several weeks off work to drive it to london does appeal...)

Shame, but that must mean that there's a much better boat waiting just around the corner! I would continue to look "oop north" if I were you, you do seem to get more boat for your buck up there IMHO.. and the chug down south would be a fab adventure - at the end of which you'd know that bote inside out!

Best of luck to you..

[Erin42]

So many great boats I've seen are 'oop north' and not being able to drive is making it difficult!

 

I'm going to have a look at this boat on Thursday, actually: http://www.boatshed.com/narrowboat_40ft_cruiser_stern-boat-170343.html

and the previous owners did quite a bit of research on her history, too... http://www.canalscape.net/Total%20Eclipse/Total%20Eclipse.htm#specification which makes interesting reading.

 

I just think the layout is quite odd. To have the bed next to the kitchen, and then the living area at the bow... Seems mighty strange.