River Thames Trip

[Neildudman]

Hi All,

 

One of my ambitions is to travel down the Thames on a Narrowboat.

 

Two problems, first one is that my family are to young and inexperienced to complete the trip and secondary its gonna be a while before we own our own boat!.

 

So.......I am on the blag for a trip!.

 

If anyone is looking for a crew member to join them for the day on such a trip I am your man. If you need a extra pair of hands that is great news. Perhaps when the procession hits on the 15th next month?

 

Pm or email me.

 

Cheers

 

Neil

 

Ps: I can come bearing gifts!

Edited December 6, 2006 by Neildudman

[anhar]

Hi All,

 

One of my ambitions is to travel down the Thames on a Narrowboat.

 

Two problems, first one is that my family are to young and inexperienced to complete the trip and secondary its gonna be a while before we own our own boat!.

 

So.......I am on the blag for a trip!.

 

If anyone is looking for a crew member to join them for the day on such a trip I am your man. If you need a extra pair of hands that is great news. Perhaps when the procession hits on the 15th next month?

 

Pm or email me.

 

Cheers

 

Neil

 

Ps: I can come bearing gifts!

Unfortunately the tidal Thames authority has more or less destroyed the ability of the majority of narrowboats to travel between Brentford and Limehouse through the historic centre of London because to do so now requires marine VHF radio together with the requisite boat and operator's licences. Hardly any narrowboats have this because it makes no sense to incur all those costs and hassles just for a journey that is likely to be made only extremely rarely by most, particularly for those who are not around the London area. Since most narrowboaters are not in this region, and don't otherwise need VHF, the effect is that this classic bit of boating, maybe something they intended to do only once in their whole life as a memorable experience, is now lost to them. An enormous shame in my view.

 

regards

Steve

[Neildudman]

Hi Steve,

 

I knew about the Radio (VHF) from this forum - but I live in hope and maybe, just maybe my dream trip could come true!!!!!

 

Neil

[Hairy-Neil]

Unfortunately the tidal Thames authority has more or less destroyed the ability of the majority of narrowboats to travel between Brentford and Limehouse through the historic centre of London because to do so now requires marine VHF radio together with the requisite boat and operator's licences.

regards

Steve

 

But there are exemptions for organised floatillas such as the protest cruise Neil mentions.....

[Space_Cowboy]

Does the same rules apply from Brentford up the Thames ?, am thinking of making the trip from the GU up the Thames to Windsor next year.

Edited December 6, 2006 by Space_Cowboy

[WJM]

"Unfortunately the tidal Thames authority has more or less destroyed the ability of the majority of narrowboats"

 

Outside of an organised group, all you have to do is buy (borrow) a small handheld VHF set and do a one day course/exam - if you are the kind of person that has a narrowboat and is interested in the tidal Thames that should be of interest anyway. The tideway is potentially very dangerous. I have been down it many times and find it very scary when you get a strong flow combined with the big commercial boats. I have not taken my NB down there yet, I want to build up a bit more experience before I take on this biggie of a trip. Having a VHF radio on board means having constant real time information coming through. Additionally you have ability to summon help instantly if you are in trouble. This is surely a good thing. Personally I like the idea that the 200 tonne rubbish barge coming towards me on powerful tide can instantly let me know its intentions.

 

Brentford to Teddington is exempt from the VHF radio requirement - it is nowhere near as challenging as the tideway proper - you just have a very short hop to Richmond half lock where it becomes semi-tidal, then an easy run to Teddington where the tidal flow never gets really strong. The commercial boats on this stretch are smaller and much less agressive.

[DHutch]

We took EmilyAnne up the thames form limehouse to the IWA rally this year.

- This was before the change in requirment, but it was really great, and i defonatly would do it again, even if it required a days "training" and a handheld VHF.

 

I can see why they have made changes to rules, as there are a lot of idots on the canals, and on busy tidal water the potential for things to go wrong is significant.

- However, we split the heliming about 50/50 (with the other busyly tending to the fire!) and i cant say that at any point it was other than fairly stright forward given a basic degree of thought. Although it was reassuring to have my grandad there.

 

 

Daniel

 

Some photos taken on the themas here...

http://www.canalworld.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=5547

[anhar]

We took EmilyAnne up the thames form limehouse to the IWA rally this year.

- This was before the change in requirment, but it was really great, and i defonatly would do it again, even if it required a days "training" and a handheld VHF.

 

I can see why they have made changes to rules, as there are a lot of idots on the canals, and on busy tidal water the potential for things to go wrong is significant.

- However, we split the heliming about 50/50 (with the other busyly tending to the fire!) and i cant say that at any point it was other than fairly stright forward given a basic degree of thought. Although it was reassuring to have my grandad there.

Daniel

 

Some photos taken on the themas here...

http://www.canalworld.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=5547

Hello Daniel

 

The changes to the rules make little sense to me, if "idiots" are the reasoning behind it, because they are length related. (The boat length that is, not the idiots' length) Most plastic cruisers won't be affected, neither will the shorter narrowboats.

 

Am I to presume then that boats over the maximum VHF free length are automatically helmed by idiots whilst those under it are equally automatically steered by ace boatsmen?

 

The truth is that it is yet another example of bureacracy being inserted where it is not required. This is the trend that has been going on for decades and which permeates almost all walks of life. All sorts of activities which people were once free to follow and enjoy themselves have been destroyed by this culture of control, with the oft quoted "Health & Safety" being given as the ostensible reason. You'll know the sort of thing I mean, examples are legion and it has become a joke. An unfortunate joke because it has backfired upon us.

 

The real reason is not H&S of course, it is the natural desire of bureaucrats to control people. In a decent democracy this trend in human nature is usually kept in check. Unfortunately we have permitted those who govern us too much licence and consequently this situation has come into existence. It is now too late to reverse it, the H&S stranglehold is irreversible. There are now so many bureaucrats employed in exercising it and dreaming up new ways to manifest it that it has become self replicating. People don't usually arrange for their own jobs to terminate. Turkeys don't vote for Christmas. On the contrary they try and extend their areas of influence because it gives them even more power. Thus we see the H&S menace ever extending itself over the population. It's a kind of fascism.

 

regards

Steve

Edited December 7, 2006 by anhar

[anhar]

X

Edited December 6, 2006 by anhar

[WJM]

I dont agree Anhar - a generation ago taking a canal boat down the tideway was beyond the scope of the average person - I am very 'average' and it is now possible for me. A generation ago you could take it for granted that virtually all boats down there were commercial and under the control of experienced professional boatmen - not anymore. The length stipulation is simple enough, the longer the boat, the harder to steer, the easier to get caught broadside... My first week in London and on the Thames was the week of the Marchioness disaster, rules changed then in response - this time the PLA are getting their changes into place before a disaster forces them.

[DHutch]

Hello Daniel

 

The changes to the rules make little sense to me, if "idiots" are the reasoning behind it, because they are length related. (The boat length that is, not the idiots' length) Most plastic cruisers won't be affected, neither will the shorter narrowboats.

Yep, its stupid. But what are we going to do about it?

 

 

Daniel

[WJM]

Well moving on gentlemen, and ladies,

 

Bad idea or otherwise, some advice please. Is the course in question called "Marine Radio Short Range Certificate Course"?

 

And can anyone recommend a cheap handheld VHF set that is compliant?

[John Orentas]

I dont agree Anhar - a generation ago taking a canal boat down the tideway was beyond the scope of the average person - I am very 'average' and it is now possible for me. A generation ago you could take it for granted that virtually all boats down there were commercial and under the control of experienced professional boatmen - not anymore. The length stipulation is simple enough, the longer the boat, the harder to steer, the easier to get caught broadside... My first week in London and on the Thames was the week of the Marchioness disaster, rules changed then in response - this time the PLA are getting their changes into place before a disaster forces them.

 

 

I agree with Anhar, we keep falling into the same trap why do we always have this assumption that 'Experienced professional boatmen' (or equivalents in other walks of life) are the ultimate in human evolution and by definition only they may get involved with the perceived preserve of 'the experts'. On the other hand a person who owns, controls and perhaps has designed his own boat is in some way sub-human on an intellectual level, he must confine himself to the periphery of all activities and my be allowed only as a spectator or at best a helper.

 

You mention the Marchioness disaster, all of the people involved were 'Experienced professional boatmen', not a single sub human involved. People have been navigating the tidal Thames in their own boats for generations and usually in boats far less suited to the conditions than a modern narrowboat.

[WJM]

I dont think there was any suggestion that anyone was less-than-human - the Marchioness disaster serves to prove that regulations need to move and evolve to meet new demands.

 

I dont think you will find this new regulation an infringement of your personal rights, but merely an insistence that you have an incredibly useful tool at your disposal. The river is still there for your enjoyment, now you just need to bring a radio. Think of it as a display of respect for other river users and for the emergency services.

[WJM]

some advice please. Is the course in question called "Marine Radio Short Range Certificate Course"?

 

And can anyone recommend a cheap handheld VHF set that is compliant?

[Keeping Up]

some advice please. Is the course in question called "Marine Radio Short Range Certificate Course"?

 

And can anyone recommend a cheap handheld VHF set that is compliant?

Yes that's the correct course. I did it about 3 years ago, it was a fun day and not very difficult with the certificate awarded at the end. The certificate lasts a lifetime.

 

I then bought a cheap fixed VHF radio on eBay and installed it on Keeping Up. It gives a much greater range than the handhelds, and of course I can listen to it hands-free.

 

Allan

[blackrose]

some advice please. Is the course in question called "Marine Radio Short Range Certificate Course"?

 

And can anyone recommend a cheap handheld VHF set that is compliant?

 

I think there's another thread on VHF radios.

 

Yes, that is the course - personally I didn't think the one I went on in Southampton was much good, but I have the certificate.

 

I have a handheld Silva waterproof VHF radio. http://www.sailgb.com/p/silva_s12_marine_handheld_vhf_radio/ but don't buy it from these people. I got the lot apart from the spare battery for about £80. Try this site http://www.mailspeedmarine.com/ProductDeta...78-cfc1f8e4a63a

 

I figured for the amount I was going to use it, a handheld was all I needed. It avoids the hassle of fitting the unit and ariel and because my steering position on my cruiser stern is at least 6ft away from the stern doors a fitted VHF radio would have been impractical anyway. However, I do think it's worth paying a bit extra for a waterproof handheld as you could easily get cought in some rain.

 

If you can afford and can justify the cost the ICOM range is supposed to be the best. This is their cheapest http://www.mailspeedmarine.com/ProductDeta...78-cfc1f8e4a63a

 

If you really want to go cheap (and compliant) try this Cobra, I don't think you'll get one much cheaper http://www.mailspeedmarine.com/ProductDeta...98-fcd3ad44027e It's not waterproof but it has a waterproof case so it should do the job.

 

By the way, someone mentioned borrowing a handheld VHF, but I'm afraid if a callsign has been registered with the vessel, the VHF radio should never leave the boat and in fact it is illegal to do this unless perhaps in an emergency. (Some handheld VHF operators have chosen not to register a callsign and it is then possible to take the radio from boat to boat).

 

Despite the cries of bureaucracy and arguments over whether or not a VHF radio is necessary on the tidal Thames, according to the new regs if you join up with another boat or group of boats it is only the lead boat that needs to carry VHF radio. So it's still within the realms of possibility that anyone can do this trip even without a VHF, all it means is that you have to be a bit more organised.

Edited December 8, 2006 by blackrose

[blackrose]

Yes that's the correct course. I did it about 3 years ago, it was a fun day and not very difficult with the certificate awarded at the end. The certificate lasts a lifetime.

 

I then bought a cheap fixed VHF radio on eBay and installed it on Keeping Up. It gives a much greater range than the handhelds, and of course I can listen to it hands-free.

 

Allan

 

How does the hands free work Allan?

 

I think the range will depend on your ariel height (but I suppose this will usually be higher than the average person!)

 

I'm not sure if range is really much of an issue in Central London where you're surrounded by tall buildings anyway - nobody's VHF signal is going to pass over these obstacles.

Edited December 8, 2006 by blackrose

[WJM]

Blackrose - thanks neighbour - I like the little reflective corners - I never touch them on my way in and out

[Keeping Up]

How does the hands free work Allan?

 

I think the range will depend on your ariel height (but I suppose this will usually be higher than the average person!)

 

I'm not sure if range is really much of an issue in Central London where you're surrounded by tall buildings anyway - nobody's VHF signal is going to pass over these obstacles.

It's only hands-free because I have an extension speaker mounted on the control panel next to the throttle. I can't talk hands-free, only listen, because I have to hold the microphone (I did make myself a hands-free microphone once, for amateur radio in the car. It wasn't difficult). It The radio itself is in a cupboard just inside the doors, but for more serious use I pull it out to hang below the sliding hatch so I can see the display.

 

The main reason for good range is that the aerial is not just a little rubber-duck on top of the unit (as in a hand-held) but is a steel whip on the roof. You can do this with a magnetic mount if you don't want to drill holes. The aerial is not one of the expensive marine ones (which break if you hit them on a low bridge) but is an amateur radio one, designed for use on a car, with a couple of inches snippped off the end. This gives superb range, and with the higher power available from a fixed unit, gives excellent results. From Sharpness our pilot was happily able to talk to the coastguards at Barry (30-40 miles away), and this summer between Brentford and teddington this year the Woolwich signal was 100% clear (we didn't speak to them) so you could probably use it in central London easily.

[Howard]

Despite the cries of bureaucracy and arguments over whether or not a VHF radio is necessary on the tidal Thames, according to the new regs if you join up with another boat or group of boats it is only the lead boat that needs to carry VHF radio. So it's still within the realms of possibility that anyone can do this trip even without a VHF, all it means is that you have to be a bit more organised.

 

Remember you will need to give the PLA 7 days notice of your intention to do this ....

 

It's not just a case of waking up and asking around the marina if anyone fancies a trip upriver and doing it on the spur of the moment .....

 

But you'll be fine to tag on the end of a group who have already pre-arranged this ....

 

Good luck

[Neil D]

Hi

 

As yet no one looks like doing this trip for he foreseeable..... shamereally.

 

Ah well, remember me please!!

[WJM]

Neil,

 

I am planning this one for early next year - just need to sort out my VHF Cert/Hardware - will bear you in mind when I am sorted and ready

Edited December 11, 2006 by WJM

[Neil D]

WJM,

 

Thank you!.

 

That would be just the best!.

 

I'll keep an eye out for your message!

[Badger_1]

Saw a DVD on ebay today regarding boating down the Thames. Item: 120063870503