River Thames Trip

[Neil D]

Sold!

[Badger_1]

Sold!

 

Think there was two. Glad you got one.

[blackrose]

Remember you will need to give the PLA 7 days notice of your intention to do this ....

 

It's not just a case of waking up and asking around the marina if anyone fancies a trip upriver and doing it on the spur of the moment .....

 

But you'll be fine to tag on the end of a group who have already pre-arranged this ....

 

Good luck

 

Howard, last time I did it (last June), I booked with the Brentford & Limehouse lockkeepers but I don't think I phoned the PLA (or VET) until I was on the river. Have things changed?

Edited December 11, 2006 by blackrose

[Howard]

Howard, last time I did it (last June), I booked with the Brentford & Limehouse lockkeepers but I don't think I phoned the PLA (or VET) until I was on the river. Have things changed?

 

 

Hi Blackrose ...

 

The legislation only came into effect on the 1st September 2006 , so if you did it in June it wouldn't have affected you ...

 

Here is an extract from the new PLA regs ..... i have highlighted in red the relevant part....

 

4. Use of VHF Radio

 

(1) This direction shall apply to : Reporting Vessels, Passenger Boats, Tugs, Bunker Vessels, Vessels engaged in fishing and vessels of 13.7m or more in length overall ..

 

except :

 

a ) recreational narrowboats greater than 13.7m in length overall navigating between Brentford and Teddington and

 

b ) other leisure vessels greater than 13.7m in length overall navigating to the west of Bow Creek , provided that ;

 

i) they are travelling in a company or a flotilla

ii) they are not the lead vessel of that company or flotilla; and

iii) there is a lead vessel, which complies with the requirements of this Direction and is able to communicate immediately and effectively with all other vessels in the compnay or flotilla.

 

(2) A recreational narrowboat excepted under Direction 4. (1) a ) above, shall call London VTS by telephone and report their estimated time of departure from the point of departure and estimated time of arrival at their destination, and again report when they have reached their destination.

 

(3) Any vessel or group of vessels planning to exercise the exemption under Direction 4. (1) b ) above, shall either individually or through the lead vessel :

 

a ) provide at least 7 days notice to the Harbourmaster of their intention to navigate on the tideway;

 

b ) comply with any conditions for their passage required by the Harbourmaster ; and

 

c ) report, through the lead vessel, to London VTS prior to commencing navigation othe the tideway, provdiding details of vessels involved, their destination and estimated time of arrival. Upon completion of the passage the lead vessel shall inform London VTS of their arrival.

 

(4) On every vessel to which this Direction applies, at all times when underway or at anchor there shall be :

 

a ) an operational VHF radio capable of communicating with a Harbourmaster at the VTS centres.

 

b ) an effective continuous listening watch maintained on the VHF channel appropriate to that part of the Thames in which it is navigating or lying.

 

c ) compliance with the communications requirements set out in these Directions for the use of VHF radio and,

 

d ) manning and operation of the VHF radio by a suitably qualified person, capable of communication effectively in English.

 

Good luck !!

Edited December 12, 2006 by Howard

[blackrose]

I thought it was just new VHF requirements & I didn't realise there were all these other changes too.

 

Thanks for letting us know.

 

Mike

[Howard]

No worries ....

 

See you at Teddington soon !

[Hairy-Neil]

(3) Any vessel or group of vessels planning to exercise the exemption under Direction 4. (1) b ) above, shall either individually or through the lead vessel :

 

a ) provide at least 7 days notice to the Harbourmaster of their intention to navigate on the tideway;

 

Sounds to me like the plan is to generally discourage the use of the exemption.....

[blackrose]

Well, if you're organising this trip with others, I think you'd need to plan ahead, whether or not your boat has VHF.

 

(3) Any vessel or group of vessels planning to exercise the exemption under Direction 4. (1) b ) above, shall either individually or through the lead vessel :

 

a ) provide at least 7 days notice to the Harbourmaster of their intention to navigate on the tideway;

 

Ahh, sorry I've just read it properly - so as my boat has VHF I don't need to give 7 days notice. That requirement is only for boats wishing to use the exemption.

Edited December 13, 2006 by blackrose

[Hairy-Neil]

That requirement is only for boats wishing to use the exemption.

 

Why the need for 7 days notice?

 

Its a punitive measure to close a loophole. What it has effectively done is made it so you can't loiter at Limehouse awaiting a friendly boater with the necessary radio equipment that is happy for you to tag along.

[WJM]

perhaps loitering at limehouse was not the desired effect

[WJM]

VHF License sorted - now all I need is the radio itself.

 

A simple one day training course, you could never operate one of there radios without proper training, so time well spent in my opinion. I can see that this will be an excellent safety tool when I do make the trip - any problems going on around me and I am instantly alerted - that has to be good!

 

I am thinking I might go for a 'wired in' device to save faffing about with batteries - mount it on the ceiling just inside the hatch - anyone got any thoughts on this?

[Keeping Up]

I am thinking I might go for a 'wired in' device to save faffing about with batteries - mount it on the ceiling just inside the hatch - anyone got any thoughts on this?

A wired-in one is a good idea. Mine has two positions; if I'm just monitoring one channel, and will only be wanting to reply on that channel, it mounts inside the cupboard that is just inside my back doors, with a connection to an extension speaker outside (it's a cruiser stern). But the wires to the radio are long enough that for more serious use (multi-channel scanning etc) I can pull it out and hang it from the underside of the sliding hatch (at the front, otherwise the hatch wouldn't slide back properly). That way I can see the display easily, and I can bring it close to me by sliding the hatch.

 

Allan

[bottle]

mount it on the ceiling just inside the hatch - anyone got any thoughts on this?

 

Yes mind your head.................................................alright I'm going

[WJM]

"By the way, someone mentioned borrowing a handheld VHF, but I'm afraid if a call-sign has been registered with the vessel, the VHF radio should never leave the boat and in fact it is illegal to do this unless perhaps in an emergency. (Some handheld VHF operators have chosen not to register a call-sign and it is then possible to take the radio from boat to boat).

"

 

 

Checking into this - I dont think this is the case - as I understand it, a handheld set is never registered to a particular vessel because it does not have a MMSI Number (or any DSC Facilities) and as such the radio set itself is never identified - the only identification that happens is the operator's verbal use of call sign (name of the boat) - so a handheld is entirely portable between boats.

 

 

 

That said, the operator still needs to have the operators license - though to be honest, you would never be able to work out how to use the radio without doing the course that bestows the license anyway.

[blackrose]

"By the way, someone mentioned borrowing a handheld VHF, but I'm afraid if a call-sign has been registered with the vessel, the VHF radio should never leave the boat and in fact it is illegal to do this unless perhaps in an emergency. (Some handheld VHF operators have chosen not to register a call-sign and it is then possible to take the radio from boat to boat).

"

Checking into this - I dont think this is the case - as I understand it, a handheld set is never registered to a particular vessel because it does not have a MMSI Number (or any DSC Facilities) and as such the radio set itself is never identified - the only identification that happens is the operator's verbal use of call sign (name of the boat) - so a handheld is entirely portable between boats.

That said, the operator still needs to have the operators license - though to be honest, you would never be able to work out how to use the radio without doing the course that bestows the license anyway.

 

According to my Ship Radio Validation Document which came with my licence from Offcom, my vessel is registered to carry & use a portable VHF radio. So I was wrong about it never leaving the boat and you're right, I can take my radio off the boat but if I want to use it on another boat then it too must be licensed for VHF use.

 

This basically rules out anyone borrowing a VHF radio unless their boat is registered and displays a VHF licence disc from Offcom, and that the person is also a licenced operator. I would imagine that anyone who has these bits of paper would also have their own radio.

 

I think the original post I responded to was suggesting just borrowing a radio and taking it onto an unregistered vessel.

 

So if you haven't bought one yet & want to borrow mine for your next trip that's fine!

Edited January 8, 2007 by blackrose

[Keeping Up]

According to my Ship Radio Validation Document which came with my licence from Offcom, my vessel is registered to for use of a portable VHF. So you're right, I can take the radio off the boat but if I want to use it on another boat it too must be licensed for use of a VHF radio. This basically rules out anyone borrowing a VHF radio unless their boat is registered and displays a VHF licence disc from Offcom, and that person is also a licenced operator. I would imagine that anyone who has these bits of paper would also have their own radio.

 

But if you haven't bought one yet & want to borrow mine for your next trip that's fine!

The licence for a portable VHF radio authorises "covers the use of one hand held portable VHF or VHF/DSC radio transceiver with an internal antenna and power supply that you intend to use on more than one vessel (regardless of those vessels' Licence status)"; the person operating it is "required to either hold personally or be supervised by someone that holds the relevant marine radio operator's certificate".

 

So it is OK to loan a portable set but not a fixed one.

 

Allan

[blackrose]

The licence for a portable VHF radio authorises "covers the use of one hand held portable VHF or VHF/DSC radio transceiver with an internal antenna and power supply that you intend to use on more than one vessel (regardless of those vessels' Licence status)"; the person operating it is "required to either hold personally or be supervised by someone that holds the relevant marine radio operator's certificate".

 

So it is OK to loan a portable set but not a fixed one.

 

Allan

 

Yes, but I think that's an option where you choose the portable to be registered with a T sign rather than a callsign so that you can transfer it to another boat. My portable is registered with a callsign and I have the same Ship Radio Validation document as yourself. If you look at Ships Radio on that website you can see it covers portables too.

Edited January 8, 2007 by blackrose

[Grumpy Bear]

You may not be aware that from 1st Dec 06, the Ships Radio Licence from Ofcom is FREE provided that you apply online at the Ofcom website, and it is now a lifetime licence (details updated at least every 10 years). It used to be £20 per year. This licence covers all the radio equipment On Board whilst it is on board (whether or not you own it). When you apply for the Ships Radio Licence (no reason not to) declare one Fixed VHF and/or one Portable VHF on board to cover all eventualities.

 

The Portable licence covers the use of a handheld radio on a vessel which does not have its own Ships Radio Licence (and also allocates a special MMSI to the portable). Otherwise the use of a portable is covered by the main Ships Radio Licence.

 

But at least one person on Board must hold the Marine Radio Short Range Certificate and directly supervise the use of the radio.

 

Full details are on my website at Walton Training

 

For the reasons already stated in earlier posts I would always recommend going for a fixed set with a decent aerial even if the aerial is just on a magnetic mount for one trip. But you do not need to have a modern DSC radio because Thames Coastguard does not have DSC. Voice is all that is needed.

 

As a complete aside, I did a course with the RNLI in Poole back in October, and another student on the same course was the Deputy Coxswain of the Thames Lifeboat. I asked him whether they got called out to many Narrowboats on the tidal Thames, and he replied "Yes, every week". I don't think he was joking, its just some people don't plan or think!!! But that is no reason not to do the trip with proper preparation.

 

Regards

 

Mike

[blackrose]

I got my licence free but it's only valid for 1 year?

[Howard]

As a complete aside, I did a course with the RNLI in Poole back in October, and another student on the same course was the Deputy Coxswain of the Thames Lifeboat. I asked him whether they got called out to many Narrowboats on the tidal Thames, and he replied "Yes, every week". I don't think he was joking, its just some people don't plan or think!!! But that is no reason not to do the trip with proper preparation.

 

Hi Mike,

 

You don't remember his name do you or what station he was from ?

 

My father is Hon Sec of the Teddington Lifeboat , and the crew there are always off to Poole on some course or another ....

 

He wasn't joking ..... they visit quite a few narrowboats each year , one of my previous posts tells the story of one that got caught on Richmond bridge on a flood tide and the lifeboat crew attended .....

 

Hope all is well

[WJM]

Keeping the questions coming (!) - I now have a handheld/portable;

 

If I register it as a portable can I use it on my boat? (and if so does this meet the new PLA requirement for the tideway?)

 

Do I then need to register the boat itself? (Remember, I am not planing to use DSC so I wont need an MMSI Number)

 

 

- before you ask the obvious question, I was hoping to keep the handheld totally 'portable' because I run (non-narrowboat) boating competitions on the tideway and thought the handheld might be useful for that role too.

[Keeping Up]

Keeping the questions coming (!) - I now have a handheld/portable;

 

If I register it as a portable can I use it on my boat? (and if so does this meet the new PLA requirement for the tideway?)

 

Do I then need to register the boat itself? (Remember, I am not planing to use DSC so I wont need an MMSI Number)

- before you ask the obvious question, I was hoping to keep the handheld totally 'portable' because I run (non-narrowboat) boating competitions on the tideway and thought the handheld might be useful for that role too.

I believe the answers are Yes, Yes, and No, as long as you have an operators certificate

[Lady A]

Just borrowing a radio is not a good idea. Do that course as the radio procedures are important. If the sh.. hits the propeller you need to be able to give clear consise details. A handheld GPS to give an exact position is also going to be a benifit.

 

 

I would be more than happy to assist with anyone wanting to take their boat on the Thames, have experiance from Teddington down to Greenwich.

 

Can bring hand portable and fixed radio. The fixed has a magnetic mounting antenna that stands on the roof and has a lot more power.

 

I hold RYA Yachtmaster, Crusing Instructor, Powerboat and Inshores Instructors ticket as well as the radio licence. I use to teach offshore racing (3 Fastnets).

 

No fees but I enjoy my food and drink......