NigelMoore

NCP to replace CART?

29 posts in this topic

Islington Council propose a solution to its perceived canalside problems.

 

http://friendsofregentscanal.org/events/2013/2013-10-10/Motion-to-Council.html


And a perfectly reasonable response from the charity - which cannot be compelled to act outside their powers as the Councillor suggests [speaking from a profound depth of ignorance], that they should

 

http://www.islingtontribune.com/news/2013/oct/charity-urged-act-over-loud-music-late-night-drinking-and-boat-smoke-canal

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"Proposes that the whole operation should be taken over by National Car Parks (NCP)"

 

What's all that about then?

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So islington council are going to lobby for the clean air act to apply to the waterways , the interests of 118 rich residents in islington could affect what you can burn in your stove! It's a shame that boaters seem better at arguing among themselves, than presenting a unified voice .

Regards kris

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So islington council are going to lobby for the clean air act to apply to the waterways , the interests of 118 rich residents in islington could affect what you can burn in your stove! It's a shame that boaters seem better at arguing among themselves, than presenting a unified voice .

Regards kris

 

You mean they're going to lobby for an additional byelaw to apply in their jurisdiction? Or to have a new act of parliament, to amend the clean air act, which of course applies over a much wider area (England and Wales I think)? There's a massive difference between the two!!!

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't know I'm just reading from what the councillor in islington has proposed at a council meeting.

Regards kris

 

I think there's merit in getting interested/worried if they are trying to remove the exemption for boats from the clean air act. If its just in their area or in a specific area (this particular moorings with issues) then I'll leave it to others who are local or more directly involved to get worried.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"Proposes that the whole operation should be taken over by National Car Parks (NCP)"

 

 

Should we just laugh at that, or be very worried?

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I can see their point - they obviously feel that CRT aren't enforcing even basic rules on mooring/overstaying, which they perceive as part of the problem. NCP, being a commercial company, aren't a million miles away in concept of what they do and seem to be able to do it profitably. However they probably don't deal with people living in cars in their car parks........

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

moorings are wide open to some CRT desk jockey putting the enforcement out to a private company, when that happens we will be ****** ( i cant put any of the letters in that word on here )

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'd say if one council gets the clean air act to apply to canals in its area, then it's the thin end of the wedge. Let alone getting Ncp to run the canals. I suppose it means the busy bodies will need some sort of particulate meter tho.

Regards kris

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The proposition respecting the Clean Air Act would alter the legal requirement nationwide, because it is a national statutory Act, not a regional byelaw.

 

Actually, whether CART farms out enforcement or does it on its own, is irrelevant; as a ‘creature of statute’ it remains bound by those statutes, so that anything attempted beyond those limitations is challengeable in a court of law. The Islington councilor is talking through his non-existent hat. CART cannot police that which they have no power to police – the sort of things the residents are complaining of are controlled by other authorities, not CART, and those other authorities include his Council.

 

What boaters really do need to be worried about [because it would cast aside the legal restraints described in the above paragraph], as CART seek to placate all the complainers, are the machinations of the evil wizard behind the chairs of all the executive, carefully constructing his variation of a waterways ‘Ram doctrine’. It is already out in the open aborning, and being swallowed by certain oversight authorities.

 

Interestingly - but this is off the top of my head and I can’t vouch for the accuracy of my memory on this while my head is full of other things just now – the Transfer Order deleted from the relevant statutes applying to BW, the clause allowing for local authority take-overs.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't especially want the right to pollute the environment. I am a bit surprised that boaters seem to think there is a special case for them. This all looks very selfish at first sight.

And don't most boaters burn smokeless fuel anyway? Enlighten me, someone, I am baffled.

Edited by Coelum Ruat
1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

To me it's not really about the right to pollute or not. I burn mainly well seasoned wood hardly any smokeless fuel at all. But I'd see this as another bit of legislation to be used by people like this 118(who signed the petition in islington)to make shure no one was able to live on a boat near there exspensive property. (Think of all the property developments next to the waterways)

I don't know the situation on these moorings personally,but if the anti social behaviour that is being alleged is actually happening then I think the local authority and cart already have enough legal powers to sort it out.without trying to push through more legislation.

Regards kris

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Point taken about stove fuel. And well-seasoned wood burns quite smokelessly I know. And you evidently agree we should not be polluting the air, as responsible people.

I think it is unclear who is causing the problems. Are they actually boaters? Or others, 'visiting' the towpath? In any event, I can't see how the wealth of local residents makes a jot of difference. Should these boats be moved on, to moor near us poor folk? I don't think I would like that.

You may well be right that there is enough legislation around to sort this out by force. But there are moral arguments here, too. Who has the moral high ground? Hard to know.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The initial link should now show additions, including the Labour Party’s political newsletter issued during the canal festival on 1st September.

 

Headed “Chaos and antisocial behaviour on the towpath”, it states:

 

We have had a growing volume of complaints about noisy smelly generators on canal boats, dangerous antisocial cycling on the towpath, reckless games, illegal drinking and all-night parties on ramshackle unlicensed boats.

“Since the Tories turned British Waterways into the Canal and River Trust (CaRT) the problems have got far worse. Your local councillors have spent a lot of time lobbying CaRT to try and persuade them to introduce cycle calming on the towpath, keep the bins emptied, take persistently troublesome boats out of the water, and to introduce noise and air pollution environmental standards for generators on boats.

“CaRT appear to believe that if they ask nicely people will behave. They seem to have no idea about enforcing their own regulations. Local councillors will continue to pressurise for these changes and we encourage local residents to complain to CaRT whenever they experience a problem.”

 

Have to say, I’m with CART on this one, although they are getting back a bit of their own medicine. The responses to most of the initial complaints at least, where officers turned up in person to appraise the problem, was that it didn’t exist [at least to an actionable extent]. The reams of correspondence and reports were posted earlier under the Noel Road thread [&/or the GLC one].

 

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/complaints_concerning_boats_at_a

 

It is one of the peculiarities of the BW culture still imbuing CaRT, that even such information, that shows them in a helpful light regarding the furore over the Noel Road moorings, had been dishonestly withheld, despite the FoI request having been made to them first.

 

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/complaints_about_boats_at_angel

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

CaRT have started this all ready. Market Harborough leisure moorings in the basin now have a restriction on then that new contracts are only for boat not using solid fuel. Market Harborough is not even a smokeless zone.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We had to spend a fortune to covert my bus to Euro3 so we could go into London and avoid a £400 a visit charge (2 x £200 as we always leave after midnight)

Then 2 years later they changed it to Euro4 so we had to spend another £5,000 on an exhaust system.

If (when) they change it to Euro5 we would have to spend £35,000 minimum on a new engine and management system.

So it's not just your wood burners you should be worried about!

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We had to spend a fortune to covert my bus to Euro3 so we could go into London and avoid a £400 a visit charge (2 x £200 as we always leave after midnight)

Then 2 years later they changed it to Euro4 so we had to spend another £5,000 on an exhaust system.

If (when) they change it to Euro5 we would have to spend £35,000 minimum on a new engine and management system.

So it's not just your wood burners you should be worried about!

 

That's okay with me so long as they only have these kind of rules in London - my solution being to avoid going into London.

 

My concern is if Islington Council somehow extend the clean air act, which will have a national impact.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.