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What Length of Ropes and is there a best type


DandGNWales

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21 hours ago, DHutch said:

Polyester rope is the stronger, soft to touch, and more expensive synthetic ropes. Very common in the sailing world.

Staple spun Polypropylene is a nice to handle light weight rope which will float, and is what most 'synthetic hemp' boat ropes are made from.
Split film Polyprop. on the other hand is the cheap blue or orange sheeting/farming grade rope core as per baler band and the line.

Nylon rope is very springy, soft to the touch, but also slippy and will not hold all knots well and and such I am not a fan, but at the end of the day its your call.

 

Daniel

Meant to ask....would you not go for traditional hemp?

thanks again Dhutch

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16 minutes ago, The Grumpy Triker said:

Think I need to find somewhere to go and get my hands on some and have a good feel, but given that I am as I am I'll settle for trying out different types of rope at some location or other :D

Meant to ask....would you not go for traditional hemp?

thanks again Dhutch

You should be able to get a feel of a rope at quite a few canal side shops, or other good chandlers, although many will not have a huge range.

To be honest, any of them will work fine, the only real way you can go wrong is to get something stronger than the fittings, such that if it all goes wrong rather than the rope breaking in a reasonable controlled fashion, you pull the fitting off and turn it into a medium sizes missile. 

Traditional hemp as in the material made from plant fibre is not really used any with the availability of synthetic ropes, obvious issues include the fact it will rot if left outside, but I also expect its expensive in comparison to other options.

Daniel

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6 minutes ago, DHutch said:

You should be able to get a feel of a rope at quite a few canal side shops, or other good chandlers, although many will not have a huge range.

To be honest, any of them will work fine, the only real way you can go wrong is to get something stronger than the fittings, such that if it all goes wrong rather than the rope breaking in a reasonable controlled fashion, you pull the fitting off and turn it into a medium sizes missile. 

Traditional hemp as in the material made from plant fibre is not really used any with the availability of synthetic ropes, obvious issues include the fact it will rot if left outside, but I also expect its expensive in comparison to other options.

Daniel

Fair point - as a liveaboard it will be outside most of the time. Reading between the lines I guess it is worth paying the extra for the Polyester?...thanks for the info as I had this in my mind as the Polyprop type....the springy nylon drove me mad on a friends boat as no matter how hard I (a not so Wiley boater) tied it, we seemed to bounce around when moored, not good for the beer :mellow:

can I be cheeky and ask a slightly off the point question?

IF the survey 2 weeks today is good and I get my first boat, what do I do with the water?...it will have been sat too long to use and think it would need a flush through. Are there any tricks for doing this as quickly as possible?...combine it with a toilet flush through?

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4 hours ago, The Grumpy Triker said:

Fair point - as a liveaboard it will be outside most of the time. Reading between the lines I guess it is worth paying the extra for the Polyester?...thanks for the info as I had this in my mind as the Polyprop type....the springy nylon drove me mad on a friends boat as no matter how hard I (a not so Wiley boater) tied it, we seemed to bounce around when moored, not good for the beer :mellow:

It very much depends, we have used polyester for a while, but a lot swear by polyprop (staple spun, not split film obviously) such as the synth hemp. which I have used on other boats and liked, so we have just bought a half reel of that and will be making a pair of new ropes (centreline is still fairly new) shortly. Not as nice to throw, as its lighter, and not quite as soft, but it floats which is a bonus for avoiding the prop and because its cheaper and less strong you can go to a larger diameter (nicer on the hands) without risk of breaking fittings. You will be fine with either, and splicing your own eye in the end is not hard if you follow a good guide like animated knots.

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4 hours ago, The Grumpy Triker said:

IF the survey 2 weeks today is good and I get my first boat, what do I do with the water?...it will have been sat too long to use and think it would need a flush through. Are there any tricks for doing this as quickly as possible?...combine it with a toilet flush through?

Welcome to start another thread on it, but I would just run it out till the tank is there abouts empty and refill. The tank and pipework should be light excluding, so it wont have done anything nasty, likely just taste a bit flat and plasticy. That's all we do after its been stood for 6 months over winter, some use milton but I have never seen the need.

Daniel

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On 2017-5-21 at 18:29, Neil2 said:

Hanging your mooring line on the tiller is the easiest way to say I Am A Wally to the outside world.  So called synthetic hemp is polypropylene the only good reason to use it is if you want a line that floats other than that it's inferior to nylon, or polyester come to that, but maybe cheaper.  Polyprop is good for fake rope fenders but it isn't as nice to handle as nylon.  

I disagree with your comment regarding hanging the stern rope on the tiller. I have used this method for many years and never lost the rope off yet. As a frequent single-hander I find this the best place for fast access when required. If it is suitably coiled and hooked around an appropriate tiller pin there is no way for it to fall off.

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9 hours ago, DHutch said:

Welcome to start another thread on it, but I would just run it out till the tank is there abouts empty and refill. The tank and pipework should be light excluding, so it wont have done anything nasty, likely just taste a bit flat and plasticy. That's all we do after its been stood for 6 months over winter, some use milton but I have never seen the need.

Daniel

Seconded. But if you're really unwilling to drink it then use bottled water until the tank is empty. 

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16 hours ago, DHutch said:

Welcome to start another thread on it, but I would just run it out till the tank is there abouts empty and refill. The tank and pipework should be light excluding, so it wont have done anything nasty, likely just taste a bit flat and plasticy. That's all we do after its been stood for 6 months over winter, some use milton but I have never seen the need.

Daniel

Thanks for that

 

6 hours ago, WotEver said:

Seconded. But if you're really unwilling to drink it then use bottled water until the tank is empty. 

Cheers, was just unsure how long to give it really.

Will just use the bottled for until the taste settles :)

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7 minutes ago, The Grumpy Triker said:

Cheers, was just unsure how long to give it really.

Will just use the bottled for until the taste settles :)

There have been several threads on the subject, the last one quite recent. They show that...

  • Some folk drink the tank water, always have, don't have a problem  
  • Some folk treat the system periodically (Bleach/Milton/Something Else) and then drink it
  • Some folk fit a water filter and then drink it
  • Some folk would never dream of drinking their boat's water

Take your pick.

 

 

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Just now, WotEver said:

There have been several threads on the subject, the last one quite recent. They show that...

  • Some folk drink the tank water, always have, don't have a problem  
  • Some folk treat the system periodically (Bleach/Milton/Something Else) and then drink it
  • Some folk fit a water filter and then drink it
  • Some folk would never dream of drinking their boat's water

Take your pick.

 

 

Think I'll be happy to drink it but was just a bit wary that the water system and tank contents have been static for quite some months now.

I'll give it a once through and a treatment on the next fill, after that I think I'll take the risk :)

 

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15 hours ago, rgreg said:

I disagree with your comment regarding hanging the stern rope on the tiller. I have used this method for many years and never lost the rope off yet. As a frequent single-hander I find this the best place for fast access when required. If it is suitably coiled and hooked around an appropriate tiller pin there is no way for it to fall off.

Until the tiller pin parts into a brass bit and a steel bit, as happened to one of ours a few years ago. (I caught the brass bit after one bounce off the deck, but the steel pin went over the stern, and had to be replaced. The new one is pinned to the brass :) ) 

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 2017-5-23 at 23:56, Iain_S said:

Until the tiller pin parts into a brass bit and a steel bit, as happened to one of ours a few years ago. (I caught the brass bit after one bounce off the deck, but the steel pin went over the stern, and had to be replaced. The new one is pinned to the brass :) ) 

That's a lot of pins!

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  • 1 month later...
On 22/05/2017 at 19:32, The Grumpy Triker said:

Reading between the lines I guess it is worth paying the extra for the Polyester?...thanks for the info as I had this in my mind as the Polyprop type....the springy nylon drove me mad on a friends boat as no matter how hard I (a not so Wiley boater) tied it, we seemed to bounce around when moored, not good for the beer 

I suspect this was more down to how he was mooring rather than the rope he was using. Head and stern lines tend to work best with an angle of about 45 degrees to the bank. If tied at 90 degrees they have little resistance to forward or backward movement.  Did he also use the centre line? When the boat moves even just a bit, which it will because it's a boat, strain coming onto this line tends to pull the boat over and cause a rocking response. This is why many of those who pop up to shout "Slow down!" at every passing boat are often met with the reposte "Would you like me to show you how to moor your boat properly?"  Not by me, obviously, as no-one ever shouts that at me as we gently glide by with barely a ripple. ;)

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On 5/23/2017 at 08:31, rgreg said:

I disagree with your comment regarding hanging the stern rope on the tiller. I have used this method for many years and never lost the rope off yet. As a frequent single-hander I find this the best place for fast access when required. If it is suitably coiled and hooked around an appropriate tiller pin there is no way for it to fall off.

This is a variation I use, the stern line in a rope loop hanging off the swans neck. In all the years I've used this never had the stern line fall in and get wrapped around the prop. Not "kosher" but it works for me.

DSCF1738.jpg

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6 hours ago, Sea Dog said:

I suspect this was more down to how he was mooring rather than the rope he was using. Head and stern lines tend to work best with an angle of about 45 degrees to the bank. If tied at 90 degrees they have little resistance to forward or backward movement.  Did he also use the centre line? When the boat moves even just a bit, which it will because it's a boat, strain coming onto this line tends to pull the boat over and cause a rocking response. This is why many of those who pop up to shout "Slow down!" at every passing boat are often met with the reposte "Would you like me to show you how to moor your boat properly?"  Not by me, obviously, as no-one ever shouts that at me as we gently glide by with barely a ripple. ;)

Good point, angle the ties correctly and it shouldn't move too much...love the comments :D....still struggling over what to buy and now it is getting urgent!

I do have big hands and been around and felt a few ....confused.com atm 

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4 minutes ago, The Grumpy Triker said:

..still struggling over what to buy and now it is getting urgent!

I do have big hands and been around and felt a few ....confused.com atm 

Ok, then get 2 x 10m of 14mm polyester in black so they don't show the muck too much. It's a good all round rope at a good all round length.  14mm is easy to handle and won't overwhelm your cleats as some thicker ones might. You'll not go far wrong with those and it'll not break the bank either. Then, at your leisure and with something to compare against, you can evaluate your needs from your own experience of either finding too many occasions when you could do with something thicker or longer or just finding out they're about right.  You can always cut a bit off if you find them too long, but through a ring and back onboard, or passing a loop through a ring and both the loop and the end coming back onboard, are both methods you'll use quite a bit so all 10m will get used.

For your centre line, a length of climbing type rope will do - after all, you're not going to moor with it, are you. Make it long enough so that you can loop the middle of it through your centre line anchor point and each half will just nicely reach the steering deck, but short enough so they won't reach and foul the prop if you drop the line in the cut. This way you'll have a handling line to port and starboard and, because it's one piece, you can extend one line should you find yourself somewhere that needs the extra length. This method hasn't failed me yet.

There, you now have a plan. Other people will have different ideas, but too many ideas is why you're dithering! :D

  • Greenie 2
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13 minutes ago, Sea Dog said:

Ok, then get 2 x 10m of 14mm polyester in black so they don't show the muck too much. It's a good all round rope at a good all round length.  14mm is easy to handle and won't overwhelm your cleats as some thicker ones might. You'll not go far wrong with those and it'll not break the bank either. Then, at your leisure and with something to compare against, you can evaluate your needs from your own experience of either finding too many occasions when you could do with something thicker or longer or just finding out they're about right.  You can always cut a bit off if you find them too long, but through a ring and back onboard, or passing a loop through a ring and both the loop and the end coming back onboard, are both methods you'll use quite a bit so all 10m will get used.

For your centre line, a length of climbing type rope will do - after all, you're not going to moor with it, are you. Make it long enough so that you can loop the middle of it through your centre line anchor point and each half will just nicely reach the steering deck, but short enough so they won't reach and foul the prop if you drop the line in the cut. This way you'll have a handling line to port and starboard and, because it's one piece, you can extend one line should you find yourself somewhere that needs the extra length. This method hasn't failed me yet.

There, you now have a plan. Other people will have different ideas, but too many ideas is why you're dithering! :D

Why indeed :).....what if black is not my colour....might clash with....!? :D

Good advice.

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2 minutes ago, The Grumpy Triker said:

Why indeed :).....what if black is not my colour....might clash with....!? :D

Good advice.

Well, as you've a pretty standard leisure boat, it'll at least work pretty well until you are in a position to come up with something better for yourself or possibly it might stand the test of time. Colour entirely optional - I just mention it so you don't buy nice white yachty stuff and then get yourself in the dwang with Mrs Triker for mucking up her washing machine twice a week (assuming it has a 'bitumen' program).

Exciting times, Grumps - I hope it all works out well for you.

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  • 1 year later...
On ‎02‎/‎10‎/‎2013 at 09:11, Neil2 said:

On a big heavy widebeam that double braid stuff probably makes sense as it's supposed to be stronger (actually i thought it was less elastic than three strand nylon) but at three times the price of three strand it's a bit of a luxury on a narrowboat. As you say though, it runs through fairleads etc a lot better which is why it's pretty much de rigeur on yachts and big grp cruisers.

 

I've always used two centre ropes but that's laziness on my part - I found that whenever we came in to moor the centre line would always be on the wrong side and when you try and flip it over it gets snagged on a mushroom vent or some other detritus on the roof (I said I was lazy) once I lassoed the boathook and sent it flying into the cut. Anyway for the cost of a second rope it makes life a bit easier and certainly a good idea on a WB.

I don't agree that two centre lines are lazy, they're sensible. I have two lines on my 55' NB. Everyone's had a centre line slide into the water at some time. if their length is just shy of the distance from the centre eye to the prop there's no danger of them fouling.

 

Just realized it was a v old post, my points are still valid

Edited by Slim
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On 01/10/2013 at 08:17, Neil2 said:

Most ropes are three strand nylon these days, 12-14mm should be ok for your boat.

 

Graham makes a good point about the centre line - I've done that trick, you should coil and secure the line but inevitably it ends up just being thrown on the roof where it can slide off and will for sure head for the prop like a moth to a light bulb.

 

Don't get ropes from the chandlers - do I have to say why? Buy long lengths from one of the yacht suppliers on ebay and learn how to splice them - you need to do an eye splice and a back splice, it's easy to learn - youtube, many sites on the internet, and very satisfying. Of course you can just "cauterise" nylon rope to stop the ends fraying but splicing looks so much better.

 

As for length, well I'm one of those who believes a rope can't be too long (excepting the centre line) but plenty are too short.

Cauterise? Surely that's a Butane splice.

Phil 

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On 22/05/2017 at 19:32, The Grumpy Triker said:

 

IF the survey 2 weeks today is good and I get my first boat, what do I do with the water?...it will have been sat too long to use and think it would need a flush through. Are there any tricks for doing this as quickly as possible?...combine it with a toilet flush through?

Best time to do this is when you are out of the water for survey, run a hosepipe from the bottom of the tank to the ground, give it a good suck to start it off and let it empty......go and do something else...it could take hours.

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On 31/07/2017 at 20:24, Sea Dog said:

Ok, then get 2 x 10m of 14mm polyester in black so they don't show the muck too much. It's a good all round rope at a good all round length.  14mm is easy to handle and won't overwhelm your cleats as some thicker ones might. You'll not go far wrong with those and it'll not break the bank either. Then, at your leisure and with something to compare against, you can evaluate your needs from your own experience of either finding too many occasions when you could do with something thicker or longer or just finding out they're about right.  You can always cut a bit off if you find them too long, but through a ring and back onboard, or passing a loop through a ring and both the loop and the end coming back onboard, are both methods you'll use quite a bit so all 10m will get used.

For your centre line, a length of climbing type rope will do - after all, you're not going to moor with it, are you. Make it long enough so that you can loop the middle of it through your centre line anchor point and each half will just nicely reach the steering deck, but short enough so they won't reach and foul the prop if you drop the line in the cut. This way you'll have a handling line to port and starboard and, because it's one piece, you can extend one line should you find yourself somewhere that needs the extra length. This method hasn't failed me yet.

There, you now have a plan. Other people will have different ideas, but too many ideas is why you're dithering! :D

Good advice and just one other comment to add. Please avoid Nylon as a mooring rope ad mentioned in earlier posts. It is ideal for an anchore rope but when used fort mooring the elasticity of nylon can be dangerous if the rope parts under tension. It may spring back with force and could cause injury.

 

Howard

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On 21/09/2018 at 07:42, matty40s said:

Best time to do this is when you are out of the water for survey, run a hosepipe from the bottom of the tank to the ground, give it a good suck to start it off and let it empty......go and do something else...it could take hours.

Cheers Matty....better late than never ??...I posted this a year or so ago but good advice!...wish I'd thought of it, although I did get an accidental alternative due to the water pump failing on the day I picked the boat up....so we happened to clear the water tank out and start again....so similar ?

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