Stern types.

[nb Innisfree]

I think driving standards have improved over the 49 years I've been on the road, better lane discipline and generally more spatial awareness. One skill that has disappeared though is overtaking, long lines of cars following a slow car/bus/lorry with no attempt to overtake when a clear stretch appears.

 

ETA: I think a lot of bad driving years ago came from pre-war drivers who never passed a test and therefore missed out on some vital training and carried on in the same old way despite changing road conditions. My late dad springs to mind bless him!

Edited September 10, 2013 by nb Innisfree

[Guest]

I think driving standards have improved over the 49 years I've been on the road, better lane discipline and generally more spatial awareness. One skill that has disappeared though is overtaking, long lines of cars following a slow car/bus/lorry with no attempt to overtake when a clear stretch appears.

 

ETA: I think a lot of bad driving years ago came from pre-war drivers who never passed a test and therefore missed out on some vital training and carried on in the same old way despite changing road conditions. My late dad springs to mind bless him!

My late dad too! I think he "learned" to drive during the war whilst in the army.His famous quotes re. cars:

A good driver doesn't need brakes, and never buy a car that weighs less than one ton.

 

When I was young I thought he was the best driver in the world, but I shudder when I think back. I still have an 8mm cine film which he took with a hand held camera whilst driving to work. He never had an accident in all of his many years of driving, though he saw loads in his rear view mirror.

 

I think poor or lack of overtaking comes out of tailgating, in that the following vehicle simply has no line of vision around the vehicle in front. Apolice motorcyclist taught me that years ago. I have never understood tailgating, and though i don't claim to be a good driver, it is one thing I never do.

[Orca]

I helped to steer a friend's 70ft Trad a few months back, on a fairly lengthy journey - it was an uncomfortable experience, compared to my Cruiser. Of course, it's an apple and orange scenario and purely user exclusive (as always). Big wallowey Cruiser for me anyday. . .

[Barry]

I think poor or lack of overtaking comes out of tailgating, in that the following vehicle simply has no line of vision around the vehicle in front. Apolice motorcyclist taught me that years ago. I have never understood tailgating, and though i don't claim to be a good driver, it is one thing I never do.

 

I agree. I very often see two HGVs tailgating even on single carriageway roads. To me that is far too long a distance to get past safely because once you are committed to the overtake there is nowhere to escape to. On some bendy roads a car tailgating a truck is too risky as well.

 

After a while you get an HGV doing 40 followed by a string of cars all bunched up, with some bobbing in an out looking for any opportunity to floor it and risking the overtake on a string of vehicles despite blind bends and brows. When I see that I settle back with a good gap between me and the queue and just wait for them to sort themselves out.

[Chertsey]

I'm quite a stern type, I'm told.

[carlt]

[Nine of Hearts]

[picture]

 

Shurely you meant:

 

[homer2911]

Could I ask for some input on your favoured type of stern, advantages and disadvantages?

 

I plan on mostly being on my own, and on genuinely continuously cruising.if that helps. I have looked into this already and gained some useful info but live input would be appreciated

 

Thank you.

 

Could I ask for some input on your favoured type of stern, advantages and disadvantages?

 

I plan on mostly being on my own, and on genuinely continuously cruising.if that helps. I have looked into this already and gained some useful info but live input would be appreciated

 

Thank you.

 

Every trad stern steerer I ever saw was either standing - fancy that for hours on end? - or seated on the roof, sometimes with a cushion, but always having to turn their head at right angles to face the direction of travel. Neither posture looks anywhere near as comfortable as sitting down on a well-constructed cruiser stern seat. Dangers of swinging the tiller? Never happened to me in 20 years of cruising. Give me comfort every time.

[Tobymonster]

Every trad stern steerer I ever saw was either standing - fancy that for hours on end? - or seated on the roof, sometimes with a cushion, but always having to turn their head at right angles to face the direction of travel. Neither posture looks anywhere near as comfortable as sitting down on a well-constructed cruiser stern seat. Dangers of swinging the tiller? Never happened to me in 20 years of cruising. Give me comfort every time.

I've got a trad stern and I normally sit on the roof opposite the controls. This means I can see the gauges and operate the morse lever to change engine speed with my foot. This time of year a wind proof coat is all I need on my upper body, but I still in shorts, my legs are warm enough dangling down into the back cabin / engine room / utility room / workshop / shed or whatever you want to call it. If my neck starts to get stiff then I change sides, stand or even get a stool from the cabin and sit on that out of the way of the tiller, (although I must admit with the back doors shut it could get the impression that I'm standing).

 

Strangely enough, I get many dirty looks when I assume my normal position, my friendly nods and waves to my fellow boaters on their cruiser sterns being replied with a look of pity whilst they on their jack jones, fully seated in the comfy chair*, alone in the wide expanse of their fully sociable 'patio area', the trophy dog that's even fecked off inside to cuddle up with mum rather than die of exposure!

 

*is it the chair that's comfy or the many layers on the rump of the grumpy git at the tiller? Never could work that one out!

Edited September 11, 2013 by Tobymonster

[homer2911]

I've got a trad stern and I normally sit on the roof opposite the controls. This means I can see the gauges and operate the morse lever to change engine speed with my foot. This time of year a wind proof coat is all I need on my upper body, but I still in shorts, my legs are warm enough dangling down into the back cabin / engine room / utility room / workshop / shed or whatever you want to call it. If my neck starts to get stiff then I change sides, stand or even get a stool from the cabin and sit on that out of the way of the tiller, (although I must admit with the back doors shut it could get the impression that I'm standing).

 

Strangely enough, I get many dirty looks when I assume my normal position, my friendly nods and waves to my fellow boaters on their cruiser sterns being replied with a look of pity whilst they on their jack jones, fully seated in the comfy chair*, alone in the wide expanse of their fully sociable 'patio area', the trophy dog that's even fecked off inside to cuddle up with mum rather than die of exposure!

 

*is it the chair that's comfy or the many layers on the rump of the grumpy git at the tiller? Never could work that one out!

Judgemental or what? I too can operate the Morse control with my foot, and neither I nor our 'trophy' dog have come anywhere near to dying of exposure - he wanders up and down to the cruiser deck, no matter what the weather. Grumpy git? I don't recognise that description at all. I can choose to stand, or sit comfortably, wearing whatever is appropriate for the weather, for hours on end, without getting a crick in my neck, and fully protected from wind or rain. Alone on my 'patio area' on my 'jack jones'? Nah! The wife comes and goes, as does the dog, and we have a small round table on a Desmo leg for cups of tea, the odd slice of cake on a bit of kitchen towel, my glasses, the map, what have you. With a trad stern, you are almost certainly on your 'jack jones'. or else you have a crew member who is forced to a) stand on the gunwhale or b )sit uncomfortably on the roof. If you prefer a trad stern, that's fine, but don't denigrate or belittle those who prefer other boat designs. Incidentally, which design of stern is safer on tidal rivers or the Bristol Channel, or other wide, fast-flowing waterways?

Edited September 11, 2013 by homer2911

[comfortably numb]

Have a Greenie from me Homer. I agree with every word.

[comfortably numb]

 

I agree. I very often see two HGVs tailgating even on single carriageway roads. To me that is far too long a distance to get past safely because once you are committed to the overtake there is nowhere to escape to. On some bendy roads a car tailgating a truck is too risky as well.

 

After a while you get an HGV doing 40 followed by a string of cars all bunched up, with some bobbing in an out looking for any opportunity to floor it and risking the overtake on a string of vehicles despite blind bends and brows. When I see that I settle back with a good gap between me and the queue and just wait for them to sort themselves out.

 

There's no excuse for tailgating whatever the vehicle. Regarding HGV's doing 40 mph on single carriageway roads, that's the law and IMO a stupid one in that 40 is the limit whatever the standard of road. There are many decent 'A' roads where the limit for HGV's could be upped to 50 mph and this could be safer because many car drivers who currently find 40 too slow would probably be content with travelling behind a truck at 50.

 

The problem at the moment with the 40 limit is that car drivers get frustrated and then take undue risks trying to overtake. I speak from experience as I do part time truck driving (artics) and on good 'A' roads I often do 50 mph and find that far less car drivers try risky manoeuvres to overtake me.

 

Edited to add that whether in a truck or a car I always leave sufficient space between me and the vehicle in front so that others can nip in front of me when overtaking the line of traffic. I wish others would but many don't as Bazza has pointed out.

 

Sorry it's off topic but I didn't start it, LOL

Edited September 11, 2013 by comfortably numb

[Tobymonster]

Judgemental or what? I too can operate the Morse control with my foot, and neither I nor our 'trophy' dog have come anywhere near to dying of exposure - he wanders up and down to the cruiser deck, no matter what the weather. Grumpy git? I don't recognise that description at all. I can choose to stand, or sit comfortably, wearing whatever is appropriate for the weather, for hours on end, without getting a crick in my neck, and fully protected from wind or rain. Alone on my 'patio area' on my 'jack jones'? Nah! The wife comes and goes, as does the dog, and we have a small round table on a Desmo leg for cups of tea, the odd slice of cake on a bit of kitchen towel, my glasses, the map, what have you. With a trad stern, you are almost certainly on your 'jack jones'. or else you have a crew member who is forced to a) stand on the gunwhale or b )sit uncomfortably on the roof. If you prefer a trad stern, that's fine, but don't denigrate or belittle those who prefer other boat designs. Incidentally, which design of stern is safer on tidal rivers or the Bristol Channel, or other wide, fast-flowing waterways?

Good for you. I can only only say as I see, just like you have. I have inherited a trad stern and you have obviously gone out and bought a cruiser. I don't think that I'm judgemental at all, I was mearly implying with a bit of querky post that I don't have a crick in my neck. But you have told me I have. Twice.

As for tidal river cruising, I genuinely do not know which is the safest. Can you tell me why before I get the plasma cutter out?

Edited September 11, 2013 by Tobymonster

[PhilR]

Could I ask for some input on your favoured type of stern, advantages and disadvantages?

 

I plan on mostly being on my own, and on genuinely continuously cruising.if that helps. I have looked into this already and gained some useful info but live input would be appreciated

 

Thank you.

 

If you will be single-handed for most of the time I reckon you should have a design which enables you to get quickly (and unhindered) to the bow when needed. A modern *trad* might not be the best stern in those circumstances?

[carlt]

 

A modern *trad* might not be the best stern in those circumstances?

Why not?

 

You're already either on the roof or inside the back cabin so I can't see a hindrance.

 

That said I have never in 30 odd years, that I can recall, needed to get to the bow "quickly".

 

Could you tell me in what circumstances you should leave the boat without anyone at the helm, single-handed or not?

[Phil Ambrose]

CarlT is correct and Tobymonster needs to look at himself hard as he seems to have a serious problem if he believes all passing boaters are giving him "Dirty Looks"

 

Phil

[Timleech]

Avoid square sterns, especially if there is no taper of the sides towards the stern - they make close quarters manoeuvring much harder work.

 

I'm quite happy with this one:-

 

 

Tim

 

[bargemast]

Your Tug has a gorgeous stern, but she'll surely too deep for the badly maintained smaller canals, how deep does she draw ?

 

Peter.

[Timleech]

Your Tug has a gorgeous stern, but she'll surely too deep for the badly maintained smaller canals, how deep does she draw ?

 

Peter.

 

I've reduced the static draught from about 3'8" when I bought it, to about 3'3" now. It's too wide for the narrow canals anyway (9 foot beam), but that reduction does make it more useable on some wider canals and means I can creep along the Trent & Mersey from Preston Brook to the Anderton boat lift - important for me as I'm based near to Preston Brook.

There is a half ton ballast tank in the forepeak, and running with that half full gives me 3'3" at the stern. Emptying it brings the stern down to nearer to 3'6", useful in deep water because the propeller is less likely to ventilate.

 

Tim

Edited September 12, 2013 by Timleech

[bizzard]

Dirty great w/beam square sterned boats with huge flat uxter plates used on small waterways and rivers cause a really huge, horrid suction vortex and wave in their wake at even low speeds which doggedly follows them about everywhere leaving a big and wild local fluctuation in water levels eroding the banks, upsetting Moorhen and Coots nests leaving them very angry and insecure and often nestless ect. Lots of homeless water birds around here because of em.

[Guest]

Avoid square sterns, especially if there is no taper of the sides towards the stern - they make close quarters manoeuvring much harder work.

 

I'm quite happy with this one:-

 

 

Tim

 

Would be very suited to our local waterways that would.... Edited September 12, 2013 by The Dog House

[bodger]

Well. not sure what to do now. Our new 70' boat is a trad, but now i am worrying about the dangerous tiller. Oh well, i guess i better ride over on my 1200cc 130BHP

motorcycle and have a word with the builder.!

[Guest]

Well. not sure what to do now. Our new 70' boat is a trad, but now i am worrying about the dangerous tiller. Oh well, i guess i better ride over on my 1200cc 130BHP

motorcycle and have a word with the builder.!

Why do you think a trad stern and a tiller combination could be dangerous?

[bizzard]

Indeed Tims little tugs hull is a proper beautiful sea kindly shaped hull.

[Timleech]

Would be very suited to our local waterways that would....

 

I'm hoping to get over there next summer, Leeds & Liverpool canal permitting...

 

Tim