Day boat, license, and Riperian Rights

[Rob S]

Hi all,

 

I have a question regarding licensing, and riperian rights.

 

I'm the lucky owner of a property that backs onto the river Kennet. As owner of the property we own the river bank and upto the centre line of the river. These are our Riperian rights.

 

I have just bought a day boat that we intend to use mostly on nice summer afternoons to just cruise up and down our stretch of river. it is moored at the bottom of our garden on our property.

 

I fully intend to buy a day license whenever i take the boat out for the day, but I've been lead to believe that because it is stored on the water, i would need a yearly license for it. Even though it is on my property. Surely this can't be right? I spoke to the C&RT and they claimed that I would need to because I only owned the riverbed, and they owned the water?? I'm sure this isn't right.

 

A yearly license for the boat would be around 400 which is very expensive for something we are just going to use a handful of times in the summer.

 

I believe I'm also correct in saying that I can legally prosecute people for trespassing on my property if they enter the section of water that I own. If this is so, then how can they claim it belongs to them?

 

I also think my Riperian rights allow me some use of the river without the need for a license, so again, why would i need one when It's moored on my property?

 

Has anyone got any experience of these matters? I've seen a few legal quotes about riperian rights on this forum, but am unsure how it effects my situation because this is a river and not a canal.

 

Thanks for the help!

[kris88]

I'm sorry I don't no the legal situation I'm shure somebody will be along who does

But can't you pull the boat out when not in use

Regards kris

[carlt]

I own the land to the middle of the road in front of my house but I still have to pay road tax if I want to park a car on it.

 

What's even more annoying is that the council keep laying tarmac on my vegetable patch.

[mark99]

If you dig a pond on your own land you still need a rod licence to fish on it.

[Phil Ambrose]

I' afraid that you do only own the river bed and they own the water, if this was not the case you could fence in "your" bit of river and clearly this is not an option.

[Guest]

Hi all,

 

I have a question regarding licensing, and riperian rights.

 

I'm the lucky owner of a property that backs onto the river Kennet. As owner of the property we own the river bank and upto the centre line of the river. These are our Riperian rights.

 

I have just bought a day boat that we intend to use mostly on nice summer afternoons to just cruise up and down our stretch of river. it is moored at the bottom of our garden on our property.

 

I fully intend to buy a day license whenever i take the boat out for the day, but I've been lead to believe that because it is stored on the water, i would need a yearly license for it. Even though it is on my property. Surely this can't be right? I spoke to the C&RT and they claimed that I would need to because I only owned the riverbed, and they owned the water?? I'm sure this isn't right.

 

A yearly license for the boat would be around 400 which is very expensive for something we are just going to use a handful of times in the summer.

 

I believe I'm also correct in saying that I can legally prosecute people for trespassing on my property if they enter the section of water that I own. If this is so, then how can they claim it belongs to them?

 

I also think my Riperian rights allow me some use of the river without the need for a license, so again, why would i need one when It's moored on my property?

 

Has anyone got any experience of these matters? I've seen a few legal quotes about riperian rights on this forum, but am unsure how it effects my situation because this is a river and not a canal.

 

Thanks for the help!

 

As I understand it if it's on CRT waterways (moored to a private bank or not) it needs a licence you may (???will) also need an end of garden mooring permit and permission from CRT to utilise the space as a mooring.

 

The only way to avoid this that I can see is to pull it off their water when it is not in use.

[mark99]

I know it's hard to swallow but it makes sense to have one body responsible for navigation for a water course (and water quality but that's via EA). Otherwise you could put up a dam and block the flow if you wanted to. Or abstract loads of water. Or pollute your bit of water.

[Paul C]

I think you need to do a bit more research on what your riparian rights and responsibilities are. For example, they don't include the right of navigation, but do include the responsibilities of keeping the river unobstructed and allowing others to navigate. Did you recently buy the property?? If so, then it shouldn't be too hard to dig out the legal info, or possibly the solicitor who did the conveyancing can help you out.

 

One of the rights you do have is to build a jetty to reach the navigable part of the river (eg deep enough) but there's a bunch of other rules here and you'd need to have the plans and construction overseen/approved by CRT, which are the navigation authority for this river and have the duty to do so.

[Rob S]

Thanks for the feedback.

 

Do they own the water? I don't think legally anyone can own the water.

 

the Riperian rights stop me damming or blocking the river, but I think they also give me the right to access, abstract water from and use the river in limited amounts too?

 

About the road tax comparison. if you wanted to not use your car for 6 months of the year, you are allowed to SORN notify it. Then you are allowed to keep it on your drive (attached to the road network). But you don't have to pay road tax on it. Its just taken under trust that you won't drive it whilst its sorned.

 

I'm only looking for something along these lines. I don't mind paying when i'm using it, just not when I'm not using it.

 

And I don't see why I should have to pull it out the water. If I hover it an inch above the water, i don't need a license, yet its still taking up the same space on the river.

 

I'm not trying to con the C&RT, I just don't think that the current licensing is designed with people like me in mind. The licensing at the moment seems very all or nothing.

[Guest]

Thanks for the feedback.

 

Do they own the water? I don't think legally anyone can own the water.

 

the Riperian rights stop me damming or blocking the river, but I think they also give me the right to access, abstract water from and use the river in limited amounts too?

 

About the road tax comparison. if you wanted to not use your car for 6 months of the year, you are allowed to SORN notify it. Then you are allowed to keep it on your drive (attached to the road network). But you don't have to pay road tax on it. Its just taken under trust that you won't drive it whilst its sorned.

 

I'm only looking for something along these lines. I don't mind paying when i'm using it, just not when I'm not using it.

 

And I don't see why I should have to pull it out the water. If I hover it an inch above the water, i don't need a license, yet its still taking up the same space on the river.

 

I'm not trying to con the C&RT, I just don't think that the current licensing is designed with people like me in mind. The licensing at the moment seems very all or nothing.

 

They don't 'own' the water but they have the right to a licence fee from anybody who boats on it or moors a boat on it, that is just how it is. The only exception to this is a very small number of marinas where there is no requirement to have a licence unless you venture out on to CRT waters. Even entirely marina bound boats normally require a licence if they want to be on the water.

 

Your SORN analogy doesn't stack up because parking your car on your drive is effectively the same as taking your boat out of the water and putting it on your land ie off the highway/waterway.

Edited September 3, 2013 by The Dog House

[bozlite]

About the road tax comparison. if you wanted to not use your car for 6 months of the year, you are allowed to SORN notify it. Then you are allowed to keep it on your drive (attached to the road network). But you don't have to pay road tax on it. Its just taken under trust that you won't drive it whilst its sorned.

I'm only looking for something along these lines. I don't mind paying when i'm using it, just not when I'm not using it.

And I don't see why I should have to pull it out the water. If I hover it an inch above the water, i don't need a license, yet its still taking up the same space on the river.

But that's the point, isn't it? If you leave your car on the public road you have to have it licensed; if youkeep it on your driveway, you don't. If you keep your boat on your river bank, it doesn't need a licence; if you keep it on CRT waters, it does.

 

Anyway, you'd need to read your deeds to get a comprehensive answer, but generally what's been said here so far is correct.

 

(Welcome to the forum, by the way!)

[Graham Davis]

You do not "own" the water, you only own the ground beneath the water, therefore anything floating on that water needs to be registered, licenced and insured.

 

CaRT and/or EA "own" the navigation rights on that water and if your boat is floating on said water you have to abide by their rules. That may also include charges for a CaRT End of Garden Mooring.

 

Riparian Rights do not automatically give you any Rights and this should have been pointed out to you by your Solicitor when you bought the house. It might be a very good idea to get a full copy of your deeds and inspect them thoroughly. Currently you don't appear to have done that.

 

I suggest you go back to your solicitor and get some full and PROPER advice.

[Dominic M]

Rob: if the waterway was a canal then you would in most circumstances have to license the boat and pay for the mooring right to the navigation authority - most commonly CRT. However, the River Kennet is different - it is an older pre-canal river navigation and CRT only have rights over the navigation, not the whole of the river. I know for example that at Greenham lock, where the lock cottage owners also have a set of moorings on a weir stream of the Kennet, that they are outside of CRT's jurisdiction, and do not have to pay for mooring rights or have the craft licensed (although if the craft want to cruise they obviously need to buy a licence to do that). A similar situation exists on the River Soar. Quite a number of the moorings are outside CRT control, and some boat owners there buy a visitor licence if they are only going to cruise for a few weeks a year.

 

So you need to research whether the navigation rights extend across the full width of the river where you are, or whether your bank side lies outside of that. If it is the former, then you will be obliged to license the boat and pay for mooring (nominally a half rate of the rate set for the nearest long term moorings CRT operate - and how that works since the auction system started I have yet to ask).

 

Happy hunting!

 

Dominic

Edited September 3, 2013 by Dominic M

[Rob S]

Dominic, thanks for the info. Where might i start to research such things?

 

I know for a fact that i don't have to pay for mooring. A neighbour a few houses has a letter from BW saying so (dated 1999) but still valid.

 

He also has a letter saying that it would be ok to license it for part of the year, but I'm looking for something more legally binding than that. Having read on here about riperian rights etc i figured it would be good it ask.

 

as it is there are quite a few different opinions already! Keep them coming.

 

I know that the EA have Issued a list of riperian "rights" but this mostly relates to what we are obliged to do (keep the river clean etc, which i do do). I understand that there is a old common law that gives owners of land ajoining a river the right to navigate it. searching for riperian rights on this site brings up several interesting articles.

[bozlite]

So you need to research whether the navigation rights extend across the full width of the river where you are, or whether your bank side lies outside of that. If it is the former, then you will be obliged to license the boat and pay for mooring (nominally a half rate of the rate set for the nearest long term moorings CRT operate - and how that works since the auction system started I have yet to ask).

 

Happy hunting!

 

Dominic

As a rule of thumb: on a canal, CRT own the whole of the watercourse and its bed - therefore they can charge for mooring rights and a licence. On a river, they own the watercourse, but NOT its bed, and can therefore only charge you for a licence if you keep a boat on the water. There are, as you point out, bits of the Soar that fall completely outside this rule because they're not part of the navigation, and therefore CRT cannot charge either for a mooring or a licence.

[carlt]

About the road tax comparison. if you wanted to not use your car for 6 months of the year, you are allowed to SORN notify it. Then you are allowed to keep it on your drive (attached to the road network). But you don't have to pay road tax on it. Its just taken under trust that you won't drive it whilst its sorned.

 

I'm only looking for something along these lines. I don't mind paying when i'm using it, just not when I'm not using it.

You are perfectly entitled to take boat off the navigation for 6 months of the year, if you wish, just like I can take my car off the highway.

 

CRT will trust that you don't return it to the navigation without telling them and don't even have to SORN it.,

[bozlite]

Rob: found this document from CRT. It more or less confirms what most have been saying here, but worth reading for the official view: http://canalrivertrust.org.uk/media/library/632.pdf

 

ETA: Here's an extract:

 

If the land is privately owned, then why do I need permission from the navigation authority to moor there?

A mooring always comprises two elements: land and water. Exclusive use of the water space at the mooring requires the consent of whoever owns the river or canal bed. In the great majority of cases this is the Canal & River Trust. Check the title to your property to establish its exact boundary in some cases along certain river navigations, adjacent land ownership extends to the centre line of the river. You should submit this evidence to obtain an exemption from the need for a mooring agreement.

Edited September 3, 2013 by bozlite

[Rob S]

I believe this agreement is already in place. I'm quite sure the actual mooring is ok and doesn't need to be paid for. our neighbour has had numerous discussions over the years and has letters saying that we do not need to pay for mooring.

 

This question is more about licensing. As I can't see why if I can moor it for free on my property, then why do i need a license when its not being used?

[RLWP]

I believe this agreement is already in place. I'm quite sure the actual mooring is ok and doesn't need to be paid for. our neighbour has had numerous discussions over the years and has letters saying that we do not need to pay for mooring.

 

This question is more about licensing. As I can't see why if I can moor it for free on my property, then why do i need a license when its not being used?

 

Before you get too far into this, try pricing up how much it would cost you to license the boat for the various trips you want to make. It may well be cheaper to license it for a year

 

Richard

[Paul C]

 

This question is more about licensing. As I can't see why if I can moor it for free on my property, then why do i need a license when its not being used?

 

Because CRT can set the rules under which it sells its short term licences:

 

 

 

Short term visitor licences (One day, One week, One month and Explorer licences) are not available for boats floating in marinas or moorings connected to Canal & River Trust waters, with the exception of 'Rivers Only' licence holders wishing to extend their licence to cover a short term cruise on Canals.

 

(from https://secure.britishwaterways.co.uk/short-term/boat-licence )

 

They're interpreting your mooring as a mooring connected to CRT waters. Short term licences are intended for boats which are on other waterways (such as Bridgewater Canal, or EA waters) or which are launched and retrieved on a slipway and thus no need for a floating mooring.

[Guest]

I believe this agreement is already in place. I'm quite sure the actual mooring is ok and doesn't need to be paid for. our neighbour has had numerous discussions over the years and has letters saying that we do not need to pay for mooring.

This question is more about licensing. As I can't see why if I can moor it for free on my property, then why do i need a license when its not being used?

Dominic's useful info. aside we all need to licence our boats even when we don't use them, why do you think you might be different. The licence is for it being on CRT waters not for using the boat.

[Dominic M]

Dominic, thanks for the info. Where might i start to research such things?

 

I know for a fact that i don't have to pay for mooring. A neighbour a few houses has a letter from BW saying so (dated 1999) but still valid.

 

He also has a letter saying that it would be ok to license it for part of the year, but I'm looking for something more legally binding than that. Having read on here about riperian rights etc i figured it would be good it ask.

 

as it is there are quite a few different opinions already! Keep them coming.

 

I know that the EA have Issued a list of riperian "rights" but this mostly relates to what we are obliged to do (keep the river clean etc, which i do do). I understand that there is a old common law that gives owners of land ajoining a river the right to navigate it. searching for riperian rights on this site brings up several interesting articles.

That would possibly suggest that the bank side strip of river lies outside of the navigation then, and if that is the case then you do not need a licence either except for when you wish to go cruising. You really need to see exactly the basis upon which BW agreed this with your neighbour, just in case his property has some other privileges historically that grant an exemption. However, as I said above, if your bit of water lies outside the navigation then you are free to moor without charge or need for a licence.

 

Where do you start? Sight of the Kennet Navigation Act of 1715 probably has maps included, or reference to them. You could possibly simplify the process by asking CRT to provide proof that their navigation rights extend to include the river at your bank.

 

Edited to add: I wasn't aware of the regulation quoted by Paul C. I understand its purpose, but I also know of people who are in just such a situation who do purchase a visitor licence when they wish to go cruising for a couple of weeks. They are people who live aboard their boat on moorings that are on the Soar and take it out for a fortnight perhaps once a year. They have never had the visitor licence refused.

Edited September 3, 2013 by Dominic M

[Guest]

Before you get too far into this, try pricing up how much it would cost you to license the boat for the various trips you want to make. It may well be cheaper to license it for a year

 

Richard

Good point.

[RLWP]

Good point.

 

Yes, completely defeated by:

 

 

Because CRT can set the rules under which it sells its short term licences:

 

 

 

 

(from https://secure.britishwaterways.co.uk/short-term/boat-licence )

 

They're interpreting your mooring as a mooring connected to CRT waters. Short term licences are intended for boats which are on other waterways (such as Bridgewater Canal, or EA waters) or which are launched and retrieved on a slipway and thus no need for a floating mooring.

 

So, if you want to use CRT's waters it's a one year license or nothing

 

Richard

[Gingerbeer]

I think everyone has said the same thing, just in different ways, many times. But the fact remains that whether you own a car and use it daily or 10 times a year, you need a license. Whether you fish for one day or every month, you need a license. Whether you want to drive a car once or for the rest of your life, you need a license. The CRT is no different in requiring you to get a license if you want to keep a boat on their canal/river system. They take care of it and if falls under their jurisdiction. Many people own boats and either keep them in the water full time, have them out for a month or two for repairs, or put them in only when they use them. But whatever the circumstance, you need a LICENSE. It is just one of those things you have to suck up. How long is your day boat, 20, 30 feet long? If so, you get off easy for a license. Consider yourself lucky that you have a place to keep your boat, others have to pay a mooring fee plus the cost of a license. I wish I had a place like that.