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Today's Buying Advice


rolyhammond

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Afternoon,

 

I'm Sean and I am definitely a newbie to boating.

 

So a few Q's. Rest assured I have trawled all of the forum over recent days, but I truly believe a personal bespoke view is not to be sniffed at.

 

This afternoon I'm going to look at a 2011 57ft high spec wide beam, for the second time.

The owner seems a top bloke and genuine reason for sale.

 

I am awaiting final confirmation of the offer of finance, which in principle has been accepted.

The cost is 80k.

As its a private sale, do I offer him a price and if accepted pay him a deposit directly? What % is the norm. Obviously this is subject to survey.

Any key questions I should be asking?

 

Any further advice will be much appreciated,

 

Sean

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Afternoon,

 

I'm Sean and I am definitely a newbie to boating.

 

So a few Q's. Rest assured I have trawled all of the forum over recent days, but I truly believe a personal bespoke view is not to be sniffed at.

 

This afternoon I'm going to look at a 2011 57ft high spec wide beam, for the second time.

The owner seems a top bloke and genuine reason for sale.

 

I am awaiting final confirmation of the offer of finance, which in principle has been accepted.

The cost is 80k.

As its a private sale, do I offer him a price and if accepted pay him a deposit directly? What % is the norm. Obviously this is subject to survey.

Any key questions I should be asking?

 

Any further advice will be much appreciated,

 

Sean

Hi

 

What do you mean by " High Spec " ? I know of someone who paid an arm and a leg for a superbly hand fitted widebeam but it was on a Liverpool/Collingwood shell so it will always be a budget boat but at a high price. Find out who built the shell before paying top money. Nowt wrong with Liverpool/Collingwood shells but putting a high spec fitout in one is like putting Granite worktops and solid oak interiors in a Springer, and before anybody says out there is nowt wrong with springers either at springer prices.

 

Tim

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It's the sort of question that brings me out in a cold sweat.

 

It's just my opinion but someone who knows next to nothing about boats spending that sort of money, especially in today's financial climate, is running a big risk. Even surveyors don't really know enough to properly value a boat. But when you get under the skin of brokers you realise what's state things are in- yes they are selling boats, but do you know what discounts they are having to give?

 

All boat sellers are friendly and helpful, or at least they should be, that way it makes it harder for you to bargain!

 

But to answer the question, the purpose of a deposit is to indicate your commitment to buy, and so the seller has some comeback if you disappear after making the agreement. What it is not in my view, and I sense there will be some disagreement here, is a down payment. If you change your mind, for any reason, before completing the sale, you should reserve your right to get the deposit back. In this respect it doesn't need to be a substantial amount, I would say £1000, and make it clear, in the nicest possible way, that if there's anything you discover subsequently that puts you off the purchase, you will require the full amount to be returned. If your vendor isn't happy about this, I'd be very wary.

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The owner seems a top bloke and genuine reason for sale.

 

 

So do all con men, not saying he is but better safe than sorry.

 

All the above warnings plus, How do you know this boat is his to sell.

 

Will not be the first to be sold this way.

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Good guess, MrsMelly, a Collingwood shell indeed. But the inventory has some good names: M&S, Craftmaster, Armitage Shanks etc. - and the price, for a nearly new boat with an undeniably attractive interior (apart from that silly washbasin in the bathroom), is probably pretty fair. My only real issue would be with its name: 'The Great Escape' sounds as if it's emitted an ear-splitting fart. I hope that the Canaline engine is quieter than that.

 

What do the brokers on the forum think?

Edited by Athy
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All valid point which will be taken onboard.

 

I will be scrutinising paperwork this evening and be in a better position to pursue.

 

http://www.apolloduck.com/advert.phtml?id=279550.

 

This is the link if it makes things easier.

 

Is this boat professionally fitted out or was it bought as a sailaway and fitted out by the present owner?

 

The advert suggests to me that it might have been. The ad also makes no mention of compliance with the Recreational Craft Directive and the boat looks as though it has not achieved its 5 years since first use after completion.

 

I think it might be worth you checking this out carefully! Have a look at the Hants Trading Standards Guidance page here.

 

Richard

Edited by rjasmith
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Safety Certificate to Feb 2016

 

 

Year constructed:2011

 

This rings alarm bells, unless the 'certificate' is an RCD (Recreational Craft Directive) and not not just an annexe III (The annexe III would cover the shell but not the fit out.

 

Have a search on the forum and google.

 

Edit: beaten to it see post #7

Edited by bottle
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All the above warnings plus, How do you know this boat is his to sell.

 

A reasonably good way of telling is whether he has a feckin' great file full of history of the boat, starting with the invoice for the shell, a reciept for payment(s), in his name and at the postal address you have for him. Visit him at this address to confirm it IS him. Ideally look up the house up on the Land Registry to check he really owns it too, if you are paranoid. (I would be for £80k!)

 

Then there should be a purchase receipt and the instruction booklet in the same file for virtually every item installed in the boat - engine, water pump, fridge, hob, oven, whale gulper etc etc...

 

Finally, as others have said, the RCD compliance certificate. Not all buyers care a jot about this so it isn't a deal breaker, but when you come to sell you'll find quite a few buyers do care a very large jot, and will walk away if the RCD registration is incomplete/flawed/missing.

 

MtB

Edited by Mike the Boilerman
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Gentlemen,

 

Many thanks for all the knowledge and advice.

 

Furthermore and to answer some of the questions.

 

The boat has an Annex III, it was bought as a shell and constructed to the owners own specification, using a variety of professional companies. All manuals and warranties are present with the boat.

 

Mooring / Cruising - a bit of both to be honest, I have put my name down on a number of Marinas in the London Area, but as you are aware it is pretty busy. So in the interest of the reason we buy theses boats, I am going to do a bit of cruising and learning.

 

For A Laugh - He allowed me to test drive yesterday and I was unfortunate enough to very lightly clip another moored boat whilst rounding a bend. Nil damage to both boats, just a little red faced potential customer!!!blush.png

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Gentlemen,

 

Many thanks for all the knowledge and advice.

 

Furthermore and to answer some of the questions.

 

The boat has an Annex III, it was bought as a shell and constructed to the owners own specification, using a variety of professional companies. All manuals and warranties are present with the boat.

 

Mooring / Cruising - a bit of both to be honest, I have put my name down on a number of Marinas in the London Area, but as you are aware it is pretty busy. So in the interest of the reason we buy theses boats, I am going to do a bit of cruising and learning.

 

For A Laugh - He allowed me to test drive yesterday and I was unfortunate enough to very lightly clip another moored boat whilst rounding a bend. Nil damage to both boats, just a little red faced potential customer!!!blush.png

See post 9 above.

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Yep re. Annexe iii been there - had to wait another 8 weeks for the proper paperwork to be prepared before RoyScotLarch agreed to lend to us to buy her.

Fortunately the vendor had carefully fitted the boat out, we have all the receipts for everything plus a folder with photographs of the entire build.

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If you have to ask any of these questions, you really shouldn't be doing it, stay in a house or flat where you are more than likely to be in your comfort zone. The next thing would be to hire a boat for a week or two and see if you could live the dream.

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I think a number of us have emphasized our concerns about the possible lack of full RCD compliance on this boat.

 

Just to put it in another way, if the only RCD relevant paperwork is an Annex III declaration then by buying the boat you will be accepting it as Part Complete. (Does this Annex III just cover the shell/sailaway build or has the current owner added to it to include his work?).

 

Under the RCD you will then take on the role of Boatbuilder and will have full responsibility for the entire boat's construction so far plus any further work you may do to "complete" it.

 

You will then be unable to sell it legally until five years have passed from the date of first use (if the full RCD Declaration hasn't been made, that date hasn't started yet!).

 

Did you read the link to Hants Trading Stds I gave in post 7?

 

Richard

Edited by rjasmith
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Which we now know it isn't. Now it's looking expensive.

 

Very expensive in fact as it's a bucket shop hull, with a DIY fit-out, and no RCD.

 

MtB

That pretty well sums it up.

 

How many times on this forum do we come across complete newcomers heading like moths round a light bulb towards a potential disaster simply because of lack of experience and naivety.

 

You just wonder how many get taken to the cleaners we never hear about.

 

Just hope the OP has the good sense to walk away from this one.

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Hi

 

What do you mean by " High Spec " ? I know of someone who paid an arm and a leg for a superbly hand fitted widebeam but it was on a Liverpool/Collingwood shell so it will always be a budget boat but at a high price. Find out who built the shell before paying top money. Nowt wrong with Liverpool/Collingwood shells but putting a high spec fitout in one is like putting Granite worktops and solid oak interiors in a Springer, and before anybody says out there is nowt wrong with springers either at springer prices.

 

Tim

I will now remove my gold taps from my Springer

:)

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That pretty well sums it up.

How many times on this forum do we come across complete newcomers heading like moths round a light bulb towards a potential disaster simply because of lack of experience and naivety.

You just wonder how many get taken to the cleaners we never hear about.

Just hope the OP has the good sense to walk away from this one.

Mixed messages throughout!

 

Cut deep beneath those of you who appear to be providing "constructive" criticism, is a more sinister bitter ignorance completely contrary to the good nature and community boaters are associated with.

 

To those of you who have been genuine and provided sound advice, I thank you and rest assured I have actioned your suggestions and advice. I have seen everything necessary to see this as a legitimate transaction, only backed up with the required documents.

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