1.8 Starter Woes...

[Pyroman]

Hi All - new here, so please be gentle!

 

I'm also a total engine novice so apologies in advance for any stupid questions! Nonetheless, I'm keen to understand my engine rather than resort to an engineer in the first instance, hence my questions.

 

On Sunday, after a week of gentle cruising and with no prior warning, on trying to start, the starter would barely turn the engine through a single revolution. Symptoms were as if the starter was encountering serious resistance every half rev.

 

To try and be concise, the following is my journey so far...

 

1. Battery checked and bench charged anyway to eliminate any doubt - all okay
2. Voltage checked at starter to ensure no cable loss - all okay.
3. Due to laboured / resistant sounding starter I initially suspected flywheel or engine resistance.
4. Can crank engine by hand so presumably engine not seized? Attention turns to flywheel.
5. Removed starter to inspect flywheel gear ring - seems a bit burred / chipped so clearly needs attention - but could this cause sudden failure? I find it implausible that there were no prior symptoms.
6. Tested starter once removed - spins freely, pinion engages forward as expected.
7. Cleaned starter contacts and reassembled to engine - hoping that perhaps she may turn over on reassembly...
8. Result - same symptoms - struggling to crank engine - dying after half a rev - sometimes not cranking at all.

So....as far as an amateur like me can deduce, there is either something jamming the flywheel - or the starter motor is okay until put under load, at which point it dies. I do rather suspect the latter.

 

Which gives me the option of either trying (i.e. buying) a new starter - or calling out an engineer to inspect the flywheel.

 

Any experts who can offer an opinion or pointers on my best way forward?

 

All advice much appreciated - still relatively new to (but hooked on) living aboard so keen to learn!

 

Cheers,

 

Chris

[RLWP]

Take your starter to a local reconditioner to test. They'll usually give you an answer for free

 

Richard

[springy]

Hi Chris

 

Unlikely to be ring gear - they do get a bit worn in the places the engine usually stops, but symptoms would

include horrible noises as the starter fails to engage and the engine would not turn over at all,

 

When you say you can crank it over by hand - presumably spanner on the front pulley - relatively easy

with tighter bits or very difficult ? - If it turns over fairly easily then it could well be the starter.

 

Has the engine actually been run since ?

 

Have you checked oil & water - could possibly be head gasket allowing water into cylinder ?

 

springy

[Flyboy]

Have you checked the voltage under load when cranking the engine? Check it at the battery and at the starter motor. The voltage should be above 10 volts on load, if lower I think you have a duff battery. Try jumping it from the domestic battery or other known good battery.

 

I had a car once that started perfectly one morning, went to work and it would hardly turn the engine when I went to go home. The battery had expired and it was not cold weather. Similar symptons as your problem.

 

[Geoff Taylor]

Hi, It may be worth you run a good quality jump lead from the positive of your domestic battery bank to the pos on the starter battery and see if the starter spins the engine over ok before getting the starter motor checked as you did not state how after charging was the battery tested,was it drop tested or just by multimeter?, if the latter (multimeter) was used,it will not detect the cranking amps power of the battery. My guess is a cell failure, jumping off your domestics will confirm. Please note,do not make a habit of jumping,replace battery. Hope this helps.

[Pyroman]

Thanks guys - really appreciate all the quick advice.

 

Richard - since posting, I've whipped the starter off again and am going to find somewhere to have it tested tomorrow.

 

Springy - very reassuring about the ring gear, hope you're right! It does turn over pretty easily with harder bit which I guess are compression. Haven't been able to run her since but oil and water have been checked.

 

As for the batteries, yes I've tried jumping off the domestic bank, to no avail. All are under five months old and have been looked after. Voltage has also been checked under load - actually it barely dropped below 12 - perhaps even this is indicative of a faulty starter?

 

I should also have mentioned that the starter caught fire within a month of me buying the boat! I had it rewound and reconditioned by a competent engineer, however given the starter's history of doom, it's always suspect in my view...

 

Fingers crossed it is the starter - will keep all posted.

 

Cheers,

 

Chris

[bizzard]

A good basic test is to lay the starter on the ground, put your foot on it, from a known good and charged battery, apply the jump leads black neg - to body and red + to solenoid (in terminal) then small wire from that terminal and touch the small terminal (often spade) on solenoid. By doing it like this the solenoid pre-engage mechanism will also work as well as the motor, as it does when fixed to the engine. When you touch the small terminal with the wire the starter should kick quite heavily under your foot, pinion shoot out and the motor should be up to speed virtually instantaniousely with considerable torque which you should feel under your foot. If sluggish getting up to speed get it seen to.

[Neil2]

Almost certainly the starter motor is at fault - they have a hard life on these engines and many problems starting a BMC can be attributed to a tired motor.

[Tony Brooks]

Almost certainly the starter motor is at fault - they have a hard life on these engines and many problems starting a BMC can be attributed to a tired motor.

 

But not the first thing to check.

 

I note on the initial list nothing was mentioned about checking ALL connections on the starter circuit - including the large negative ones or the master switch.

 

The symptoms could be any of a faulty starter, faulty battery or something causing Volterra on the circuit. My first suspect (in view of what has been done) would be the master switch, especially if it has a horrible plastic key. Depending upon the access either put a big clip across both terminals or put all the leads onto one terminal as a test measure. Also feel it to see if it is getting hot. Feel all around the wiring and terminals (including the negative runs) for looseness, corrosion & tightness. Clean the battery posts and terminals to bright metal (dress with Vaseline). Pull/twist each terminal in case the cable is not properly crimped into it.

 

Then check the cranking voltage as has been advised. If it is low take any battery plugs out and crank again. If any individual cells immediately start to bubble you probably have a faulty battery. If the starter body gets hot then it may well be the starter (it will get warm). Neither are definitive tests but are easy to do.

[Paul1977]

Hi all, I've just had the exactly the same symptoms on my 2.2 bmc. It would not kick over at all, just as if a) the battery was flat, the fly wheel was stcuk. i then thought it was the solenoid so replaced that, still wouldn't kick over. So I stripped the starter motor down (easy job only a few bolts and screws holding the end cap), as soon as I pulled out the main motor section I realised the problem. Water/moisture had corroded the motor copper plates and connectors inside the starter motor. Gave them a good clean with wd40 and wire wool, greased the bendix, reassembled and its working great. The hardest part was getting the last bolt underneath the starter motor out, I had to cut down a spanner in half so it would fit under the engine.

Hope this helps.

Paul

[Leepers]

I had one die on me just the same, just didn't have enough power to turn the engine fast enough to start. Replacement starter did the trick.

[Pyroman]

Well, this one's sorted. Not only that, but what was previously ALWAYS a sluggish starting engine now fires on pretty much one crank!

 

Thanks in no small part to the advice here, I searched for a starter specialist - well landed on my feet to find these guys on my doorstep: http://www.startermotorsalternators.com/

 

Rebuilt, rewound, new solenoid, new internals, even resprayed, for a great price, and the owner of the firm couldn't have been more helpful - he even let me collect the starter from his house as he was shut on Saturdays. Oh, and he did it in 24 hours. The previous rebuild was carried out by a marine specialist, took two weeks, and lasted six months!

 

So, I can't recommend these chaps enough. They have an eBay shop so can probably help anyone, anywhere.

 

Thanks again for all the advice here. An interesting week!

 

Chris

[RLWP]

I haven't used that company you found, our local starter/alternator reconditioner is similarly brilliant

 

Richard