A legal question on self defence

[MHS]

We watched last night in horror, well actually it was quite amusing, as a swan had a real go at a canoeist.

 

He was paddling past our boats moored in Stone, which were opposite a swan sitting on her nest. The male took exception to this, and spent 5 minutes or so pecking and wing beating him. He was trying to fend it off, with little success.

 

Another moorer and I walking down the towpath with a boat pole to see if we could help. The canoeist at this point managed to paddle away with the swan hanging onto his stern for another 5 minutes.

 

Has the Home Secretary factored this dilemma into the changes in the rules on self defence? Does a canoe count as a dwelling? Is a paddle a reasonable weapon? Did the swan take advantage of its protected status?

[BenC]

We watch our local canoeists being beaten up on a regular basis by a protective swan. The hardcore that know he's there just put their heads down and paddle past fast even if he attacks, the not so hardcore get out and carry their canoe, And the unfortunate stop try to paddle backwards, panic, splash water! capsize and swim for their lives then give up canoeing forever!

Great fun

[bargemast]

It may be great fun to watch, if it finishes without any serious physical harm, as swans are very dangerous and being hit by their wings is NO fun.

 

Peter.

[Proper Job]

Can I borrow your swan

[Jerra]

It may be great fun to watch, if it finishes without any serious physical harm, as swans are very dangerous and being hit by their wings is NO fun.

 

Peter.

Being hit by a swan wing is no fun, however they aren't as dangerous as is often believed. For example they don't break your arm with their wing. Ringers frequently catch swans (often by just grabbing a friendly one by the neck) and the RSPCA rescue swans as needed without personal injury.

 

No fun yes, frightening (particularly a Cob near the nest) yes, dangerous - not in my experience

[bluegreencanal]

Slightly off topic here, we had swans here with seven babies recently, as recent as two weeks ago, but now they are swimming alone. It looks as if all the cygnets have been taken or died. Anyone else with this ?

[PaulG]

We had to catch a four or five month old cygnet a few years ago as it had some fishing tackle hanging from its beak. (Before anyone says anything, the local Swan Rescue people asked us to cach it for them so that they could attend to it).

 

Catching it was quite easy. Got in amongst them in a small boat, armed with some bread, and just waited for the right moment to grab it, put it in a big box and whacked the lid down.

Mum and Dad were so busy scoffing, they didn't notice that they were one cygnet short.

 

I was a bit surprised when we released the cygnet back into the group. It promptly got attacked by Mum and Dad, until they suddenly realised that it was one of their own. Knowing what I know now I would have released the cygnet a little distance away from the adults, as the swan's natural instict seems to be to "attack now and ask questions later"!

 

They can be quite agressive to humans, but I think the stories of broken arms etc are exaggerated.

 

They will drown swimming dogs by pushing them under with their wings, though.

Slightly off topic here, we had swans here with seven babies recently, as recent as two weeks ago, but now they are swimming alone. It looks as if all the cygnets have been taken or died. Anyone else with this ?

The "usual suspect" would be a mink.

Edited May 24, 2013 by PaulG

[trackman]

Years ago a colleague of mine on the railway was called out because a swan was blocking the track on his "patch". It was sat between the rails & wouldn't move even when the driver drove his train slowly towards it, hooting the horn.

 

Nobody dared approach the bird, which hissed angrily if they went near. My mate was a keen birder, so knew better than them. He walked up calmly, scooped it up under one arm holding its head with his other hand, and removed it to a nearby pond.

 

Ever after he was a hero to all the local railway staff. In fairness, he had rightly guessed the swan was partially stunned after hitting overhead power lines he had noticed. That was why it had ended up on the track to begin with, and meant it was fairly easy to manage if handled correctly.

 

Don't try this at home though!

[magnetman]

there was a swan nest opposite me recently with a few cygnets. all gone

 

a bloke who sits by the cut in the mornings told me someone heard a big commotion middle of the night and thinks the swans were taken !!

 

as far as swans and canoes, one trick is to take bread with you and throw it for the swan when you get inside their 'security cordon' then paddle quickly to get out of its territory

 

I saw a bloke in a canoe having a go at a swan calling it a 'f,ing horrible animal' and other things. he was very uncool and the swan went a long way outside of the normal protection zone to get rid of him

 

they don't usually go far from the nest unless aggrevated but if course some are worse than others because of bad previous encounters.

[Grebe]

I seem to recall that our book on swans that we keep on the boat says that on average it takes five years for a pair of swans to breed replacements for themselves. We would be knee deep in swans if all the cygnets survived.

[bargemast]

Being hit by a swan wing is no fun, however they aren't as dangerous as is often believed. For example they don't break your arm with their wing. Ringers frequently catch swans (often by just grabbing a friendly one by the neck) and the RSPCA rescue swans as needed without personal injury.

 

No fun yes, frightening (particularly a Cob near the nest) yes, dangerous - not in my experience

 

I didn't say that being hit by a swans wing was going to break your arm, only that it was NO fun, it's not the sort of treatment I'm looking forward to.

 

Of course for the people that know how to deal with them, like the Ringers and the RSPCA, they don't present the same dangers as to them that don't know.

 

In a circus you can see that even wild animals ( I agree not half as dangerous as a swan) are not all that dangerous to the people that know how to deal with them.

 

Peter.

[magnetman]

I had a swan aggressively pecking the stern fender like a loony for about half a mile once. a local told me the swan had a lot if trouble with yobbos and yoofs so hated people in general.

 

Croxley Green on the GU

[little duck!]

There doesn't seem to be a problem with the swan population near Middlewich, I've never seen so many. We cruised through last September and there were two pairs of swans both with a brood (or whatever the collective for a group of swans is) of around 12 (quite old) cygnets each. Driving past recently they seemed to have survived but i have heard that they are fed each day by a group of locals.

I am not a swan lover and this was apparent at our old marina ,i could gaurantee if i sat on the front deck with a cuppa the swans would come (a pair) and start spiiting at me, horrible things. They were known though a they used to attack the ankles of unfortunates who stopped for diesel! We found the boat mop a useful tool, after being introduced to it all i had to do was reach for it of the roof and keep it by me, if i showed them the mop they swam away!

[Jerra]

Mute Swans have a juvenile survival rate (to age 3) of 0.42 and a typical age of 10 years. The oldest (proved by ringing) was 27 years 6 months.

 

Incidentally if you come across swans wearing a coloured Darvic ring and can read the letters (sometimes numbers) on it the British Trust for Ornithology welcome the information and generally (it depends on the ringer) you will get word back telling you what vis known about them where ringed, age sex etc.

 

http://www.bto.org/volunteer-surveys/ringing/ringing-schemehttp://www.bto.org/volunteer-surveys/ringing/ringing-scheme

[Hawkmoth]

Swans, while beautiful, can be nasty beasts. The cob which frequented the marina we lived on used to drown the ducklings regularly. The pair were not good parents either. Several years they lost all of their brood. They would let the cygnets get over the weir, and that was that.

[Puckle]

I normally find a wrack on the head with a paddle works

[tillergirl]

A group of swans is called a bevy of swans

 

We've been travelling south since the middle of March and have only seen 2 pairs with cygnets. The same with ducks and ducklings not many around...................I think the topsy turvy weather may have something to do with them all breeding rather late.

 

As for aggressive swans there is one on the towpath of the Keadby & Stainforth canal who defends his mate and chicks with much showing of wings and hissing. We mostly managed to get past him pretty smartish with the dogs.This was him last year

 

 

No doubt he will be in position this year too!

[benfordboy]

I recall the OH many yrs ago feeding the swans when we were moored on the Cranfleet cut by Trent lock - Couple walked by & laughed & said oh dear you shouldnt do that !

 

Strange we thought - Having fed them duck food not bread ! - The following morning at around 4.30 they were knocking on the side of the hull ! To be fair a further amount of food out of the side window & they settled down.

 

We will always feed them away from the boat now !!!

[BenC]

Many years ago we were in a state of intoxication! And ended up feeding swans by holding bread in our mouths!!! I'm glad to say that it all ended OK! I will still today always wave a finger infront of swans and let them bite it, it dosen't hurt, then I'll feed them grass or leaves.

[Roadsteam]

A good hard punch to the side of the head usually works to make them back off.

[BenC]

Just a tickle to the wing pits is better!

[DeanS]

I had my head down in the engine bay once, and as I lifted it up, I came eye to eye with a swans beak hissing (just as startled as I was probably), a few inches from my nose. It was terrifying!

[lee b]

apparently swans taste nice...food for thought for canoeists lol

i am a animal lover but with regards to fishing tackle hanging from the swan in defense to most anglers theirs little you can do when swans or ducks etc come in fast on ya tackle...also i seen some nonsense on the news early this year with some stupid animal rights protester on about the amount of swans dying through fisher mans lead shot... lead shot was banned in the eighties...although she never mentioned anything about clay pigeon shoots near canals,ponds,lakes etc leading off the back of private estates... if she wants to see real disaster with wild life she should check this link out...

[Barry]

I began to watch that film but had to give up on it. The narrator spoke far too quickly so was often unintelligible and a quarter of the way through the background music began to intrude which just made it worse.

 

Lost patience with trying to understand the details which is a pity because it could have been interesting but I couldn't understand her. Very bad production

[saltysplash]

My brother in law tells a tale of 2 Traffic cops who attend to a Swan blocking traffic on one of the Thames bridges,

 

Eventually after much cooing and clucking one of the officers manages to catch the bird and decides to wow the watching crowd by taking the swan to the edge of the bridge and thowing it into the air as you would do a pigeon launching it into flight.

 

Imagine the crowds dismay as the bird plummetted into the water and was last seen floating montionless away on the tide.

 

The two cops made good their escape