Closing lock gates

[Bro]

I always close lock gates and put paddles down after leaving a lock but a rereading of British Waterways publication 'The Boater's Handbook' makes me wonder just how important it really is to do so.

 

For operating guillotine locks the Handbook instructs:-

“When you've finished using the lock, always leave the pointing doors closed and the vertical gate raised, secured and locked, unless directed otherwise.”

So, just the one gate is to be closed (the pointing doors one) not both. What is so different, then, about non-guillotine locks with two sets of “pointing doors” that we should close both sets?

 

Provided:-

1. lock gates are in reasonable good nick, not leaking overmuch and

2. water is running in the bye-wash (ie. water conservation is not an issue) and

3. it is not known from which direction the next boat will arrive

 

is closing gates behind us (on leaving a lock) really so important?

[PiRSqwared]

No

[nicknorman]

I always close lock gates and put paddles down after leaving a lock but a rereading of British Waterways publication 'The Boater's Handbook' makes me wonder just how important it really is to do so.

 

For operating guillotine locks the Handbook instructs:-

“When you've finished using the lock, always leave the pointing doors closed and the vertical gate raised, secured and locked, unless directed otherwise.”

So, just the one gate is to be closed (the pointing doors one) not both. What is so different, then, about non-guillotine locks with two sets of “pointing doors” that we should close both sets?

 

Provided:-

1. lock gates are in reasonable good nick, not leaking overmuch and

2. water is running in the bye-wash (ie. water conservation is not an issue) and

3. it is not known from which direction the next boat will arrive

 

is closing gates behind us (on leaving a lock) really so important?

 

Yes, on a canal, No on a river. Guillotine gates refers primarily to the Nene which is a river. On a river, you don't worry about loss of water. On a canal, if you leave the gate open and there is a leak (like on most locks!) you waste water. Plus, since its the convention to close gates on a canal, you will be regarded as the devil incarnate if you leave them open!

 

The reason for leaving guillotine gates open is so that the lock can at as an additional weir by water flowing over the gates. If you close a guillotine gate, water can't flow over the top. Better to leave it open so water can flow under it.

Edited January 27, 2013 by nicknorman

[GUMPY]

Its fine on the GU south of Tring as its just about all river fed.

That was classed as a canal last time I checked.

 

Not going into the maths but if we all left gates open we would all have to do less work.

 

If the paddles are left up as well that would mean that the person working the lock would know that they were closed rather than relying on someone else to do it.

[Timleech]

 

 

is closing gates behind us (on leaving a lock) really so important?

 

There are times when it can be very important, other times less so.

The trouble is, complex rules would be no good. Simplest and safest to say shut all gates and paddles behind you (unless someone is in sight coming the opposite way, but shut all paddles anyway).

 

Tim

[ditchcrawler]

Yes, on a canal, No on a river. Guillotine gates refers primarily to the Nene which is a river. On a river, you don't worry about loss of water. On a canal, if you leave the gate open and there is a leak (like on most locks!) you waste water. Plus, since its the convention to close gates on a canal, you will be regarded as the devil incarnate if you leave them open!

 

The reason for leaving guillotine gates open is so that the lock can at as an additional weir by water flowing over the gates. If you close a guillotine gate, water can't flow over the top. Better to leave it open so water can flow under it.

According to the EA its for the health and well being of the fishes.

[waterworks]

Yes, on a canal, No on a river. Guillotine gates refers primarily to the Nene which is a river. On a river, you don't worry about loss of water. On a canal, if you leave the gate open and there is a leak (like on most locks!) you waste water. Plus, since its the convention to close gates on a canal, you will be regarded as the devil incarnate if you leave them open!

 

The reason for leaving guillotine gates open is so that the lock can at as an additional weir by water flowing over the gates. If you close a guillotine gate, water can't flow over the top. Better to leave it open so water can flow under it.

 

No it's not.

[GUMPY]

 

The reason for leaving guillotine gates open is so that the lock can at as an additional weir by water flowing over the gates. If you close a guillotine gate, water can't flow over the top. Better to leave it open so water can flow under it.

 

So what do you do when tbere is a guillotine at both ends, leave them both up:)

[GSer]

On the k&a, for alot of the locks, its essential that the top gates are closed when leaving the lock. The bottom gates can be left as you wish but attention has to be paid to any signage concerning the locks paddle gear position.

 

And before anybody says otherwise it certainly won't benefit anyone if these basic instructions are ignored.

[waterworks]

i don't beleive in dumbing down lock working, like you suggest here.

 

we can also say that you should operate locks according to the waterways byelaws book, which is quite detailed on every aspect of the subject, no where i can remember does it say you should or are required to close gates.

[nicknorman]

i don't beleive in dumbing down lock working, like you suggest here.

 

we can also say that you should operate locks according to the waterways byelaws book, which is quite detailed on every aspect of the subject, no where i can remember does it say you should or are required to close gates.

mmmh you are being a bit of an argumentative waterworks (as in argumentative for the sake of it, without actually making a counter argument ("No I'm not!" I hear you say)), are you bored? The C&RT Boaters Handbook says to close gates when you leave. That is the convention on canals. If you don't do that, you are the devil incarnate and a rather argumentative one at that. By the way, if you must argue you could at least remember i before e except after c.

 

According to the EA its for the health and well being of the fishes.

Is that so they don't get trapped in the lock with no dinner? I guess that is a good reason, but I think water control in times of high water is also a reason.

 

Its fine on the GU south of Tring as its just about all river fed.

That was classed as a canal last time I checked.

 

Alright then, canalised river if you want to be picky, or even riverised canal. Trouble is that if you leave the gates open on the lower GU, others less well informed will think you are a tosser, so I prefer to keep the peace and show consideration to other's feelings and just close them, its not that hard!

 

So, OP, the answer is as I said. If you ask the question "does everyone on this forum agree, or even want to agree even though they know its true", the answer is obviously No! That is the nature of bored people on a forum!

Edited January 27, 2013 by nicknorman

[magpie patrick]

Just how may guillotine locks have CRT got? I can't think of more than three, one narrow one at Slaithwaite on the HNC, one at Salterhebble on the Calder and Hebble, and one somewhere on the Rochdale.

 

The advice for the Nene is for EA waters, and a number of those have been converted to pointing doors (mitre gates elsewhere) at both ends

 

In some instances there will be things even an experienced boater won't be aware of, for example one lock on the Marple flight has a bottom paddle deliberately set to not quite close, as if the lock is full when the lock above empties the adjoining garden gets flooded

[Allan(nb Albert)]

Just how may guillotine locks have CRT got? I can't think of more than three, one narrow one at Slaithwaite on the HNC, one at Salterhebble on the Calder and Hebble, and one somewhere on the Rochdale.

 

The advice for the Nene is for EA waters, and a number of those have been converted to pointing doors (mitre gates elsewhere) at both ends

 

In some instances there will be things even an experienced boater won't be aware of, for example one lock on the Marple flight has a bottom paddle deliberately set to not quite close, as if the lock is full when the lock above empties the adjoining garden gets flooded

 

There is one on the Northern Stratford where it is best to leave both ends up

[nicknorman]

There is one on the Northern Stratford where it is best to leave both ends up

True, mind you if you closed them it wouldn't make much difference to the water flow - they are full of holes!

[Capt Ahab]

There is one on the Northern Stratford where it is best to leave both ends up

And Stamp End in Loncoln

[system 4-50]

Different people attach different levels of importance to the various aspects of locking.

For some it is the need to minimise (for them) the physical effort of moving the gates.

For others it is the need to travel quickly, whether for some particular reason or just because they want to move quickly.

For yet others it is the need to observe official guidelines.

Others want to do what their assessment of the best environmental strategy is, such as saving water.

Some will do what they feel pressured to do by their recent experiences of other people's expectations.

And some will do a combination of more than one of the above.

Yes, I'm somewhat bored this evening, does it show?

[the grinch]

And Stamp End in Loncoln

 

is Stamp End Carts responsibility?

[Grace and Favour]

Different people attach different levels of importance to the various aspects of locking.

For some it is the need to minimise (for them) the physical effort of moving the gates.

For others it is the need to travel quickly, whether for some particular reason or just because they want to move quickly.

For yet others it is the need to observe official guidelines.

Others want to do what their assessment of the best environmental strategy is, such as saving water.

Some will do what they feel pressured to do by their recent experiences of other people's expectations.

And some will do a combination of more than one of the above.

 

<<>>

 

 

And some are simply selfish, self-focussed 'erberts whom will promulgate whatever principle suits them at the time

[Nickhlx]

...and I thought you should leave at least one gate open so if an animal fell in, it would have a chance of getting out from a bank outside of the lock. Of course if there is a grave risk of a full lock causing water penetration into the foundations of an adjoining property, and the sign pleads with you to leave it empty, perhaps it would be good to do as it says, and leaving the bottom gate(s) open would seem to be in compliance.

 

However at a busy time of year, I can't see what the issue is as someone will be along soon, and it will be wrong 50% of the time whatever you do, so you may as well leave the exit gate(s) open... IMHO

 

Nick

[ditchcrawler]

...and I thought you should leave at least one gate open so if an animal fell in, it would have a chance of getting out from a bank outside of the lock. Of course if there is a grave risk of a full lock causing water penetration into the foundations of an adjoining property, and the sign pleads with you to leave it empty, perhaps it would be good to do as it says, and leaving the bottom gate(s) open would seem to be in compliance.

 

However at a busy time of year, I can't see what the issue is as someone will be along soon, and it will be wrong 50% of the time whatever you do, so you may as well leave the exit gate(s) open... IMHO

 

Nick

It sure wastes a lot of water when water is short. A good job for a volunteers, go round in the evening, drain as required and attach a notice, return the next morning and remove notice.

[routrax]

If the paddles are left up as well that would mean that the person working the lock would know that they were closed rather than relying on someone else to do it.

 

Never thought of like that, but have had a 'slow to fill' lock turn out to be a not fully closed paddle a few times!

[cotswoldsman]

There is one on the Northern Stratford where it is best to leave both ends up

 

I think CRT have just received funding from The Peoples Lottery to start returning this to a working lock.

Edited January 28, 2013 by cotswoldsman

[magpie patrick]

I'd forgotten Stamp End, the lock is BW, whether the guilotine is I'm not sure

 

John, I hope you are wrong, or at least any restoration is for occasional demonstration purposes. I strongly suspect the Stratford's own water supply is inadequate these days.

[magpie patrick]

I'd forgotten Stamp End, the lock is BW, whether the guilotine is I'm not sure

 

John, I hope you are wrong, or at least any restoration is for occasional demonstration purposes. I strongly suspect the Stratford's own water supply is inadequate these days.

[GSer]

Different people attach different levels of importance to the various aspects of locking.

For some it is the need to minimise (for them) the physical effort of moving the gates.

For others it is the need to travel quickly, whether for some particular reason or just because they want to move quickly.

For yet others it is the need to observe official guidelines.

Others want to do what their assessment of the best environmental strategy is, such as saving water.

Some will do what they feel pressured to do by their recent experiences of other people's expectations.

And some will do a combination of more than one of the above.

Yes, I'm somewhat bored this evening, does it show?

 

 

Well if you choose to make your own decisions on the K&A and leave some locks full that should be left empty, you will soon mess the levels up for yourself and everybody else, its just not an option to leave 'leave empty' locks full, the pound levels are set by the byweir in built into the top paddle gear, if people choose not to follow posted instructions and leave the top gates open or bottom paddles up, the level is then dictated by the bottom gates, this can leave the upper level so high, water exits the pound via side streams and gullies instead of topping up the pound below.

 

Although there must be the odd lock that's drained due to water seepage to adjoining properties, it is certainly not the reason alot of the locks are 'leave empty'.