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WB & France?


Biggles

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Hi Tam

 

Thanks for ignoring the static and posting that very useful information.

 

One question;

 

With the picture above do you mean the turn is above the t-piece and the changing angle below? Or something else?

 

Sorry for the length of this, but so many people talk of taking their craft to the continent and it really is quite important. I'll try to keep it as clear and concise as possible.

 

Matty40s has basically clarified what happens - the barge in the photo is moored and is not using the "fairleads". One fundamental is that in continental locks you work from the boat to the bank - with the automatic locks or even most of those with lock keepers you do not get off, and generally could not easily get off even should you wish to. There is seldom anyone taking your line for you, and the crew will have to get their line(s) ashore by developing their skill at throwing the eye of the line onto a bollard - one reason why it is useful to have decent clear space at the bow, often not available on a NB/WB.

 

With the sort of turbulence you get in many of the locks it is not possible to hold a heavy vessel without taking a turn of your line around something - the boat's bollard most sensibly. Even going downhill you get quite fierce surges, and if you are in a lock with other vessels which are in gear against their bow spring (as in one of my earlier photos on this thread) it will be even more extreme. So you (ideally) have the eye of the line on the bollard on the lock side and you have a turn of the line around the bollard you are stood next to. As the boat drops down the angle on the line changes, and it is very easy for it to now jam against the turns you have (effectively turning itself into a half hitch, for those who know their knots) and for the boat to get hung up. If you originally had the eye of your line on the ship's bollard itself and took a loop of it around the one on the lock side and back the likelihood of getting it all jammed is even worse.

 

So ....... what you want to do is feed the line around something else other than the bollard you have your turns on. In the photo here the line changes its aspect on one of the bent bits welded to the deck, but it then comes to the bollard you are taking turns on at a constant angle. With the paired bollards which are standard fittings on continental barges it will be one of the pair - the one which is furthest away from the bollard on the lockside. Very difficult to put into words, but hopefully it makes sense. Any welder can of course easily bend something heavy enough to serve the purpose. Another possibility would be to weld on a large shackle (without its pin) or even half a really large chain link - anything that is more or less a U shape on its side so the line doesn't jump out of it. To answer Dog House's point, it does not actually need the bollard itself to be on the gunwhale - just something to feed the line around to keep it away from the tee stud.

 

In our system of working locks you are in head gear driving against a fore end line, but it would not work very well if you tried that with the line on the tee stud of a NB/WB - the boat would try to slew across the lock rather than sitting nicely along the wall. However something similar to the photo could be welded as far out to each side of the bow as possible, which would transfer the effort to the side and which would also serve to keep the line away from the stud where you are taking turns. It would also keep the line from wearing on the front corners of the accommodation.

Edited by Tam & Di
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Just to make Dog House really really happy (and convince him he is right) I have just taken this photo in Carcassonne Bassin of the first boat movement since 1 Nov.

 

 

Amethyst.jpg

During our Canal du Midi trip we saw that boat moored up, but unattended. I assume that it had been transported down from England, and wonder what the DVCC means (something something Cruising Club, I would guess). Dows anyone know anything of its history?

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Thank you, Tam for explaining this so clearly. I am never likely to boat in France but I was a bit puzzled by the fact that folk who have been doing it for years, spoke as they did on the subject. Now I understand, thank you

 

haggis

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During our Canal du Midi trip we saw that boat moored up, but unattended. I assume that it had been transported down from England, and wonder what the DVCC means (something something Cruising Club, I would guess). Dows anyone know anything of its history?

 

Douglas Valley Cruising Club according to this -

 

http://www.canalscape.net/Foreign%20Forays/Foreign%20Forays.htm#French Connection

 

The boat is called Amethyst and hales from Appley Bridge.

 

ed to add a bit more -

 

http://www.amethystgroup.net/amethyst/

Edited by The Dog House
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I also intend to take my WB over to France this coming year and would like to thank contributors for their info.

Many things I didn't know or even realise about the locks and such are now apparent .......so thank-you all.

Can I ask one more question.....is there any favoured place in France on canal or river to drop back into the water ?

thanks

 

jules

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The most 'user-friendly' is probably the canal du midi and I would probably choose chantier allemand at Grau d'Agde to go in.

 

Trouble is the connection between the canal du midi and the rest of the French waterways are serious passages.

 

The other 'touristy' waterways (nivenais, bourgogne for example) all have some draught or other challenges.

 

For a general tour Calais is the easiest cranage port but is mainly connected to commercial waterways.

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Chris hi

I will be spending many years cruising around as much of mainland europe as I can.I was just thinking that maybe there is a favoured place which is good for the crane-age and such and is also a 'user friendly' river or canal.

thanks

 

jules

 

Can I mention this resource which I have found invaluable as a source of info. on Europe's waterways.-

 

http://www.eurocanals.com/EuroCanalsGuides/eurocanalsguides.html

 

and this is good reading too.

 

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Through-French-Canals-David-Jefferson/dp/1408103818

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Has anyone ever seen retrofitted twin bollards like those Tam describes on a NB or widebeam NB ? I'm wondering if there would be sufficient strength if there were welded to the gunnels ?

 

I alluded to this earlier on and I also wonder that even if you could fit them and have them strong enough it strikes me they would be a serious tripping hazard on such narrow gunwales....

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. There is seldom anyone taking your line for you, and the crew will have to get their line(s) ashore by developing their skill at throwing the eye of the line onto a bollard - one reason why it is useful to have decent clear space at the bow, often not available on a NB/WB.

 

How big an eye is used on what gauge of rope. Is throwing a bight , like breasting narrow boats, used? Or are the distances up too far.

 

(I know... Vast generalisation )

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Backing plates.

 

The other problem mentioned is the room to operate ropes. It may be the coach roof with sufficient fairleads over the handrail would be an option.

 

I admit to being puzzled in the picture above why they didn't put in a 2nd bollard rather than 2 fairleads.

 

Twin bollards welded onto say a 6mm plate, that plate welded to the existing gunnel and then large bolts through the whole lot to backing plates ?

 

The coach roof maybe a good option, I was wondering about that as people had mentioned the low decks of the NB style causing potential issues. Heidi spent a lot of time up on the roof when we were on the Thames, you'd need a decent safe way up and down from the decks buts that wouldnt be too hard to achieve.

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I also intend to take my WB over to France this coming year and would like to thank contributors for their info.

Many things I didn't know or even realise about the locks and such are now apparent .......so thank-you all.

Can I ask one more question.....is there any favoured place in France on canal or river to drop back into the water ?

thanks

 

jules

 

 

In that case I suggest you join the Barge Assn http://www.barges.org/ for at least one year - it is not restricted to barge owners :) and has an excellent guide to moorings throughout Europe, a good FAQ/Knowledge base and a good (searchable) forum on all cruising/tech matters.

 

Peter

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I admit to being puzzled in the picture above why they didn't put in a 2nd bollard rather than 2 fairleads.

 

I guess they fitted the > < as it was quicker than a second bollard.

 

Another thing in all this is I am NOT talking about mooring. The tee studs or whatever on a WB/NB would be adequate for that (but DON'T tie from the roof or you will get severely tipped over when a large vessel passes). I am talking about something to guide your line away from the bollard or whatever fitting you have that you are taking turns of your line on to keep yourself steady in a lock. Samson posts such as old Severners had - the commercial narrowboats on the Severn - would be ideally positioned. Think of a NB/WB with a front well deck, with you looking forward. The tee stud will generally be at the front of a triangular plate at gunwhale level. I am suggesting some sort of guide at the other two points of that triangle - maybe even a proper conventional fairlead, one on each side of the boat, so where the boat goes up or down in the lock and the rope changes its angle it is out there, not at the tee stud itself.

 

With all the caveats I can muster, for anyone currently in the UK with access to manual locks, go into a lock and put a fore end line on a lockside bollard with you standing in the front well deck (throw it from there if you can, as that is what you will have to do in France etc). Be certain to have plenty of length of line so you can't get hung up, take a turn around the tee stud and put the boat back in head gear to keep it steady, driving against that line and keeping it taut. Just hold the end of your line rather than making it fast, in case you might need to adjust the length. That is what would be happening in continental locks. Now either fill or empty the lock gently, making CERTAIN that the line is not going to get jammed - you should be able to see where a fairlead would need to be positioned to work this way safely.

 

Friesland is 80 tonnes displacement weight, and we use mostly 24mm line both in locks and for mooring. I like 3 strand Nelson spun polypropylene which stands a lot of misuse, floats, and is stiff enough to hold the shape of the eye open when it is thrown. Nylon is a definite no-no because of the stretch. I'm not sure what lighter sizes it comes in, but I'd guess 16-19mm for most WB/NB would be more than ample. About 2m of line bent back on itself and spliced is going to give you an eye about 60cm (2') across, and that goes over just about every bollard we've come across. There are two tunnels about 5-6km each where there is mandatory towage with an electric tug (on the St Quentin and Marne au Rhin canals), and you really need to have or be able to make up a 30m line for the tow if they form part of your route at any time. Don't forget too that the majority of moorings are still set for the standard 40m Freycinet barge, so you need long enough lines for these anyway (including springs).

 

I've been reading reading the DBA forum and it's a bit thin - not surprising as a small association of ex-pats scattered over a wide area.

 

Are there any equivalent French language forums Peter?

 

The French themselves do not go in much for inland boating. Their IWA equivalent is ANPEI, which has several hundred less members than the DBA's 1500+. The DBA forum may currently appear a bit meagre, as a] it has just been completely redesigned, and b] the majority of members are back home at wherever thinking of Christmas and New Year jollies rather than boaty matters. All the posts on the old forum are searchable, and there is a good FAQ section (still being rebuilt I believe). The old forum was fairly restricted to barge type matters, but the new one has a barge life section which will cater for all the stuff not directly related to boats/barges (a bit like the virtual pub)

Edited by Tam & Di
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I've been reading reading the DBA forum and it's a bit thin - not surprising as a small association of ex-pats scattered over a wide area.

 

Are there any equivalent French language forums Peter?

 

Nothing equivalent to my knowledge though I think there is a Dutch forum - Tam would know. A high proportion of the leisure boaters certainly in France are British/Antipodean (members of DBA :) or Dutch.

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Has anyone ever seen retrofitted twin bollards like those Tam describes on a NB or widebeam NB ? I'm wondering if there would be sufficient strength if there were welded to the gunnels ?

Yes on Wandering Snail who has spent several years over there and is back over there again at the moment, its a 70 ft Narrowboat

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In that case I suggest you join the Barge Assn http://www.barges.org/ for at least one year - it is not restricted to barge owners :) and has an excellent guide to moorings throughout Europe, a good FAQ/Knowledge base and a good (searchable) forum on all cruising/tech matters.

 

Peter

 

I may be missing something, but as far as I can see the Knowledge base has a total of around ten entries. Some of the sections have no entries at all. I cannot see a FAQ section.

Edited by brian1042
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I may be missing something, but as far as I can see the Knowledge base has a total of around ten entries. Some of the sections have no entries at all. I cannot see a FAQ section.

 

 

The DBA has recently had a Web Site and forum make over. I think if you dig around you will find lots archived or in the old format forums.

 

Sayin' nowt....

 

 

Really? At last!

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